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Old 01-19-2012, 06:55 PM   #1
Lateralis
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OMGHi2U 2012 STI Stereo Build with OEM NAV H/U

Ok 1st off I tend to ramble alot and my thoughts might be a bit scatterd so I appologive before hand.

So I just got my 2nd Subaru, a 2012 sti ltd with the nav pkg. I love the stock H/U as it does EVERYTHING. Bluetooth, HD radio, Ipod, Aux-in, XM, everything that I would ever need in one nice little pkg. However, the stock speakers need to go so that I can obtain musical euphoria.

Before I got rid of my old wrx I took out all of my stereo equipment.
2 sets of JL Audio XR-650csi
1 set of JL Audio XR-650cxi
2 JL Audio 12w6v2-d4's
2 Alpine PDX 4.100
2 Alpine PDX 1.600
Eclipse AVN5510

That set up that I was running was overkill, but awesome.

What I'm looking to do with the new car is Run 3 way components in the front, either leave the rears stock or put in the xr-650cxi's, and run 1 of the 12w6v2's.

For the 3 ways up front I'm considering the Focal 165-VR3's. I don't have alot of experience with them, but I hear great things about the Focal component setups.

As for making this work I need a sound processor. I've ruled out using a LOC and more specifically something like the Audiocontrol LC6 or LC8. I'm basing that decision off of the stock H/U DSP. With the upgraded speakers and amplifiers all the crap that was covered up by the inability of the stock speakers to reproduced is going to come out and sound like complete crap. Along with that would be Bass control. Most oem h/u dsp will muddle out bass for the most part as volume goes up. With all this being said I need to cancle out the stock unit dsp and get that flat eq and the only way I'm going to get that is with a aftermarket sound processor.

The one's that I've looked into so far are the JL Audio Clean Sweep, JBL MS-8, and the Alpine PXE-H660. Alpine also has something new that I think is supposed to replace the PXE-H660, but from what I can tell it is not on sale yet.

I have NO experience with sound processors at all and actually have never seen how they are set up. Also since I'm going to run 3-way components up front I think it just made things even trickier.

Ok on with the questions.

1: Now I'm guessing that my '12 is like most others and does not come stock with amps therefore making everything out of the H/U speaker level signals. Where are people taping into these lines? Are they splicing them right at the radio harness or what?

2: What would you recomend for sound processor considering my overall goals?

3: Do sound processors remove the need for the crossover provided with the speaker sets? I noticed that some of them ( JBL MS-8 ) say that they have built in crossover point/slopes.

4: If the above is "yes" would I be better off mix matching components than just buying a complete set and what would your speaker recomendations be?

5: Do sound processors remove the ability to control volume from the H/U? I can deal with having to open the glove box to deal wit the EQ but having a remote volume knob seperate from the H/U is NOT an option I'm willing to consider.

Lastly I'm not really on a budget but not looking for stuff that is stupid expensive. I will post my build in here once I start it.

Thanks for your opinions guys!
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Last edited by Lateralis; 01-27-2012 at 04:45 PM. Reason: Thread direction changed.
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Old 01-19-2012, 07:11 PM   #2
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keeping the OE HU is not an issue...

Alpine currently offers nothing... the H660 does the integration part... but offers limited processsing..

The Jbl MS8 or the audison bit-one are the only "integration" processors readily available... well the mini-dsp is an option.....

right now... getting 3-way front, rear fill AND 5.1 or more processing.... yeah... I dream of the PXA-H900 etc every day when I try to re-evaluate my system....

In my opinion, if the newest Alpine PXA-H800 actually materializes.. awesome...

there needs to be a TRUE 3-way front, 2-way rear fill, + sub , + Center channel... 5.1+ ALL channels active.. So basically a TEN(10) channel rca processor.

Mini DSP is the only current option... u-build it...

Rob
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Old 01-19-2012, 07:19 PM   #3
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People have reported huge gains in sound quality when using this http://www.crutchfield.com/p_161LC6I...er-reviews-tab and aftermarket amp for the speakers.

I know its not an EQ flattening processor, but its the route I am going to go...its cheaper and seems to have very positive reviews.
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Old 01-24-2012, 10:22 PM   #4
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Ok, well been doing a lot of research on other forums and have decided on the direction of my project.

Here goes:

JBL MS-8 sound processor
Alpine PDX 4.100
Alpine PDX F6
Alpine PDX M6
HAT Legatia L641-3 Pro Component Speaker Set
JL XR-650cxi "rear fill"
1 JL 12 w6v2 d4

Still have a bit of a shopping list since I'm not reusing a lot of my old equipment. Being this will be my 1st actual SQ style build I can't wait to start putting this all together!

Now on to the 1st hurdle. The radio harness... oh yes... I'm going to be getting a break out harness from ae64. Anyways here are some pics that I took while I was in it.

