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Old 01-17-2013, 02:54 PM   #2976
Guzzi 1
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Interesting. Perhaps they should have kept the old wording. That is different than the sticker I have off mine, as you pointed out.

Dumb question: Were there '12's that carried the PZEV designation and some that did not? (Of the standard Impreza's) And if so, were there really fundamental differences or was it just prior to getting the rating? Seriously, for me it is a curiosity thing.


John
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:00 PM   #2977
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I know our '12 PZEV had a carbon media filter after the air filter. There were some reports that other '12s did not have this extra filter.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:00 PM   #2978
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PZEV vehicles are different than non PZEV, some states mandated PZEV for 2012, including California and NY (where I live). It isn't a rating thing, there are substantive changes, including a more expensive catalytic converter, all to reduce emissions.

Mine is a Sport, it does not have a PZEV badge (that is where they stuck the SPORT badge, though newer ones have a PZEV sticker).

Most have either a badge or sticker to indicate if they are or are not PZEV.

Last edited by Zeeper; 01-17-2013 at 03:19 PM.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:09 PM   #2979
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guzzi 1 View Post
Were there '12's that carried the PZEV designation and some that did not? (Of the standard Impreza's) And if so, were there really fundamental differences or was it just prior to getting the rating? Seriously, for me it is a curiosity thing.

John
I can't remember the exact date, but somewhere around March or April 2012 all Imprezas after that were PZEV. Before that some are and some aren't.
My Impreza Sport CVT is PZEV with a manufacture date in Jan 2012 and delivered March 30th. Complete with sticker by the rear wipper on the hatch.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:24 PM   #2980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guzzi 1 View Post
Interesting. Perhaps they should have kept the old wording. That is different than the sticker I have off mine, as you pointed out.

Dumb question: Were there '12's that carried the PZEV designation and some that did not? (Of the standard Impreza's) And if so, were there really fundamental differences or was it just prior to getting the rating? Seriously, for me it is a curiosity thing.


John
different cat, tighter closing injectors are the 2 big ones.
Quote:
It is required on 2012 Imprezas sold in CA, CT, MA, MD, ME, NH, NJ, NY, OR, PA, VT, WA. It costs $300
1. A charcoal canister catches unburned gas left in the engine when it's turned off so it doesn't just evaporate.
2. Fuel injectors that close tighter when they're not in use.
3. A finer mesh in the catalytic converter, as well as optimized placement of its precious metal.
4. The engine's electronic brain is tuned to run the hot at start up to help the catalytic converter heat up so it can start doing its job faster.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:31 PM   #2981
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Keep in mind that whether Impreza owners have a 2012 or 2013, a 5 speed or a CVT, are happy or complaining about their mileage, there is always the following:

The MPG's you are raving or complaining about are almost always within the 'Expected Range for most drivers' printed on the EPA approved Window Sticker of the 2012 Impreza.

What chance do you think you will have filing a complaint with the EPA for your low MPG's, or complaining that Subaru inflated the MPG results of the EPA test, if you are achieving MPG's within that printed range?
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:36 PM   #2982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guzzi 1 View Post
I sincerely believe there must be something to it since this thread has 119 pages and how many posts at this point. Everyone knows there are variables, and I think that certainly some, if not most, are trying to take that into account.
i don't think so. some people such as stevehnm believe they can do no wrong and it is never the driver, the locale, the driver, the temperature, the driver, the fuel blend, the driver, etc etc etc. there are a lot of different factors that affect mpg. i bet you can drive your friends new car and get completely different mpg on her normal commute.

