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Old 09-08-2012, 10:54 AM   #1801
sgoldste01
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Originally Posted by AllenEllis View Post
I've heard of this in several places.... isn't this a bit concerning? Especially if it's not just the trip computer but the entire car's odometer? Every 2012 Impreza actually has 2.7% more miles on it than the odometer reports?

I've just heard strict laws about not tampering with odometers, so I'm amazed that these cars are rolling out the factory with such a high margin of error. Does it have anything to do with 16" wheels in some models vs 17" wheels or something?
I haven't researched it, but it's my guess that car manufacturers must make their odometers within a certain percentage of perfect accuracy, and that our 2.7% inaccuracy falls within this range.

I also guess that as the tires wear, the odometer becomes more accurate, to the point where it's over-calculating distance by the time your tires' wear bars are exposed. So the distance calculation might be 2.7% low with new tires, 2.7% high with tires that are worn out, and just about perfect if averaged over the life of the tire.

So to your comment, no, I don't find this concerning at all.
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Old 09-08-2012, 10:56 AM   #1802
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenEllis

I've heard of this in several places.... isn't this a bit concerning? Especially if it's not just the trip computer but the entire car's odometer? Every 2012 Impreza actually has 2.7% more miles on it than the odometer reports?

I've just heard strict laws about not tampering with odometers, so I'm amazed that these cars are rolling out the factory with such a high margin of error. Does it have anything to do with 16" wheels in some models vs 17" wheels or something?
Not that large of a margin, basically at the end of the 60k warranty you will have 61620.

Although it is the first car i have owned that the odometer was off (speedometer correct)
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:16 AM   #1803
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I disagree with this statement, but I'll admit that it took me time to learn how to drive this car without feeling as you do (and it's not possible to learn what I learned while the car is in its break-in period, since you're supposed to keep the RPMs below 4k).

It's not that the car is under-powered. It's that Subaru designed the car (intentionally) so that it requires deliberate actions from the driver to extract the power that's hidden just below the surface, as a way of optimizing fuel economy. It's probably a combination of how Subaru configured the throttle tip-in and "gearing" (regardless of whether it's the manual or CVT tranny in manual mode).

I know that the car feel anemic below 3k RPM. I also know that 3rd gear (in the manual tranny) is good all the way up to 80 mph! So I can be driving down the highway in 5th at 60 mph and downshift directly into 3rd, placing me at 4.5k RPM. The car accelerates just fine when prepared for the task in this way.

My VW TDI was a lazy man's car. Because of its low-end torque, it would accelerate in almost any gear as long as the engine was turning 2k or more. The 2.0L Impreza will accelerate too, if you're willing to prepare it properly.

Yes, this takes a toll on the fuel economy, but that's true of any car, including a TDI (I'm sure a Prius would deliver fuel economy in the 20s too if it was continuously flogged). So normally I'll roll along in the highest gear that the car will take, but if I need power, I know where and how to find it.

For example, here's a TDI with average fuel economy lower than I have in my Impreza:

