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Old 04-17-2012, 11:47 AM   #426
hemophilic
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Odo: 2211

About 50/50 city/hwy
TripA: 347.7 miles
TripA avg mph: 27
TripA avg mpg: 30.0
12.463 gallons
Actual mpg: 27.89

TripB: 2090 miles
TripB avg mph: 25
TripB avg mpg: 28.8
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Old 04-17-2012, 12:01 PM   #427
nubsub
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemophilic View Post
Odo: 2211

About 50/50 city/hwy
TripA: 347.7 miles
TripA avg mph: 27
TripA avg mpg: 30.0
12.463 gallons
Actual mpg: 27.89

TripB: 2090 miles
TripB avg mph: 25
TripB avg mpg: 28.8
that's a pretty big discrepancy (2.1 mpg). is that what you have seen typically? have you checked your odometer/speedometer vs mile markers and GPS? (i've been meaning to do the latter)

my first tank was off by about 1 mpg, but i think i'll only know the real discrepancy after several more tanks.
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:21 PM   #428
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I just filled up yesterday and mine was 2.4 MPG off. The delta seems to vary depending on tank. On my first fill up it was almost spot on.
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:26 PM   #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ST Eye View Post
I just filled up yesterday and mine was 2.4 MPG off. The delta seems to vary depending on tank. On my first fill up it was almost spot on.
what are you seeing on average? i'm guessing there is a lot of variability depending on there being the same fill up point for each tank.

of course, speculation still abounds on how the onboard computer calculates mileage. i'm guessing there is somehow some cumulative error in some form of instantaneous average being added up that accounts for the discrepancy.
i've heard of some cars (ie, other manufacturers) being spot on in the long haul. fwiw, my wife's prius is always seems to be few mpg optimistic (3-5%), but the last tank was somehow pessimistic by a few mpg.
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:31 PM   #430
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On average I am seeing a 1-1.5 MPG difference.
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:44 PM   #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nubsub

that's a pretty big discrepancy (2.1 mpg). is that what you have seen typically? have you checked your odometer/speedometer vs mile markers and GPS? (i've been meaning to do the latter)

my first tank was off by about 1 mpg, but i think i'll only know the real discrepancy after several more tanks.
The last 2 tanks have been about 2 mpg off. Previous were 1 to 1.5.

My GPS said 71 MPH at 70 MPH indicated.
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Old 04-17-2012, 04:16 PM   #432
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Just filled up for the first time

avg mpg per trip: 26.1
avg mpg hand calculated: 25.2
distance:275.1

It look 10.8 gallons. A couple things to keep in mind.
1. I fill up around a quarter tank
2. When I picked the car up, it just had just moved off full, so it wasn't a full tank.

I'm happy with the mpg's especially since my other car got between 14-17 and a couple tanks with 11. I expect the next to be better since it's filled all the way up.
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Old 04-17-2012, 05:58 PM   #433
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Oh yeah.
You just wait it'll do much better. The drivetrain needs to loosen up over a thousand miles or so. And check your tire pressures!
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Old 04-17-2012, 06:11 PM   #434
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Oh yeah.
You just wait it'll do much better. The drivetrain needs to loosen up over a thousand miles or so. And check your tire pressures!
Yeah definitely check tire pressures, because you could be like me and drive the car home with 45+ PSI in each tire
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Old 04-17-2012, 06:20 PM   #435
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Thanks guys! Lovin' my car so far. Granted I have just under 300 miles, but no complaints so far!

I'll check the PSI. 45 is ridiculous! I work at a car dealer and they always have to take air out because they say for most cars, they have 40psi.
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:45 PM   #436
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A lot of dealers don't PDI the car correctly. The cars are shipped with around 45 PSI from the factory to prevent flat spots.
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Old 04-17-2012, 11:28 PM   #437
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My car came with 45 psi in each tire.
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Old 04-17-2012, 11:50 PM   #438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79letour View Post
My car came with 45 psi in each tire.
Lazy techs. Out of the 4 Subarus I have bought new, all of them had over inflated tires. Meh.
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Old 04-19-2012, 05:47 PM   #439
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i had an interesting conversation last night with some friends who bought the 2012 Elantra. As has been noted in some previous posts, if you look at the Hyundai discussion forums, many of them are very disappointed in their mileage numbers compared with what EPA estimates suggest (29/40mpg): the Impreza owners who are disappointed in their real world mileage, are not alone.

my friends who drive very similar roads to me (although i think a little more skewed to city driving (SF Bay Area suburbs) than me) are only getting around 25-26mpg after 1500 miles on their car. i've ridden with them, and know that they aren't lead footed and drive pretty gently.

for their same driving, they were get around 27-28 mpg in their 2000 Civic AT which i think, using the revised 2008 standards was rated at 26/32 mpg by EPA standards.