most of the factors i just posted arent actually included in the epa's testing. it is a flawed system, and if you took the numbers as guarantees I'm sorry you ( in general, not you specifically) are gullible and deserve what you get.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/why_differ.shtml
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:54 PM   #2983
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They also charge you a premium for putting that PZEV sticker on there.
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:04 PM   #2984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foghelmut View Post
They also charge you a premium for putting that PZEV sticker on there.
true, it is an extra 300 that i didn't want to spend, but I got my order in 2 days too late to not get PZEV
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:36 PM   #2985
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I have been following this thread for the past few months now and I think it's time to give my two cents. My wife and I own a 12 Impreza sport with a CVT we purchased last May and it currently has 9500 miles. When we were shopping for a new car we had never even considered a Subaru until I found out the improvements that had been made to the fuel economy on the new Impreza. With that said we both agree that we regret our purchase decision. We live in Buffalo NY and this is my wife's primary vehicle. Her commute to work consists of 10 miles each way with about 70 percent of that on the highway. Over the last few months because of the cold temperatures she has been receiving an abysmal 21 - 23 mpg and even in the summer never got above 26 on her commute, hand calculated. Please know that her last vehicle was a 2000 Acura Integra 5 speed and on the same commute she would average at least 26 mpg year-round and that car was rated for 22/28. The best we've ever gotten out of this vehicle was 31 mpg and that was over the summer 100% highway on a trip to NYC. Just like everyone else I love the vehicle it drives great and looks sporty but the fuel economy sucks.

I brought this concern up with my local dealer and he admitted that others had expressed concern. He had already contacted Subaru directly and their response was to wait until 10,000 miles for the engine to fully break in. I'm not stupid and I know that when I hit 10,000 miles the car won't magically increase fuel efficiency. I have another appointment with the dealer next week and I plan to discuss my complaints with them further. They brag about their high customer satisfaction numbers so I will see what they are willing to do to keep us satisfied.
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:16 PM   #2986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012ISport View Post
I have been following this thread for the past few months now and I think it's time to give my two cents. My wife and I own a 12 Impreza sport with a CVT we purchased last May and it currently has 9500 miles. When we were shopping for a new car we had never even considered a Subaru until I found out the improvements that had been made to the fuel economy on the new Impreza. With that said we both agree that we regret our purchase decision. We live in Buffalo NY and this is my wife's primary vehicle. Her commute to work consists of 10 miles each way with about 70 percent of that on the highway. Over the last few months because of the cold temperatures she has been receiving an abysmal 21 - 23 mpg and even in the summer never got above 26 on her commute, hand calculated. Please know that her last vehicle was a 2000 Acura Integra 5 speed and on the same commute she would average at least 26 mpg year-round and that car was rated for 22/28. The best we've ever gotten out of this vehicle was 31 mpg and that was over the summer 100% highway on a trip to NYC. Just like everyone else I love the vehicle it drives great and looks sporty but the fuel economy sucks.

I brought this concern up with my local dealer and he admitted that others had expressed concern. He had already contacted Subaru directly and their response was to wait until 10,000 miles for the engine to fully break in. I'm not stupid and I know that when I hit 10,000 miles the car won't magically increase fuel efficiency. I have another appointment with the dealer next week and I plan to discuss my complaints with them further. They brag about their high customer satisfaction numbers so I will see what they are willing to do to keep us satisfied.
Excellent Post - Thank you. quick question. What are you hoping for when you return to the dealer? Trade in, diff car etc... Please let us know the outcome. Ty
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:44 PM   #2987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwgti123 View Post

Excellent Post - Thank you. quick question. What are you hoping for when you return to the dealer? Trade in, diff car etc... Please let us know the outcome. Ty
Well for starters I would expect some sort of explanation other than wait until 10,000 miles and see if it gets better. If they can't give me one then I would expect that they would keep the car for a few days to drive it around. If they experience the same crappy fuel economy as I do and I'm sure they will then we know something is wrong with my vehicle. I would also love to drive another Impreza in the meantime to see if I get the same results.
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:54 PM   #2988
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Took a 42 mile round trip through rural areas, small towns and a drive-thru. Winter fuel, winter tires, 32 MPH average.

39.0 MPG
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:54 PM   #2989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander Keen View Post
Took a 42 mile round trip through rural areas, small towns and a drive-thru. Winter fuel, winter tires, 32 MPH average.

39.0 MPG
but you have a 5sp so you don't matter
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:00 PM   #2990
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Quote:
but you have a 5sp so you don't matter
Sorry to spoil the mood.
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:53 AM   #2991
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cvt

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Old 01-18-2013, 08:57 AM   #2992
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Stop fighting fiction with facts!

There is no way mileage could possibly vary, meet, or ever exceed EPA numbers (especially with a CVT, which I don't have, so I cannot talk about your CVT, that you do have, meeting or exceeding EPA estimates).

