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Old 05-22-2012, 11:07 PM   #1051
SleepNMnky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pxpaulx View Post
Why not use the EPA's definition? it can be found here:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml

Note that of the 2 original (city, highway) and 3 new (high speed, air conditioning and cold temperature), only 2 are run with the engine starting at cold temperature - the 'city' test and the 'cold temperature' test.

The EPA tests outline in those tests that they consider an engine to be cold for the first 505 seconds of the drive, in a transitional temperature phase for another 864 seconds, and only completely warmed up for the final 505 seconds of the test period. That is a full 8 1/2 minutes of cold engine, and another 14 1/2 minutes of transitional temperature. Something to recall when someone calls their city driving a random number of 5 or 10 minute drives in stop and go - significantly more harsh conditions than the official city test criteria.
these points are crucial... my "city" drives that I encounter would not meet these tests for that reason. that's why i call them "hard city" or "extreme city" driving. i'm not sure what the technical term would be but i wish there was some type of figures out for this car with that type of drive for me to see some comparisons even if it wasn't included in the EPA sticker estimates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pxpaulx
Unrelated but a kind of sad testament to the relatively overall disapointing mpg coming from the impreza, just filled my 2nd tank in our new fiat (rated 30/38), over 295 miles averaged 39.4mpg - here is the fuelly link. Both cars are driven in pretty much the same overall style, yet over 5K miles we've only managed 28.6mpg from the impreza, and are at 37.6 with the fiat after only 2 tanks (and from what I've read it will get better after 2-3K as well). The impreza is still the best AWD car for mpgs out there, it just is what it is I guess.
i don't understand why you keep throwing your fiat numbers in here. it muddies the issue & there's so many reasons why the fiat would get better miles that i'm sure you're aware of. i'm guilty of it myself in the past when saying i could easily surpass EPA #s on my old integra way back when this thread started. i'll give you that. i think there was a consumer reports article out linked to on one of these 2 that shows they were able to get +1-4 MPG on certain models and their testing put them at -1-2 MPG on the 2012 subaru impreza. so saying that this model's EPA ratings are hard to hit are one thing, but seeing a fiat or civic or prius's MPG numbers doesn't really have any relevance here.
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Old 05-22-2012, 11:20 PM   #1052
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New car, excited about it! I'll refrain from mentioning it going forward

I'd love to see what I could get out of a manual impreza considering the lower epa rating, I think real world it woolf probably end up doing better than the cvt.
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Old 05-23-2012, 12:36 AM   #1053
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We are getting extreme resistance and run around from ALL the local dealers, trying to discourage us from trying the TSBs. Which may already be applied to our January build.
It really seems as though we have an idling problem, with a very rough and fast and long idle. Staying at 1500-2000RPM for a long time, even in warm weather. And it barely drops below 1000 even when warm. Local dealers don't see that as a problem either.
This is just what our cars do for some reason. My two 2012 Imprezas have the same cold start you are describing. Just curious, do you have a PZEV?
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Old 05-23-2012, 12:46 AM   #1054
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Originally Posted by pxpaulx View Post
New car, excited about it! I'll refrain from mentioning it going forward

I'd love to see what I could get out of a manual impreza considering the lower epa rating, I think real world it woolf probably end up doing better than the cvt.
Glad you're enjoying the new car nonetheless.

It seems to me that those with the MT are happy with their mileage. Most of the complaints are from us CVT drivers.
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Old 05-23-2012, 12:50 AM   #1055
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ST Eye View Post
This is just what our cars do for some reason. My two 2012 Imprezas have the same cold start you are describing. Just curious, do you have a PZEV?
yes, Washington state is a PZEV state., and its a CVT, in case you aren't reading the avatar on the side.
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Old 05-23-2012, 01:02 AM   #1056
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This could be something funky with PZEV cars.
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Old 05-23-2012, 01:07 AM   #1057
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Originally Posted by Penguin44 View Post
That's pretty sweet.. I haven't done a real highway drive yet. And I have to remember that the information displayed is an average over the tank not actual that we hand calculated. So an 8l Avg is still way better then the 11.6 I was getting in my 08. There were a few times on my last tank that I did some aggressive driving so even though my Avg didn't drop it used more fuel obviously. Love this car.
Wow... I had to look this up. So you fix the distance (100 km) and see what volume of fuel you need to get you there... eh? Lower number is better. Down here we fix the volume of fuel (1 gal) and see what distance it will push us... Higher number is better. From so close to home, another way of looking at things.
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:24 AM   #1058
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Originally Posted by chicagocpo View Post
Wow... I had to look this up. So you fix the distance (100 km) and see what volume of fuel you need to get you there... eh? Lower number is better. Down here we fix the volume of fuel (1 gal) and see what distance it will push us... Higher number is better. From so close to home, another way of looking at things.
I remember the UK switched to the first system a few years ago. It's supposed to allow the average consumer to better understand the distance to fuel ratio. Kind of makes sense. However, I'm not sure I have a preference, although I do think the gallons per distance measurement would be handy.
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:32 AM   #1059
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Hey all,