for comparison (and i didn't want to rub it in) i used to get around 30 mpg overall on my 2000 Civic with MT (rated 27/32 using revised 2008 EPA standards). i'm still on my 2nd tank of gas (so expect to see things climb), i'm geting 28-29 mpg on this tank and i think its more representative of my typical driving patterns (had a bit more freeway on my first tank which the compute reported as 30.0 and i calculated as 29.1).

as i've said before, i'm happy enough with my mileage since i was aiming to buy a car with as good or better mileage than my old Civic. i have yet to test the Impreza on a pure highway trip (will do so next month), and i will be very interested to see if i can get in the high 30's or low 40's with 65-70mph speeds <which i regularly got with my civic>

anyway, compared to the Elantra, i think Impreza owners are doing pretty well.

however, if you compare to what people are reporting for the new Honda Civic (which has other deficiencies and issues, else i would have bought one being a long time honda guy), the Honda Civic numbers on Fuelly.com and other sites suggest it is exceeding EPA numbers with ease (EPA is 32/39 for the non-HF, AT models) and people reporting many highway trips in the mid to high 40's. this sort of performance is consistent with what i've gotten out of my previous honda's)

what makes the Honda Civic different than the Impreza and Elantra? i find it hard to believe that Subaru and Hyundai are "gaming the system," but there has to be some explanation (given a big enough sampling to show that the Civic is doing better -- i'm only using Fuelly as indication, but i'm hoping that's enough of a sampling).

anyway, just a random thought to share... and maybe it's meaningless without more data since we are always dealing with a pretty small sample size. for the record, i'm happy with my car and the mileage has been ok, even without break in. however, i can see why (based on numbers reported here and in other forums) some people in the Elantra and Impreza owner groups might be pretty disappointed in their real world mileages.
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Old 04-19-2012, 06:03 PM   #440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nubsub View Post
what makes the Honda Civic different than the Impreza and Elantra? i find it hard to believe that Subaru and Hyundai are "gaming the system," but there has to be some explanation (given a big enough sampling to show that the Civic is doing better -- i'm only using Fuelly as indication, but i'm hoping that's enough of a sampling).
Honda has almost always had lower than real world MPG number because they design the car for real world efficiency. The people buying Hondas are often repeat buyers and they KNOW the cars get good MPG. Heck, the Honda Fit has some models that are rated at only 33 MPG highway, thought you would be pressed to get the car to do that poorly unless you filled the back with concrete. But when you run the car through the EPA cycle, it does poorly.

Gaming the system is very real. Companies need high MPG number to sell cars, and they will sacrifice real world performance to get a better number on the EPA testing. In the past Honda has complained that EPA testing was fantasy, and VW jumped in on those complaints as well because their TDI models get lower than expected ratings. Also keep in mind that EPA numbers are POST-correction values. The tests are all done in a flat controlled lab environment. It is easy to make some small tweaks to enable the car to perform well in testing when you know ahead of time EXACTLY what the test is, and you know doing well on that test could mean +40% sales. The cars all test much higher than the window sticker, then they get knocked down from the testing value to simulate real world speed/weather/hills. What they should be doing is testing the cars in real world conditions (or at least with varied temps, E10 gas, and a system to emulate hills with dyno rollers), then posting those numbers on the window.

How do you think Hyundai sales would be is their Window sticker for the Elantra said 29 MPG HWY? They would be in the dumpster. Instead Hyundai was marketing the crap out of the fact that every model of Elantra was rated 40 MPG highway.

Also if you want to see how important estimated MPG is, check out some of the Impreza ads. The ones I have seen only show 2 things at the end of the commercials. "Symmetrical AWD" and "36 MPG". That is literally the only think Subaru tells people about the car in those commercials. And Impreza sales are at a record high, since it is easier to sell a car rated for 36 MPG than it is to sell one rated at 27 MPG (previous Impreza).

Last edited by ocellaris; 04-19-2012 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 04-19-2012, 10:22 PM   #441
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yea, i have done mix driving of city and freeway about even with both so 50/50. the car said 30.3 and it was pretty accurate last time but this time it was 3 mpg off, well 3 ish. 27.46
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Old 04-19-2012, 11:55 PM   #442
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Apologies in advance if this question was already asked, but have folks noticed any difference in MPG based on brand and/or grade of fuel? I would think you'd get slightly better MPG using Premium since the knock control wouldn't have to kick in so much. Perhaps I'm wrong.

Also, I am going to pick up my Sport Limited in a few days and was wondering if I should just start it out with premium 93 or with 87. Thoughts?
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Old 04-20-2012, 12:44 AM   #443
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it does improve but it is not worth the price. the percentage increase in price is not the same with the increase in mpg.
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Old 04-20-2012, 01:17 AM   #444
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also notice after i filled up, it usually says my range is 420 every time i fill up and i get pretty constant mpg 27-30 but today it says 380 and i fill up at the same pump at the same station.
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Old 04-20-2012, 02:06 AM   #445
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Interesting points.