La La La La, fingers in ears, mumbling incoherently, Subaru EPA conspiracy....spreadsheets!
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:33 AM   #2993
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I took mine to the dealer yesterday and they did the reflash update for both the cvt and the ecu. The only difference I notice is that is seems to coast faster and it doesn't seem like the engine/transmission is causing as much drag. We'll see if my gas mileage improves.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:23 AM   #2994
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myrt1987 View Post
cvt
41.4 mpg over 363 miles, that's impressive! Please provide more information on how you achieved that average mpg. Driving conditions? Gas e10 or ethanol free? Outside temp? Average speed?

I'm confident that those numbers could not be reached with my Impreza. Like previously stated my wife and I took a road trip to NYC last summer and only got 30.5 mpg cruising at 65 mph. Last month we took a trip to New Jersey to help with the hurricane Sandy clean up and could not exceed 30 mpg cruising at 70 mph.

Could someone please explain how 1 person could get 40 + mpg and I can barely get above 30?
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:32 AM   #2995
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You mentioned many of the variables in your first paragraph above. They all contribute.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:53 AM   #2996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012ISport View Post
41.4 mpg over 363 miles, that's impressive! Please provide more information on how you achieved that average mpg. Driving conditions? Gas e10 or ethanol free? Outside temp? Average speed?

I'm confident that those numbers could not be reached with my Impreza. Like previously stated my wife and I took a road trip to NYC last summer and only got 30.5 mpg cruising at 65 mph. Last month we took a trip to New Jersey to help with the hurricane Sandy clean up and could not exceed 30 mpg cruising at 70 mph.

Could someone please explain how 1 person could get 40 + mpg and I can barely get above 30?
I could get a photo of my cvt imp gauges showing 70mpg if I reset just as I crested Steven's pass and did the 20 mile stretch of downhill on the east side of the mountains.
Of course it dropped as low as 14 mpg getting up to that pass.
A snapshot is pretty meaninglessness.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:55 AM   #2997
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I will reference my post http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...0#post36888210

42.3 mpg displayed over 547.5 miles. The video link is now broken, but I can update it if there are doubts.

It's all about combining E0, pure highway driving, average speed 60-65 mph, and roadway that allows you to just set it in manual mode in 6th gear.

Of course, it is also possible to get terrible mpg. This thing sucks down gas like no other before it has warmed up.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:15 AM   #2998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thom52 View Post
I could get a photo of my cvt imp gauges showing 70mpg if I reset just as I crested Steven's pass and did the 20 mile stretch of downhill on the east side of the mountains.
Of course it dropped as low as 14 mpg getting up to that pass.
A snapshot is pretty meaninglessness.
No it's not, if the snapshot includes a significant number of accumulated miles on the trip odometer.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:16 AM   #2999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xafen View Post
I will reference my post http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...0#post36888210

42.3 mpg displayed over 547.5 miles. The video link is now broken, but I can update it if there are doubts.

It's all about combining E0, pure highway driving, average speed 60-65 mph, and roadway that allows you to just set it in manual mode in 6th gear.

Of course, it is also possible to get terrible mpg. This thing sucks down gas like no other before it has warmed up.
Well in our case we took a 400 mile trip to NYC last summer when temps were above 70F. We took the I 90 the whole way which is fairly flat. We filled up with regular unleaded which can contain up to 10% ethanol and for testing purposes we set the cruise at 65mph which is also the speed limit. Our outcome was a horrible 30.5 mpg hand calculated, display showed 32.7 mpg. Now other than using ethanol free gas which may help a little but is not available how could we possibly achieve the epa estimate.

And yes our mpg gauge is consistently off 1.5 -2.0 mpg which is another issue I have with the car.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:17 AM   #3000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thom52 View Post
I could get a photo of my cvt imp gauges showing 70mpg if I reset just as I crested Steven's pass and did the 20 mile stretch of downhill on the east side of the mountains.
Of course it dropped as low as 14 mpg getting up to that pass.
A snapshot is pretty meaninglessness.
I totally agree. That is why the best snapshot is the 1.5 million miles tracked on Fuelly. Overall average of 27.7mpg combined. Mix of 5 Speeds and CVT's.

Within 1-2 mpg of the average expected for 5 speeds and CVT's (5 speeds=28, CVT=30).
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