Side note: Fujitsu Ten is the same company that makes Eclipse. This is probably why I really like the H/U other than the fact the DSP sucks.


(Click small images to see larger versions)






Factory 10-pin harness: , back 1, back 2


Factory 6-pin harness: , back 1, back 2


Factory 28-pin harness: , front 2, back 1, back 2



Last edited by Lateralis; 02-24-2012 at 11:02 AM. Reason: Updated Rear Pin pics and the 28 pin connector
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Old 01-24-2012, 11:22 PM   #5
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Sounds like an awesome setup!!! Where are you thinking for the 3-way locations??
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Old 01-25-2012, 12:15 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speakerpimp View Post
Sounds like an awesome setup!!! Where are you thinking for the 3-way locations??
Well For the Tweeters I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to stick them in the bottom of the a-pillars like you did, but I don't plan on hiding them. Will most likely be similar to the other thread with the 2012 sti.

Now with the Mid-bass and Mid-range I haven't really decided yet. My 1st idea is putting the mid-bass in the stock speaker location. Than putting the mid-range below the leather arm rest thingy on the door. Pic for reference lol.



I'm thinking this mostly because 1) doing a kick panel to me is out of the question. 2) I think the ms-8 will be able to properly set the stage even though the MR and MB are not located next to each other with its time delay. Doing this would keep the install fairly simply as I would only really need to make a grill for the MR's. I still need to do some more research though to see if this would be a problem having the MR so far back.

My other idea is to mold in a pod just forward of the armrest. The L4 isn't a very big speaker, but really the deciding factor is going to be when I actually get the speakers in my hands so I can physically see what I have to work with. I also don't want to make it seem like what I am putting in there is a foreign object either if you know what I mean. More to come as things come in.

Thoughts and opinions welcome!
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Old 01-25-2012, 12:52 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lateralis View Post
Side note: Fujitsu Ten is the same company that makes Eclipse. This is probably why I really like the H/U other than the fact the DSP sucks.
That's the Toyota influence within Subaru. Subaru always used to use either Clarion (which is a Nissan keiretsu company), Kenwood or Panasonic. Toyota's main stereo manufacturer is Fujitsu Ten. As far as stock headunits go, Fujitsus have always been the best I've had.
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Old 01-25-2012, 12:59 AM   #8
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Super cool! Always nice to see someone with the balls to take on a three way install!!!Well I am all about letting people do their own thing and trying not to "jade" them with my opinion, but I will say that the difference in path-lenght is most important at 400hz so whatever plays music in your system within an octive of 400hz should have careful consideration on how far away you can get them from you. The farther the better. Your ears hear differently at different frequencies so like tweeters for example, your ears hear more through intesity rather than timing cues so it is easier to manipulate with aiming and processing.with the mids maybe in the dash pointing up or kicks that kept the factory shape would be a couple of places I would start looking at. Don't trust the processor to be able to fix everything with delay. Delay is sweet for sure but it comes at a price in response, and the more you help the ms8 with location the more it will be able to do for you in return. IMO of course. Good luck!!
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Old 01-25-2012, 04:14 AM   #9
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Thanks for posting the pics!

I also just received the Subaru wiring diagrams from another 2012 owner. The HU has a diagnostics screen that mentions the rear camera input.

Quote:
2012-2013 WRX/STI nav (mfg by Fujitsu Ten) [FT navs in Impreza, Crosstrek, Forester, and BRZ all have different model numbers]

Front: FW602US
Fujitsu Ten Type: FT0021A
Subaru: 86271FG600
Rear: WN60

FCC ID: BABFT0021A
IC: 2024B-FT0021A

The 10-pin and 6-pin harnesses are for power and speakers. Subaru is also using those for 2012 Legacy/Outback models with the 'premium' HU with harman/kardon speaker/amp system. Pin-out is almost exactly the same as for recent model Toyotas.

UPDATED: Metra 70-1761 harness fits car's factory harness. That could be combined with a 71-1761 to make a "breakout" harness. Current version of the Metra 71-1761 does not fit without modification. The equivalent reverse harnesses from other manufacturers do fit (Scosche TA02RB, American International TWH-951). However, all of them lack wires on some of the pins Subaru uses.

UPDATED: I now have a combined "breakout" harness with these Toyota-style connectors available. Contact me by e-mail (not PM) for details. See the visitor message on my profile page here (click on my username).

10-pin power/speaker harness
1 2 - - 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10
(orientation: viewing pins on car's factory plug, wires pointed away from you)

Code:
1   RF+
2   LF+
3   +12V Accessory
4   +12V Battery/Constant

5   RF-
6   LF-
7   Ground
8   Power Antenna *
9   [NC]  **
10  Illumination+
* Pin #8 provides power to Subaru's antenna booster amp. This can not be used for the remote trigger signal for a speaker amplifier, since it is only active while in AM/FM mode. On 2012-up Legacy/Outback models whose HUs use Toyota-style harnesses, the power antenna lead is instead on pin #4 on the 6-pin harness.