http://www.fuelly.com/driver/nikhsub1/sportwagen
I'm not sure what you mean about learning how to drive the car? I guess I'm the type of person that just drives. I should not have to continuously flog the car in order to feel safe. With the AC on if your pulling out in front of traffic you better flog it! 148 hp in todays world in a 3100 lb car is pushing the evevolpe. IT is a great car for the money safe and well built I just wish it had a little more juice
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:32 AM   #1804
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I'm not sure what you mean about learning how to drive the car? I guess I'm the type of person that just drives. I should not have to continuously flog the car in order to feel safe. With the AC on if your pulling out in front of traffic you better flog it! 148 hp in todays world in a 3100 lb car is pushing the evevolpe. IT is a great car for the money safe and well built I just wish it had a little more juice
When I say "learning how to drive the car", I meant learning how to extract the most power from it (and also learning how to conserve the most gas when I don't need rapid acceleration). Nobody should "have to continuously flog the car" unless they're driving the car at some Track Day event (in which case, an STI would have been a better choice anyway). In typical driving, flogging should be a rare (but sometimes necessary) occurrence, unless you're just flogging it for fun.
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Old 09-08-2012, 12:02 PM   #1805
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I've driven two 2012 loaner Outbacks extensively, and in my normal driving I got slightly better mileage with the OB's than my Impreza. I really can't help but wonder why such a neutered-down engine in a lighter car does worse (for me anyway) than a way bigger and heavier OB with the same engine as the outgoing Impreza (I believe). I wonder how difficult it would be to swap an 11' ej 2.5 in my 2012. If it were fairly straight-forward, I'd get less oil consumption, more hp and torque, and the 2.5 is a bit lighter in weight as well.
My wife has a '12 OB w/CVT. She's hypermiling it, and her best MPG is 29.85. That CVT upshifts much earlier than the Imp's, and the Imp should also follow that stratagy...
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Old 09-08-2012, 12:08 PM   #1806
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Originally Posted by subiTWO View Post
My wife has a '12 OB w/CVT. She's hypermiling it, and her best MPG is 29.85. That CVT upshifts much earlier than the Imp's, and the Imp should also follow that stratagy...
Can you put it in manual mode and force this behavior?
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Old 09-08-2012, 12:12 PM   #1807
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Can you put it in manual mode and force this behavior?
Not really, because the CVT will keep revs below 2k at small throttle, but flappy paddle mode won't let you upshift until the gear you are shifting IN to will produce 2k rpm. So you end up reving higher in FPM. And you cannot get into 6th until about 48 mph, which means for my drive, I spend alot of time in 5th. (Actuall, I FPM till 5th, then switch over to CVT mode).
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Old 09-08-2012, 12:52 PM   #1808
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The cvt never shifts and it doesn't have gears!
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Old 09-08-2012, 01:00 PM   #1809
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Originally Posted by subiTWO View Post
My wife has a '12 OB w/CVT. She's hypermiling it, and her best MPG is 29.85. That CVT upshifts much earlier than the Imp's, and the Imp should also follow that stratagy...
Well that's basically supporting my point- if the bigger, heavier, less aerodynamic OB with the old 2.5 can do 29-30mpg "hypermiling" , its a shame that my new-tered 2.0fb only does a best of 32 or so "hypermiling" with the ac off. The car is much smaller and lighter and more aerodynamic. So I just think the old 2.5 in my car would be awesome.
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Old 09-08-2012, 01:18 PM   #1810
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsteg
The cvt never shifts and it doesn't have gears!
We all know this; but it has simulated gear ratios that when using the paddle & watching the RPMs behaves in the same way as shifting gears would. That's all they're referring to.
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Old 09-08-2012, 06:20 PM   #1811
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The cvt never shifts and it doesn't have gears!

WRONG. The CVT ALWAYS shifts, and it has a near-infinite number of ratios, that everyone except you calls 'gears'. Welcome to 2012.
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Old 09-08-2012, 06:27 PM   #1812
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Originally Posted by subiTWO View Post
WRONG. The CVT ALWAYS shifts, and it has a near-infinite number of ratios, that everyone except you calls 'gears'. Welcome to 2012.
WRONG. It does VARY (hence, Continuously Variable Transmission) the gear ratio, but it DOES NOT shift, or change GEARS because it has none! I don't care what year it is, if you're calling it what it's not, you're wrong. CVT's have been around A LOT longer than 2012 btw.
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Old 09-08-2012, 08:43 PM   #1813
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CVTs use unicorn horn dust and leprechaun hide to make the car go. Now quit mastrollbating each other and get on with the MPGs.
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:07 PM   #1814
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Originally Posted by pgh88 View Post
Good stats, but I also see figures way less than the 27mpg for a strictly city commute. It falls in the acceptable range but to me this car should meet or exceed that 27mpg figure once broken in. This car was made and promoted as a city commuter. As a retired professional I really could care less about the MPG but I still think this cars engine could be better engineered for city and over 65mpg travel to get or exceed the 27/36 figure
I really just figured out how to drive it efficiently a couple tanks ago, I've had to mix driving a lot more lately (which skews the city %), and it's only at about 7K miles. When doing strictly commute for part of a tank, I'm able to make the gauge display over 30 mpg avg (30.1 or 30.4). Even if it's off by 2 that's still 28. That means I'm starting to get the commute and highway mileage I was getting in an '03 Civic. That car never got the EPA ratings either but now I have a nicer/roomier/more capable/hatchback vehicle with equal or better MPG that I was looking for.

I could have gotten a more fuel efficient vehicle in a number of flavors but the Imp appealed to me most. I can't find a vehicle in this list that is a better all-around 5-door for the price.
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com...gs/Hatchbacks/
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Old 09-09-2012, 01:24 AM   #1815
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another hiking road trip today. parking at 3985 feet elevation on mt rainier, coming from almost sea level. about 180 miles round trip.
pulled into the driveway with 39.0 mpg on the gauge. a new all time high.

cvt hatch premium with about 5000 miles on the car.

that was on trip odo b.
trip a odo was since the last fillup with my wife driving around town on short errands and commute. that was at 17mpg, since fillup before this trip.
the car does not like to drive short city hops. usually she gets about 22mpg with mixed driving, but mostly around town short hops.

wheeew, its hard to right a post without caps. but I have been chastised for using caps, so i will do my best to avoid them....
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:26 AM   #1816
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^^Feel free to use a cap at the beginning of your sentences. I'm a Technical Writer, so you have my professional permission to do so.