just catching up, but I tried cruise control recently on my "somewhat hilly drive" and I find that the engine braking is much less in cruise control until it reaches a point then it kick in, but it seems worse with CC on. I'm hoping they can figure this all out at some point.
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Old 05-23-2012, 11:14 AM   #1060
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Originally Posted by SZRimaging View Post
I remember the UK switched to the first system a few years ago. It's supposed to allow the average consumer to better understand the distance to fuel ratio. Kind of makes sense. However, I'm not sure I have a preference, although I do think the gallons per distance measurement would be handy.
For US vehicles, fueleconomy.gov allows you to choose between measurements.
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Old 05-23-2012, 11:19 AM   #1061
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Originally Posted by hemophilic View Post
For US vehicles, fueleconomy.gov allows you to choose between measurements.
Didn't realize that. Thanks!
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Old 05-23-2012, 11:38 AM   #1062
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I just filled up (added on Fuelly).

Dash Gauge trip Avg MPG = 32.1 mpg
Actual fill up calculation = 28.6 mpg

about 300 miles on the car for this fill-up.

obviously the dash gauge is optimistic, or the odometer is underreporting the miles, or both.

Not that I am complaining, MPG is climbing pretty steadily and I am now exceeding the combined MPG shown on the sticker (for my everyday driving which is neither highway, nor city, but mostly country roads, hilly, some stop lights).

Last edited by Zeeper; 05-23-2012 at 02:39 PM.
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Old 05-23-2012, 12:12 PM   #1063
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Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
I just filled up (added on Fuelly).

Dash Gauge trip Avg MPG = 32.1 mpg
Actual fill up calculation = 28.6 mpg

obviously the dash gauge is optimistic, or the odometer is underreporting the miles.

Not that I am complaining, MPG is climbing pretty steadily and I am now exceeding the combined MPG shown on the sticker (for my everyday driving which is neither highway, nor city, but mostly country roads, hilly, some stop lights.
i continue to find the discrepancies weird...both in terms of odometer and dash gauge mileage.

as i have noted, except for my highway tank (90%), all of my other thanks are 1-2mpg overpredicted by the gas gauge, but i have found that my odometer is off in the 2-5% range...most recently, the long drive suggesting a 4% underprediction.

even those these two errors appear to cancel each other out (at least in the right direction), i would have thought they should be correlated. ie, if the odometer is underpredicting distance traveled and dash computer is using that and some calibrated fuel consumption, one would think that the dash computer would be underpredicting mileage, not overpredicting it.

of course, then there is the anecdotal evidence from my one primary highway trip and someone else's which suggests that the dash computer underpredicts mileage on highway tanks, but overpredicts city biased tanks.
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Old 05-23-2012, 12:20 PM   #1064
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
I just filled up (added on Fuelly).

Dash Gauge trip Avg MPG = 32.1 mpg
Actual fill up calculation = 28.6 mpg

obviously the dash gauge is optimistic, or the odometer is underreporting the miles.

Not that I am complaining, MPG is climbing pretty steadily and I am now exceeding the combined MPG shown on the sticker (for my everyday driving which is neither highway, nor city, but mostly country roads, hilly, some stop lights.
I drive close to the same type of roads as you about 95% of my trips. Since it's niether hwy nor city, I keep my hwy to city ratio at 50% on Fuelly (makes sense to me). I'm curious if you ever adjust your hwy to city ratio one way or the other and what your reasoning is.
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Old 05-23-2012, 01:07 PM   #1065
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Originally Posted by Suby Noobie View Post
I drive close to the same type of roads as you about 95% of my trips. Since it's niether hwy nor city, I keep my hwy to city ratio at 50% on Fuelly (makes sense to me). I'm curious if you ever adjust your hwy to city ratio one way or the other and what your reasoning is.
I don't really care to try and guess any better than I did. I know it may be important to others (for comparison or otherwise) but I am only interested in the numbers I see after I fill up the tank and divide the gallons used into the miles driven (I never top off the tank when I fill it).

I don't drive a lot of city driving, and not a lot of highway, I drive my routes which are more like "country road" driving, but the EPA does not measure that (though for this car it seems to be right around the EPA combined number)

Last edited by Zeeper; 05-23-2012 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 05-23-2012, 01:44 PM   #1066
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Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
I don't really care to try an guess any better than I did. I know it may be important to others (for comparison or otherwise) but I am only interested in the numbers I see after I fill up the tank and divide the gallons used into the miles driven.