** Pin #9 is an amp remote turn-on signal on BRZ, 2014 Forester models with the factory harman/kardon amplifier, and some Toyota HUs. On all other Impreza/WRX/STI, Crosstrek, Forester, and Legacy/Outback models, pin #9 is dead.

6-pin power/speaker harness
1 - - 2
3 4 5 6
(orientation: viewing pins on car's factory plug, wires pointed away from you)

Code:
1   RR+
2   LR+

3   RR-
4   [NC]
5   Dimmer (Illumination-)
6   LR-

The 28-pin harness is for BT mic, aux input, SWCs, reverse gear, VSS, and dimming cancellation. The connector is from the same family as the 8- 16- and 24-pin harnesses used for aux on other Subaru models/years.

28-pin SWC/aux/mic harness
1 .. 14
15 .. 28
(orientation: viewing pins on car's factory plug, wires pointed away from you)

Code:
1   [NC]
2   Reverse Gear
3   Illumination Dimmer Cancel ("Bright" mode)
4   Mic 5V power supply to mic amp (separate wire)
5   Mic Audio Input + (twisted w/ pin 19)
6   Mic detect (car ties this pin to chassis ground, does not connect to mic module)
7-10  [NC]
11  [NC] (Ground for aux enable)
12  [NC] ("SG" ?)
13  [NC] Aux Video Input (+) [may not be present on most Subaru HUs]
14  [NC] Aux Video Input shield/ground [may not be present on most Subaru HUs]

15  [NC]
16  [NC]
17  VSS
18  [NC]
19  Mic Audio Input - (twisted w/ pin 5)
20  [NC]
21  SWC1 Audio (Seek, Volume)
22  SWC2 Mode & Phone
23  SWC Common
24  [NC] {SW3 on some Toyota HUs}
25  Aux enable
26  Aux audio Right
27  Aux audio shield/ground
28  Aux audio Left

16-pin rear camera socket
1 ... 8
9 ... 16
(orientation: viewing pins on car's factory plug, wires pointed away from you)

Code:
4  ?
5  ?

6  Parking brake

7  Camera +6V supply (HU sends power to OEM Camera)
8  Camera Video In

15 Ground **
16 Shield/ground

** No connection is needed on this pin.  See notes below.
Impreza/WRX/STI wiring diagrams only show the parking brake lead and a jumper from pin 4 to 5 (not sure what that's for) -- no camera wires.

ADDED: On this HU, apparently no connection to pin 15 is required. I previously thought this was Camera Detect input (similar to a pin on the camera socket on older Subaru models). However, this HU must see a video signal from the camera during boot-up, or it will not enable the camera function. Also, it looks like this HU always adds the distance guide marker lines. You'll need a camera that doesn't have those (or where you can disable them).


You can see a few more pictures on the FCC's site (for certification, since it has a BT transceiver). Go here:
http://fcc.gov/oet/ea/fccid/
then enter the 1st 3 chars and the rest of the HU's FCC ID ("BAB" and "FT0021A"). Several of the docs have pics. See the user manual for annotated drawing of rear connectors (but only limited info on operation).


Diagnostics Mode (UPDATED)

There are two trees of "secret" dealer setup menus. Access to both trees is very similar. Once you're in one, you can't cross over to the other -- you'll have to exit and start over with the other procedure.

Tree 1 (Line Diag, Audio Check, and Rear Camera functions):
  1. Turn your key to ACCessory (no need to crank engine)
  2. Let the HU startup (get past the screen with the "Subaru" or "Toyota" logo). You can skip the navigation startup screens by pressing the AUDIO button to switch to the audio screen.
  3. Next, press and hold AUDIO first, then press and hold the other two buttons ('voice recognition' and MAP). The timing between them isn't critical, as long as you start with AUDIO and end up with all 3 pressed. An owner posted that he simply "rolled his finger down across the 3 buttons" (so your finger presses and holds each one in succession — top, middle, bottom). He said that works reliably.
  4. After holding all of the buttons for about 3 seconds, you should see this "Line Diag" screen pop up:
    .
    (Click to see larger image. Hosted by ImageShack)
  5. To exit the setup menus, press and hold either the AUDIO or VOLUME/power button for about 4 seconds, or turn off your key. The next time you turn on the HU, it will go through its boot sequence (which takes a little longer) and the navigation options setup (same as when you disconnect the battery). It still remembers your radio presets.
Tree 2 (Service Menu):
Procedure is same as above, except start with the MAP button. The timing requirement for when you need to hit the 2nd and 3rd buttons may be a little tighter for this tree.
On the Color Bars screen, you can touch each color to paint the entire screen in that color (pixel test). Touch screen anywhere to return to that menu.
See Lateralis' pictures, below.