You are right. Hyundai and Subaru make a huge deal about their highway mileage ratings. Even Honda, in the past has until recently perhaps when the competition has caught up to them. Even Honda went to the extremes of making the HF model which could cross the 40 mpg barrier.

But I do wonder about explicitly designing a car to do well in the EPA tests vs just making a car more efficient. Probably the truth is somewhere in between...

Finally, I definitely bought the impreza with the mileage ratings in mind. If it still had the previous generations mileage numbers, I would have stuck with the civic even though I think the 2012 version is in so many ways inferior to my 2000 model.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ocellaris

Honda has almost always had lower than real world MPG number because they design the car for real world efficiency. The people buying Hondas are often repeat buyers and they KNOW the cars get good MPG. Heck, the Honda Fit has some models that are rated at only 33 MPG highway, thought you would be pressed to get the car to do that poorly unless you filled the back with concrete. But when you run the car through the EPA cycle, it does poorly.

Gaming the system is very real. Companies need high MPG number to sell cars, and they will sacrifice real world performance to get a better number on the EPA testing. In the past Honda has complained that EPA testing was fantasy, and VW jumped in on those complaints as well because their TDI models get lower than expected ratings. Also keep in mind that EPA numbers are POST-correction values. The tests are all done in a flat controlled lab environment. It is easy to make some small tweaks to enable the car to perform well in testing when you know ahead of time EXACTLY what the test is, and you know doing well on that test could mean +40% sales. The cars all test much higher than the window sticker, then they get knocked down from the testing value to simulate real world speed/weather/hills. What they should be doing is testing the cars in real world conditions (or at least with varied temps, E10 gas, and a system to emulate hills with dyno rollers), then posting those numbers on the window.

How do you think Hyundai sales would be is their Window sticker for the Elantra said 29 MPG HWY? They would be in the dumpster. Instead Hyundai was marketing the crap out of the fact that every model of Elantra was rated 40 MPG highway.

Also if you want to see how important estimated MPG is, check out some of the Impreza ads. The ones I have seen only show 2 things at the end of the commercials. "Symmetrical AWD" and "36 MPG". That is literally the only think Subaru tells people about the car in those commercials. And Impreza sales are at a record high, since it is easier to sell a car rated for 36 MPG than it is to sell one rated at 27 MPG (previous Impreza).
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Old 04-20-2012, 09:56 AM   #446
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just another update...with my Limited HB CVT, PVEZ approaching 11K.....with my commute of 53 miles one way Im now averaging between 31-32 MPG per tank now......it still seems to be slightly improving as we are entering spring/summer.........commute is probably 70/30 hwy city......with hwy spds between 50-75 depending on the stretch of road........
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Old 04-20-2012, 10:03 AM   #447
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Kool beans
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:01 AM   #448
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I just had the transmission re-flash done on my 12 Impreza as I was told it would improve the daily driveablity and reduce the somewhat harsh downs shifts that I had going down hill when taking my foot off the gas and coasting. Well yes no more of the harsh down shifts and my combination gas mileage has gone up from 31 mpg to 34 mpg BUT my highway mileage had gone from 36.7 to 31.5!!!!!!! Yes I'm going 65 to 70 mph but WOW!!!!!!!!! Oh and once it's done it can not be undone.
Just an heads up......
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:07 AM   #449
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Originally Posted by buran288 View Post
I just had the transmission re-flash done on my 12 Impreza as I was told it would improve the daily driveablity and reduce the somewhat harsh downs shifts that I had going down hill when taking my foot off the gas and coasting. Well yes no more of the harsh down shifts and my combination gas mileage has gone up from 31 mpg to 34 mpg BUT my highway mileage had gone from 36.7 to 31.5!!!!!!! Yes I'm going 65 to 70 mph but WOW!!!!!!!!! Oh and once it's done it can not be undone.
Just an heads up......
How long ago did you have the flash done?
How many miles since?
What does RPM look like at 70mph? Mine is just a hair over 2k rpm at 70mph.
Do the shift points look any different?
How does it behave during warmup?
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:20 AM   #450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buran288 View Post
I just had the transmission re-flash done on my 12 Impreza as I was told it would improve the daily driveablity and reduce the somewhat harsh downs shifts that I had going down hill when taking my foot off the gas and coasting. Well yes no more of the harsh down shifts and my combination gas mileage has gone up from 31 mpg to 34 mpg BUT my highway mileage had gone from 36.7 to 31.5!!!!!!! Yes I'm going 65 to 70 mph but WOW!!!!!!!!! Oh and once it's done it can not be undone.
Just an heads up......
So they came out with a new flash that destroyed your highway MPG? Ugh... Or is that a typo?

Is there a TSB for this yet?
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