Nice job on the 39 MPG trip. The car must have liked coasting downhill on your way back home.
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Old 09-09-2012, 10:29 AM   #1817
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Originally Posted by thom52 View Post
another hiking road trip today. parking at 3985 feet elevation on mt rainier, coming from almost sea level. about 180 miles round trip.
pulled into the driveway with 39.0 mpg on the gauge. a new all time high.

cvt hatch premium with about 5000 miles on the car.

that was on trip odo b.
trip a odo was since the last fillup with my wife driving around town on short errands and commute. that was at 17mpg, since fillup before this trip.
the car does not like to drive short city hops. usually she gets about 22mpg with mixed driving, but mostly around town short hops.

wheeew, its hard to right a post without caps. but I have been chastised for using caps, so i will do my best to avoid them....
yep totally agree on avoiding caps. Lol jk...

Totally agree about these cars not liking short city trips, most likely because awd uses 2x as much gas to accelerate car from stop.

This is my first awd car, but seems like city/highway fuel economy has HUGE gap compared to fwd.
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Old 09-09-2012, 10:45 AM   #1818
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Totally agree about these cars not liking short city trips, most likely because awd uses 2x as much gas to accelerate car from stop.
Is this really true? Why only 2x to accelerate from a stop, but not 2x at other times (like when cruising down the highway)?
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Old 09-09-2012, 10:49 AM   #1819
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Is this really true? Why only 2x to accelerate from a stop, but not 2x at other times (like when cruising down the highway)?
I highly doubt it's anywhere near twice as much.
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:18 AM   #1820
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lol I was just saying it has to spin 2x as many wheels. But with AT, the power split varies so its mostly fwd when cruising, so that saves gas. Its switches to 50/50 split when it feels wheels slipping

I think MT is always 50/50 split
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:34 AM   #1821
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Well that's basically supporting my point- if the bigger, heavier, less aerodynamic OB with the old 2.5 can do 29-30mpg "hypermiling" , its a shame that my new-tered 2.0fb only does a best of 32 or so "hypermiling" with the ac off. The car is much smaller and lighter and more aerodynamic. So I just think the old 2.5 in my car would be awesome.

i don't hypermile, and my current tanks average speed is around 75 and mpg is looking to be 31
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Old 09-09-2012, 03:15 PM   #1822
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Originally Posted by myrt1987 View Post
lol I was just saying it has to spin 2x as many wheels. But with AT, the power split varies so its mostly fwd when cruising, so that saves gas. Its switches to 50/50 split when it feels wheels slipping

I think MT is always 50/50 split
I don't know if it necessarily goes to 50/50 when the cvt senses slippage. The torque split is electronically controlled similar to the STI when the DCCD is in auto mode.
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Old 09-09-2012, 04:16 PM   #1823
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WRONG. It does VARY (hence, Continuously Variable Transmission) the gear ratio, but it DOES NOT shift, or change GEARS because it has none! I don't care what year it is, if you're calling it what it's not, you're wrong. CVT's have been around A LOT longer than 2012 btw.

CVT's *shift* ratios. I've been running them since 1995. And I know how to spell pedantic...
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Old 09-09-2012, 05:00 PM   #1824
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CVT's *shift* ratios. I've been running them since 1995. And I know how to spell pedantic...
Did you drive a Civic HX?
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:00 PM   #1825
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I haven't researched it, but it's my guess that car manufacturers must make their odometers within a certain percentage of perfect accuracy, and that our 2.7% inaccuracy falls within this range.

I also guess that as the tires wear, the odometer becomes more accurate, to the point where it's over-calculating distance by the time your tires' wear bars are exposed. So the distance calculation might be 2.7% low with new tires, 2.7% high with tires that are worn out, and just about perfect if averaged over the life of the tire.

So to your comment, no, I don't find this concerning at all.
while looking up tires and their specs. i notice that the S34 oem tires are 25.2 tall(overall diameter) and tires such as G-max and DWS are only 25.1 inches tall. that means, that those tires will be closer to the odometer calculation and slower to the speedometer than the oem tires. just food for thought
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