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Old 11-29-2012, 11:19 PM   #2451
flyboy1100
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What are you talking about?
he doesn't even know
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:22 PM   #2452
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If this is the case then I think something is wrong with either your car or mine as my car gets somewhere from 37 - 39 mpg at 65 mph.
it's not the car, it is the driver. i bet he could drive your car and achieve the same mpg he gets in HIS CAR. otherwise my wife and I would always get the same mpg, which is never true because we don't drive the same.
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:23 PM   #2453
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Oh you are right, you said you got 36mpg at 60mph



Your scanguage pretty much reflects what the EPA testing reflects, since the EPA test the HWY number on your sticker is based upon is meant to simulate real world conditions, where the average speed limit is under 60mph.

MPG goes down with speed? You don't say... where have I seen that before?

http://www.mpgforspeed.com
Mostly true, unless you compare it to other vehicles that are supposed to get the same, because they all get a lot more. Of course you don't get that...
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:26 PM   #2454
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All true, unless you compare it to other vehicles that are supposed to get the same, because they all get a lot more. Of course you don't get that...
doesn't matter if those FRONT WHEEL DRIVE cars get more, they should as logic and physics would lead 99.9% of people to believe (assuming they understand the different drive trains, but I digress) the fact still remains if you drive under similar conditions to the EPA you still achieve pretty darn close to or meet the ESTIMATED MPG, therefore you were not lied to, and no one here understands what you think is the problem.
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:29 PM   #2455
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stevehnm,

Has Consumer Reports respond to any of your crazy ranting yet?

They published their data, you'd think they would love to hear from someone as erudite as you about how wrong they are to praise the car and, strangely, the high MPG's achieved with the new Impreza.

Why won't anyone listen to you?
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:47 PM   #2456
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doesn't matter if those FRONT WHEEL DRIVE cars get more,
I am just incredulous at your inability to understand that the EPA test procedures already consider that. If they're rated the same, they're rated the same.
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:08 AM   #2457
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I am just incredulous at your inability to understand that the EPA test procedures already consider that. If they're rated the same, they're rated the same.
http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtest...nomy.html#more

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Be Honest About Your Driving
The point here is that the common advertising disclaimer of "your mileage will vary" is something every car shopper must take seriously. Honestly assessing your specific situation is the only way to adjust the EPA ratings down — or up — to more accurately reflect the fuel economy you can expect to see once the car or truck is yours.

One way to do a reality check on a car's EPA rating is to deduct 10 percent from it if you consider yourself an aggressive driver. This means someone who routinely exceeds speed limits and hurries away from stop signs and red lights. You can stick with the EPA rating if you consider yourself an efficient driver. You'd need to reevaluate that self-description if you find that your car or truck is consistently failing to achieve the rated combined average, however.

Real-world fuel economy can also be diminished if you use the air-conditioning a lot, haul heavy loads of cargo or passengers, or even live at the top of a hill.
http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/...a-ratings.html

just because some vehicles, your toyota ****box i wouldn't be caught dead in, can beat mpg estimates, doesn't mean it is therefore guaranteed all vehicles will beat the estimates. the majority of vehicles on the road do not. most people understand this, for some reason you don't. your car will get epa mpg if you slow the **** down, but you refuse and just bitch about it. get over it.
it really isn't that complicated....
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:41 AM   #2458
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the majority of vehicles on the road do not (beat the EPA estimate). most people understand this, for some reason you don't. your car will get epa mpg if you slow the **** down, but you refuse and just bitch about it. get over it.
it really isn't that complicated....
You are either incredibly forgetful or deceitful, one or the other. I am beginning to suspect the other. We've been over this before several times. Most cars' Consumer Reports (aka independent) combined estimates do in fact beat their EPA combined estimates. In fact, you yourself chose seven for comparison! Did you forget, or are you trying to conceal the truth with your buddy Zeeper? I will remind you here.

The first number below after the brand and model is the Consumer Report combined mpg. The second is the EPA combined mpg. The third is the ratio (go to Wikipedia to look that word up) of the two. You said "the majority of vehicles on the road do not (beat the EPA estimate)". As anyone with any sense whatsoever can see, the only one here that "does not beat the EPA estimate" as you say is the Impreza. The rest, that you yourself chose for comparison, *do*, in a real world independent test, beat the EPA estimate.

