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Old 01-16-2012, 04:40 PM   #1
ridewhencan
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Default gtworx bilstein re-valve, rce blacks 1st impression

I have a 2008 WRX five door with whiteline 22 front bar, 20 rear bar, end links and 2009 wrx top hats. I installed the bilsteins last september and as much as I liked the handling improvement, they were simply too stiff for me. I read the then 4200 post thread on these fine struts/springs and learned a lot. I decided to get the re-valve and go with the 2010 STI SD springs that another member has used. I took out the bils and reinstalled the stock struts using the STI front springs only. (Which, it turns out, makes the stock suspension feel significantly better.) The rear STI springs are a lot shorter than the stockers. I called Myles to discuss the height (it's great to have a vendor who is accessible!) and he told me; A. that the STI springs installed will leave about a 5mm gap between the top of the spring and the top hat when the suspension is unweighted and the spring could conceivably rotate (at least that what I remember) and, B. that RCE was coming out with the blacks.

The STI SD springs are suppose to be 250s while the blacks are 275s. Even though I was looking for as mild a setup, given these components, that was available, I didn't like how short the STI spring was for the rear (front fits fine) and ordered up the blacks. Following are comparison pics, front and rear.



I counted four coils at 14mm thick for the stock, 4.5 coils at 15mm for the sti and five coils at 14mm for the RCE

Here are the rears.



So, I put the re-valved bils and rce blacks in and have a day of driving on them. (Getting aligned later this week.) First impression? Success! This is still a sports suspension but the hard edge has been softened. The Taconic Parkway, N of route 287 in Westchester County, NY, is the bumpiest highway that I've ever driven on. It's concrete with numerous patched potholes and jarring pavement seams. With the original bils and the yellows, this stretch of road was intolerable. Now you feel the bumps (car sticks to the ground nicely) but not in the base of your spine. I was able to hit a few twisties and think maybe the car is slightly more prone to understeer than before but then again, it hasn't been aligned yet. Sure tracks well. Basically, this is the setup I was looking for originally for my daily driver, non-tracked car.
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Old 01-16-2012, 05:16 PM   #2
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This is fantastic info. Thanks for posting! I am really wondering what the blacks with Bilstein (NON re-valved) would be like? Does it cost more to get them re-valved? I will not be tracking the car, and so I may very well follow in your footsteps. Thanks again. How is the drop? Does this set-up get rid of the uneven wheel gap between the front and rear? I'd personally love to see a pic of them on the car.

Thanks again!
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Old 01-16-2012, 05:58 PM   #3
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Just curious, who revalved them for you, and what specifications did you say?

I'm curious to know the bump/rebound ratio. Shock dyno would be even better.
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Old 01-16-2012, 08:07 PM   #4
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The revalve was by bilstein through gtworx. Myles gave me an RA number and I shipped them out. The spec was set by Myles and crew after further testing.
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Old 01-16-2012, 08:11 PM   #5
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I'll try and snap a pic tomorrow but according to myles in the "lets get some 09 wrx specific dampers" thread the drop is the same as with the yellows. Looks that way to me.
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Old 01-16-2012, 10:03 PM   #6
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Thanks for the update, sounds like you got exactly what you needed!

Good info on the STI SE springs. I have access to Subie part numbers up to 2010 now. I can see that the JDM STI Spec C springs I have are the same part number for the fronts, but the rear for the JDM is 20380FG120 vs 20380FG130 for the STI SE rear spring. My Spec C spring fit on the rear with no gap on the middle circlip setting, it has a little bit of pre-load. Agreed I would not use a spring with no pre-load at full droop.
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Old 01-16-2012, 11:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridewhencan
The revalve was by bilstein through gtworx. Myles gave me an RA number and I shipped them out. The spec was set by Myles and crew after further testing.
Awesome. So Myles actually tried out some STI SD springs and something adjustable?

Btw what are STI "SD" springs?
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Old 01-17-2012, 08:47 AM   #8
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^^^I think he means "STI SE" Springs, the 2010 STI SE had 250/250 springs f/r similar to the JDM Spec C of the time.
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:45 AM   #9
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What exactly is involved in the re-valving of the shocks. Who do we send them to, and what is the average turn around. Can any authorized Bils dealer do this?
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Old 01-17-2012, 01:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Power6 View Post
^^^I think he means "STI SE" Springs, the 2010 STI SE had 250/250 springs f/r similar to the JDM Spec C of the time.
Ah... thanks.

I'd imagine the spec C springs to be pretty awesome; awesome balance of performance with acceptable DD.
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Old 01-17-2012, 01:45 PM   #11
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Great news! I am really leaning towards picking up the RG blacks for starters. I have the same curiosity of stoker68, in that I wonder what JUST the new springs would feel like, and since I dont know if I have the downtime to ship off my shocks for a week or so (not sure about the turnaround) I might get my answer!

ridewhencan, could you shoot me a PM with how much you spent on the blacks/revalve? Hopefully I could sell the Yellows to make up for some of the cost as well.
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Old 01-18-2012, 08:25 AM   #12
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That's right, SE not SD. Power6, I couldn't find a vendor that carried your part numbers for the springs but maybe that's because they are JDM? When I asked Kris at Chaplins Automotive Group http://www.subarugenuineparts.com/
for 2010 STI SE springs he gave me the following part numbers: 20330FG530 and 20380FG350. He had to check with subaru america to locate them and said at the time that there were only two sets in the US.