I don't drive a lot of city driving, and not a lot of highway, I drive my routes which are more like "country road" driving, but the EPA does not measure that (though for this car it seems to be right around the EPA combined number)
in my experience, unless its a mostly highway tank that happens on one day, it's hard to accurately pinpoint a good highway/city ratio when i post on fuelly. i can only ballpark the estimate and think back to when i've been on the highway. i actually don't include a few of my 1-2 mile blasts on the highway as i think those really don't help the mileage much due to the rapid acceleration and deceleration. in the end, from a personal point of view, i'm interested in my typical tank (which is probably on the order of 75% city (suburbia) and 25% highway (although all of these are still under 10mi adventures so not really optimal for mileage due to acceleration and deceleration and potential traffic) which so far has been in the 29mpg range. i also, like many others, am interested in my pure highway performance (which doesn't happen more than a few times a year) for interest sake as well as range, convenience, and cost for any lengthy trip.
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Old 05-23-2012, 02:30 PM   #1067
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Originally Posted by nubsub View Post
in my experience, unless its a mostly highway tank that happens on one day, it's hard to accurately pinpoint a good highway/city ratio when i post on fuelly. i can only ballpark the estimate and think back to when i've been on the highway. i actually don't include a few of my 1-2 mile blasts on the highway as i think those really don't help the mileage much due to the rapid acceleration and deceleration. in the end, from a personal point of view, i'm interested in my typical tank (which is probably on the order of 75% city (suburbia) and 25% highway (although all of these are still under 10mi adventures so not really optimal for mileage due to acceleration and deceleration and potential traffic) which so far has been in the 29mpg range. i also, like many others, am interested in my pure highway performance (which doesn't happen more than a few times a year) for interest sake as well as range, convenience, and cost for any lengthy trip.
Agreed. That's why I try to include my avg mph. I think there is some value in that number. I don't know if it correlates directly. Maybe I'll spreadsheet my data...
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Old 05-23-2012, 02:35 PM   #1068
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Agreed. That's why I try to include my avg mph. I think there is some value in that number. I don't know if it correlates directly. Maybe I'll spreadsheet my data...
yep! that's what i'm doing in my comment fields on Fuelly so after i have more data, i will plot it up.

definitely ,with a a few data points, has some correlation. higher speeds mean higher mileage although all of my tanks seem to fall into the 26-29mph range.

midtank, i've seen things like 22mph which gives me my lowest mileage on the computer (25-26mpg).

my one highway trip of 90% highway (driving 60-65mph), but included 10% city with very slow stop and go (i'm guessing 10mph average), i had a 48mph average.
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Old 05-23-2012, 07:24 PM   #1069
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the sticker on my 5sp says 33 highway, but underneath states most users will see 27-29
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Old 05-23-2012, 09:34 PM   #1070
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My wife was really happy, she said she got 45 on her way to work last weekend (all highway for about 30 miles after a fillup). It dropped to 35 on her way home because of traffic. I was really impressed, she usually gets terrible mileage. I took her car the other day and saw she was on average MPH not MPG. Still we are getting 26 on her very short trips to the commuter van (3 miles round trip) and shopping runs. I can get 29 - 30 to and from work, all 2 lane roads with a max of 45-50 mph. Overall we are pleased.
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Old 05-23-2012, 09:39 PM   #1071
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My wife was really happy, she said she got 45 on her way to work last weekend (all highway for about 30 miles after a fillup). It dropped to 35 on her way home because of traffic. I was really impressed, she usually gets terrible mileage. I took her car the other day and saw she was on average MPH not MPG. Still we are getting 26 on her very short trips to the commuter van (3 miles round trip) and shopping runs. I can get 29 - 30 to and from work, all 2 lane roads with a max of 45-50 mph. Overall we are pleased.
women
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Old 05-23-2012, 11:42 PM   #1072
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Originally Posted by flyboy1100 View Post
the sticker on my 5sp says 33 highway, but underneath states most users will see 27-29
That's so sketchy. Why would they boast 33 MPG Hwy when "most" users will only see an average of 28 MPG Hwy. I know they probably want to make the new Impreza seem better than it really is, but why not just be honest and put 28 MPG on the sticker. That way people will be pleasantly surprised when, and if, they reach into the 30's. I don't know, maybe I'm living in a dream world where it would be nice if every company was honest and straight forward.
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Old 05-24-2012, 12:10 AM   #1073
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Originally Posted by Suby Noobie View Post
That's so sketchy. Why would they boast 33 MPG Hwy when "most" users will only see an average of 28 MPG Hwy. I know they probably want to make the new Impreza seem better than it really is, but why not just be honest and put 28 MPG on the sticker. That way people will be pleasantly surprised when, and if, they reach into the 30's. I don't know, maybe I'm living in a dream world where it would be nice if every company was honest and straight forward.
I don't think Subaru is doing anything here that other manufacturers don't do though. It's the whole system that is at fault here rather than Subaru specifically.
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Old 05-24-2012, 12:58 AM   #1074
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The numbers are achievable if the conditions are right. To be honest, I'm sure all the cars are tested under the same conditions for all cars. Subaru doesn't set the MPGs, I believe the EPA does.

That said, I do notice that Honda's seem to get the post numbers easier (less the Civic Hybrid perhaps, since that woman is suing Honda).
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Old 05-24-2012, 02:12 AM   #1075
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Originally Posted by ST Eye
The numbers are achievable if the conditions are right. To be honest, I'm sure all the cars are tested under the same conditions for all cars. Subaru doesn't set the MPGs, I believe the EPA does.

That said, I do notice that Honda's seem to get the post numbers easier (less the Civic Hybrid perhaps, since that woman is suing Honda).
I think the generalization of Honda EPA estimates being conservative for their non hybrid vehicles is a fair one, in my experience.
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