Brand___________CR_____EPA___CR/EPA
Mazda 3_________34_____29_____1.17
Ford Focus_______39_____37_____1.05
Chevy Cruze______40_____39_____1.03
Toyota Corolla____39_____35_____1.11
Honda Civic HF____49_____39_____1.26
Mazda 2_________40_____35_____1.14
Honda Fit________39_____35_____1.11
Subaru Impreza___35_____36_____0.97

QED (again - look that up too).

Last edited by stevehnm; 11-30-2012 at 12:48 AM.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:12 AM   #2459
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Default MPG gauge? Stupid gauge?

Whilst my '03 WRX was in the shop, I got to drive a nice 2012 Impreza. It was nice. Four things caught my attention:

1) The bum warmers were brilliant! Best feature of the car. A heated steering wheel would be great, too.
2) The paddle shifters were fun for a bit. Although, I might prefer that they stay fixed at 10-2 (not 9-3) instead of turning with the steering wheel. Not sure about that, tho ... I need more experience with them.
3) Needs more power outlets and the USB buried at the bottom of the arm-rest bin where it will get buried is poor positioning.

4) Okay, so what's with the stupid meter? You know, the one labelled, "MPG, +, -." Apparently, if I am going downhill with my foot off the gas, MPG is "+." And, if I am going uphill OR am accelerating, MPG is "-." In fact, there seems no way to even lightly feather the accelerator without getting a "-" MPG rating. Well ... DUH. If you idle the car or use the gas pedal or go uphill, the MPG gauge reads "-." Do we really, really, really need to waste dash space on this? How long has Subaru been putting the stupid meter in its cars? (Hopefully, the WRXes don't get them ... cos buying a WRX should just peg the thing permanently on "-.")

Cheers all,

Sean
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:19 AM   #2460
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Whilst my '03 WRX was in the shop, I got to drive a nice 2012 Impreza. It was nice. Four things caught my attention:

1) The bum warmers were brilliant! Best feature of the car. A heated steering wheel would be great, too.
2) The paddle shifters were fun for a bit. Although, I might prefer that they stay fixed at 10-2 (not 9-3) instead of turning with the steering wheel. Not sure about that, tho ... I need more experience with them.
3) Needs more power outlets and the USB buried at the bottom of the arm-rest bin where it will get buried is poor positioning.

4) Okay, so what's with the stupid meter? You know, the one labelled, "MPG, +, -." Apparently, if I am going downhill with my foot off the gas, MPG is "+." And, if I am going uphill OR am accelerating, MPG is "-." In fact, there seems no way to even lightly feather the accelerator without getting a "-" MPG rating. Well ... DUH. If you idle the car or use the gas pedal or go uphill, the MPG gauge reads "-." Do we really, really, really need to waste dash space on this? How long has Subaru been putting the stupid meter in its cars? (Hopefully, the WRXes don't get them ... cos buying a WRX should just peg the thing permanently on "-.")

Cheers all,

Sean
Thinking ahead to a new WRX purchase in 2015.
It is a pointless waste of space, the only redeeming quality is the gauge self-adjusts so the middle is your current avg mpg and you can see if you are driving above or below your own average.

It would be better served to put a temp gauge there IMHO.

But really, it just tells you that anytime you accelerate you are using gas, and any time you coast you aren't. Most people already figured that one out.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:31 AM   #2461
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Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
You are either incredibly forgetful or deceitful, one or the other. I am beginning to suspect the other. We've been over this before several times. Most cars' Consumer Reports (aka independent) combined estimates do in fact beat their EPA combined estimates. In fact, you yourself chose seven for comparison! Did you forget, or are you trying to conceal the truth with your buddy Zeeper? I will remind you here.

The first number below after the brand and model is the Consumer Report combined mpg. The second is the EPA combined mpg. The third is the ratio (go to Wikipedia to look that word up) of the two. You said "the majority of vehicles on the road do not (beat the EPA estimate)". As anyone with any sense whatsoever can see, the only one here that "does not beat the EPA estimate" as you say is the Impreza. The rest, that you yourself chose for comparison, *do*, in a real world independent test, beat the EPA estimate.

Brand___________CR_____EPA___CR/EPA
Mazda 3_________34_____29_____1.17
Ford Focus_______39_____37_____1.05
Chevy Cruze______40_____39_____1.03
Toyota Corolla____39_____35_____1.11
Honda Civic HF____49_____39_____1.26
Mazda 2_________40_____35_____1.14
Honda Fit________39_____35_____1.11
Subaru Impreza___35_____36_____0.97

QED (again - look that up too).
Wow I smell a valid warranty claim -- "my car does not exceed the EPA ratings, please give me money".