The springs are 300. The bils are 45 (or was it 47?) a pop. You have to contact Myles and get an RMA # and then ship them out to bilstein in CA. I'm in CT so the shipping was five days ups ground and cost about $20. I shipped on 11/23 and the bils were ready to be sent back on 12/5. I think I got them around 12/13 so there may have been a day or two in getting them packed up.

It's not just any authorized bils dealer. Myles has coordinated the revalve spec with bilstein (which I assume is proprietary.) Shipping is a pain but I wanted to get the benefit of their work on this set up. I'm liking it more every day. Going for alignment today. Going to ask for -1.1 front, -1.8 rear and 1/16 front and 1/8 rear toe and see what they (dan perkins subaru) say.
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Old 03-03-2012, 06:00 AM   #13
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Any chance you could snap some pics of these on the car? I just want to see if there was any ride height difference from the yellows to the blacks.
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Old 03-13-2012, 02:49 PM   #14
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Nice review and same questions as a couple of others: any chance for pics whenever you get time? I am thinking of going this route for my DD that "might" see some track time here and there, but 98% of time is daily driver with family and friends in the car so comfort is paramount, but need better handling and control than stock!
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Old 03-13-2012, 03:53 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric91Z View Post
Nice review and same questions as a couple of others: any chance for pics whenever you get time? I am thinking of going this route for my DD that "might" see some track time here and there, but 98% of time is daily driver with family and friends in the car so comfort is paramount, but need better handling and control than stock!

This is exactly my situation. I am also scared to go with something too aggressive considering the roads and weather this car sees year-round. I have submitted a pre-order form for the next batch. Said to arrive late April/early May. Bilstein(re-valved) and black regular guys. I will post my thoughts, and pics after the car settles, when I get these on a couple months from now.

Any advice, pictures, comments, or additional reviews in the mean-time would be great!
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Old 03-13-2012, 11:43 PM   #16
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Here she is on winter steelies
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Old 03-14-2012, 08:07 AM   #17
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I've got the GTWorx Bilstiens (not re-valved) and RCE blacks going on my car on the 26th with Whiteline 24F/22R sways and KB endlinks and a custom alignment. I'll give my impressions of the ride after I take it out. It's obviously a lot of components going on at once so the whole car is going to feel different. I'm really curious about how the dampers match with the Blacks though. I'm coming from an '04 STi so I definitely know what a harsh ride is like.
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:44 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridewhencan View Post
Here she is on winter steelies

Love the stance! Just about perfect for a daily driver, in my opinion, without having to deal with some of the downsides of coilovers!
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Old 03-15-2012, 04:08 AM   #19
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Keep us updated. I am also looking to purchase the gtworx bilstein with the
Rce blacks just not sure if I want it revalved or not. My car will only be daily driven with spirited driving. I don't want to sacrifice all the comfort for an aggressive set up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ying View Post
I've got the GTWorx Bilstiens (not re-valved) and RCE blacks going on my car on the 26th with Whiteline 24F/22R sways and KB endlinks and a custom alignment. I'll give my impressions of the ride after I take it out. It's obviously a lot of components going on at once so the whole car is going to feel different. I'm really curious about how the dampers match with the Blacks though. I'm coming from an '04 STi so I definitely know what a harsh ride is like.
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Old 03-15-2012, 10:16 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridewhencan View Post
I have a 2008 WRX five door with whiteline 22 front bar, 20 rear bar, end links and 2009 wrx top hats.

I decided to get the re-valve and go with the 2010 STI SE springs that another member has used. I took out the bils and reinstalled the stock struts using the STI front springs only.

The rear STI springs are a lot shorter than the stockers. I called Myles to discuss the height (it's great to have a vendor who is accessible!) and he told me; A. that the STI springs installed will leave about a 5mm gap between the top of the spring and the top hat when the suspension is unweighted and the spring could conceivably rotate (at least that what I remember) and, B. that RCE was coming out with the blacks.

The STI SE springs are suppose to be 250s while the blacks are 275s. Even though I was looking for as mild a setup, given these components, that was available, I didn't like how short the STI spring was for the rear (front fits fine) and ordered up the blacks. Following are comparison pics. Here are the rears.


Interesting. The 2011 STi springs must have been different. With the 250F rates, they are probably the same as the 2010 SE springs. The rears, however, are a 297 rate and are not short like the '10 SE springs.

Here are '11 STI rear springs on WRX Konis:



I can say for certain that there is NO gap between the tophat and the top of the spring, unweighted. As a matter of fact, the tension was so high that I broke a spring compressor (it was a cheap set of compressors, and it is a long story).

Just posting that info for people doing research.

Congrats on the RCE Blacks. If it were not for the cost of them on top of my Konis, I'd have gone with them in a heartbeat.
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:38 PM   #21
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The tension would be that great as you have the lower spring perch upside down.

BTW guys, we just got a pallet of these spring in this week.

Tony
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:42 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
The tension would be that great as you have the lower spring perch upside down.

Tony
Logically, I thought the same, but Koni shows the perch in that orientation.

I guess that I'll call them again...
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Old 03-15-2012, 10:33 PM   #23
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Clearly, they show a bowl orientation rather than a dome orientation.

Weird.

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Old 03-17-2012, 10:31 AM   #24
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When you order the springs and re-valved Bils, do you actually have to take delivery of the Bils and then send them in for the rebuild, or can you just order them re-valved and get the package clean and simple? From this thread, it seems like you have to do the former which seems a little funky (not to mention a costly hassle).
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Old 03-17-2012, 02:26 PM   #25
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Per Myles; The Bilsteins do not need to be revalved if you're using the Black springs, the shocks valving will still be sufficient
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