Good luck with that.

As far as meeting the ratings, you've already proven that you can do that, but don't think it is worth your time to drive under 70mph on the highway.

BTW my dash gauge is optimistic, but not that optimistic. On the highway in 5th my car is still turning a higher RPM than a CVT version at the same speeds, and I can get more than 36mpg for my car rated 33mpg at 60mph.

These folks were impressed with the CVT:

http://www.mpgomatic.com/2012/07/19/...-sport-review/

Maybe your scangauge is broken.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:34 AM   #2462
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:41 AM   #2463
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Originally Posted by SeaRex View Post
4) Okay, so what's with the stupid meter? You know, the one labelled, "MPG, +, -." Apparently, if I am going downhill with my foot off the gas, MPG is "+." And, if I am going uphill OR am accelerating, MPG is "-." In fact, there seems no way to even lightly feather the accelerator without getting a "-" MPG rating. Well ... DUH. If you idle the car or use the gas pedal or go uphill, the MPG gauge reads "-." Do we really, really, really need to waste dash space on this? How long has Subaru been putting the stupid meter in its cars? (Hopefully, the WRXes don't get them ... cos buying a WRX should just peg the thing permanently on "-.")
This was my first impression of this meter too, until I understood how it works. As mentioned above, it's a dynamic meter, meaning that the center-line represents your current average MPGs. The lower your average, the easier it is to place the needle in the "+" territory. The higher your average, the hard it is to place the needle in the "+" territory.

This dynamic behavior turns the needle (and thus, your ability to improve your MPGs) into a fun game. As with any video game, the better you're doing, the harder the game gets. Same here--the better your average MPGs, the harder it is to show a "+" reading on the meter.

It's actually quite entertaining, and the result of playing the game is improved MPGs, so it's a win-win. Now that I understand this, I think that meter is one of the coolest features of the car. It's motivating, and it's fun. I think every car that calculates average MPGs should have a meter like that one.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:52 AM   #2464
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Thats a good way to put it, I didnt like the +/- meter at first either.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:58 AM   #2465
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It's actually quite entertaining, and the result of playing the game is improved MPGs, so it's a win-win. Now that I understand this, I think that meter is one of the coolest features of the car. It's motivating, and it's fun. I think every car that calculates average MPGs should have a meter like that one.
I don't know if I would classify it as "fun" but it is educational. Every increment on the gauge is about 4 mpg (at least on mine) - so if you are averaging 30 and it is to the left ("-") two lines you are instantaneously getting 22, conversely if you are going downhill and the gauge is two lines to the right you would be getting 38 at that point in time. If you have a cvt and are on cruise control, when you start to climb a hill you frequently see the needle peg to the negative (depending on current reference - the digital gauge in the center of the console) as it continuously downshifts - climbing at freeway speeds above 5000 rpm (not at all uncommon) you are under 10 mpg.

One thing I would wish for is that I could hit the paddle shifter and stay in a higher gear - it just immediately goes back to drive and revs back up. That's another advantage of the 5 speed - not only is it geared a little lower so it handles inclines better, but on cruise control it will not downshift so although it slows a little on the climb, the mpg stays up.

From comments on this forum it seems highway driving in the real world is more economical with the 5 speed.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:04 AM   #2466
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It is a pointless waste of space, the only redeeming quality is the gauge self-adjusts so the middle is your current avg mpg and you can see if you are driving above or below your own average.

It would be better served to put a temp gauge there IMHO.

But really, it just tells you that anytime you accelerate you are using gas, and any time you coast you aren't. Most people already figured that one out.
Agreed. I'm using a ScanGauge II for temperature display for now, but I'm looking for a more permanent installation that won't look out of place.

I think a BSFC display would be more helpful than the relative MPG display, but I'd take a temperature display over either.

The way I drive, the needle is usually buried in one end or the other. I can still beat the EPA's 34 MPG figure with a mix of rural/suburban/city if I'm careful.

The manual says the upshift indicator can be switched on and off through the instrument panel, but on both settings, it never appears except during the LCD self-test on startup. Does anyone with a US-spec 5MT have a working upshift indicator?

Last edited by Commander Keen; 11-30-2012 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:07 AM   #2467
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I think every car that calculates average MPGs should have a meter like that one.
I'd much rather have an analogue operating temperature indicator or analogue fuel level indicator instead.
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:56 PM   #2468
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Hey steve, you already killed one MPG thread with your complaining. Please leave this one alone so people can do with it as intended; report their mpg.

Everyone else, stop troll feeding. Otherwise he will continue with this forever.
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:56 PM   #2469
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The car is so boring to drive if I'm trying to get good MPGs (talking city mainly). I think ignoring the +/- indicator altogether is much more fun.
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:00 PM   #2470
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Hey steve, you already killed one MPG thread with your complaining. Please leave this one alone so people can do with it as intended; report their mpg.
LOL. I'm just trying to keep reality part of it, and I don't think I'm clogging it up and limiting post room. I don't think I "killed" the other thread either. I think it was more people who were chastising those of us who were just wondering why the Impreza gets such poor mpg compared to other cars with the same EPA ratings, and they just don't get it.

People can still report their mpg.
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:17 PM   #2471
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About 34mpg average to date. 13,000 Miles over 8 months.
Best was in the 37 range. Worst was 31 range.

My Impreza with the CVT has never seen 5000+ rpms with or without cruise. Must be a statistical glitch
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:28 PM   #2472
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Originally Posted by sgoldste01 View Post
This was my first impression of this meter too, until I understood how it works. As mentioned above, it's a dynamic meter, meaning that the center-line represents your current average MPGs. The lower your average, the easier it is to place the needle in the "+" territory. The higher your average, the hard it is to place the needle in the "+" territory.

This dynamic behavior turns the needle (and thus, your ability to improve your MPGs) into a fun game. As with any video game, the better you're doing, the harder the game gets. Same here--the better your average MPGs, the harder it is to show a "+" reading on the meter.

It's actually quite entertaining, and the result of playing the game is improved MPGs, so it's a win-win. Now that I understand this, I think that meter is one of the coolest features of the car. It's motivating, and it's fun. I think every car that calculates average MPGs should have a meter like that one.

Agree! I love the little needle.

A very slight lift in pressure on the accelerator, and the need moves up a touch, but the speed might stay the same. Opposite is true too, a slight push on the gas, and the needle goes down, but you really don't speed up. Why? It takes lots of energy to accelerate 3000 lbs from 65 to 65.5 mph.

Last edited by jd_24; 11-30-2012 at 03:28 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:32 PM   #2473
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13000 in 8 months, wow. That's a good highway sample. Did mpg gradually improve as you put more miles on it?
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:45 PM   #2474
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How many miles do you have on yours? Is it a cvt or 5 speed?
I think my mileage is creeping up on 4500 miles. We just got the car in August. It's a 5 speed. I would expect those with CVTs to get slightly better mileage even though they have more weight and a torque converter. Optimal gear ratios and all that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm
Brand___________CR_____EPA___CR/EPA
Mazda 3_________34_____29_____1.17
Ford Focus_______39_____37_____1.05
Chevy Cruze______40_____39_____1.03
Toyota Corolla____39_____35_____1.11
Honda Civic HF____49_____39_____1.26
Mazda 2_________40_____35_____1.14
Honda Fit________39_____35_____1.11
Subaru Impreza___35_____36_____0.97

QED (again - look that up too).
Stevehnm, you've brought this up before and I do think it's interesting but I think you'd really need a much bigger sample size and a test for statistical significance (fun, I know!) before stating "QED". My opinion is that your little analysis reflects that the Impreza's mpg vs. speed curve is more unforgiving than some other cars. It is capable of getting decent mileage between 35 - 65 mph but if you go much higher or lower it falls off a cliff. I've seen this in my mileage on fuelly (http://www.fuelly.com/driver/bigfathorse/impreza). My average was ~34.5mpg until my last tank where I did a lot of slower in-city driving and got a craptacular 26.6mpg.

Or it could be explained any number of other ways. I'm no statistician.

Anyway, once again, I don't think we have sufficient evidence to claim that Subaru and/or the EPA are gaming tests. Not that anyone is looking for my opinion on the matter. But hey, welcome the internet: land of opinions. For anyone who cares, this will hopefully be my last post on the matter.
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:47 PM   #2475
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13000 in 8 months, wow. That's a good highway sample. Did mpg gradually improve as you put more miles on it?
MPG might have improved with time, April had winter gas yet so I started in the 31 to 33 range. By June and July 36 and 37mpg was typical, but somewhere in May we switched to summer blend gas (still with ethanol). Now in November the mpg has dropped again to the lower 30's with the winter gas and colder temps.

My commute is not all highway. Lately the commute has gotten better because construction season is wrapping up so traffic is no longer stop-n-go. Best guess 70% highway commute on average. However very few short trips. 25+ miles most of the time.
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