Nav HU owner's manual PDFs are available on Subaru's site:
subaru.com/owners/resource-center/owners-manuals/index.html
(Search for year and model. No registration or VIN is required)



[I'll continue editing this post as I learn more]

Last edited by SVXdc; 03-28-2014 at 11:49 PM. Reason: Added info about accessing diagnostics menus; power antenna and amp remote pins; and new combined breakout harness available
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Old 01-27-2012, 06:54 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyeflyistheeye View Post
That's the Toyota influence within Subaru. Subaru always used to use either Clarion (which is a Nissan keiretsu company), Kenwood or Panasonic. Toyota's main stereo manufacturer is Fujitsu Ten. As far as stock headunits go, Fujitsus have always been the best I've had.
Really? All I know is the 2011 Forester and 2012 WRX headunit is the absolute worst factory CD player I have ever experienced. My 06 Accord plays CD's that look like my dog ate with ease, while a fleck of dust causes my SUbaru players to skip like crazy.
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Old 01-27-2012, 08:27 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Divinitus View Post
Really? All I know is the 2011 Forester and 2012 WRX headunit is the absolute worst factory CD player I have ever experienced. My 06 Accord plays CD's that look like my dog ate with ease, while a fleck of dust causes my SUbaru players to skip like crazy.
Is it the Nav or the base unit? I'm not sure what the base unit is since I haven't seen it.
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Old 01-28-2012, 03:43 AM   #12
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Base unit.
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Old 01-28-2012, 04:17 AM   #13
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Updated my previous post with pin-outs and more info.

Pictures of different HUs in 2012 models (from cars101.com site):

Quote:
Fujitsu Ten nav (with HD and XM)



No BT, no USB



With BT & USB



With BT, USB, HD, 4.3" screen

Last edited by SVXdc; 01-29-2012 at 02:11 PM.
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Old 01-28-2012, 02:35 PM   #14
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^^^ Good stuff. I'll let you guys know what I find out about the NC pins when I start messing with it. Should be getting the MS-8 in next week with some other goodies. Excited for my 1st 3-way system!
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Old 01-29-2012, 09:44 PM   #15
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Now Regarding the "Diagnostic Mode". The way you listed SVXdc didn't work quite like that. Here's what I found.

1) You need to put the key ind and turn to the "ACC 2" position. There's 3 positions on the tumbler for acc. 1 does nothing that I noticed. 2 turns on the radio and the clock. 3 turns everything on.

2) Let the H/U go through its normal start up cycle. If you have the map selected hit agree and ok until the nav is up and running.

3) Press the Audio, PTT, and Map button at the same time and HOLD IT. PTT = Push To Talk so its that one in between the Audio and Map Button. It will probably go to the stupid voice recognition and ask for a command. If you did it correctly it will pop up the diagnostic screen in a second or 2. If not release the buttons. Let the H/U cancel the operation and try again.
4) To exit the Diagnostic Menu just turn the car off. When you start it back up it will take a couple of seconds to boot so don't wig out if it doesn't kick on right away.

The Following pics are of everything that I could do while in there which honestly wasn't much.

My Start up screen:




















As you can see I found no speaker test. Only thing it really lets you check is button functions of the H/U and SWCs, Touch screen, color, GPS, and allows you to update the software from there when need be. Interesting thing though is the Rr_CAM. So this means the H/U does check/have the ability to operate with a rear camera. Now we just got to figure out how!
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Old 02-04-2012, 11:48 AM   #16
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Update:

So I got some new goodies in. Got the MS-8, PDX-M12, and the metra harnesses (Thanks David!). Decided to just use both of the PDX4.100's I have instead of getting the new PDX-F6. I'm going to use 1 4ch for the mid-ranges and tweets, than bridge the other 4ch for the mid-basses. I figured why bother amping rear fill so I'm just going to run them off of the MS-8 itself. You're supposed to get like 50W's out of it which should be more than enough.

I'm still waiting on my HAT speakers to come in and the rest of my wiring, so the weekend will be figuring out what I'm going to do for a sub box and amp rack. Contemplating using both W6's I have since the M12 is more than enough to run both.

L->R :M12, 1.600, 1.600, 4.100, 4.100, MS-8


JL 12W6V2's


JL XR 650CXi's - Had these for like 4 years. Awesome little guys.


More to follow as I attack the trunk.. lol
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:14 PM   #17
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I have the same factory nav headunit. does it have a sub preout built in? I don't see a way to control the 'subwoofer' anywhere in the sound options.
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:44 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JebusTheGreat View Post
I have the same factory nav headunit. does it have a sub preout built in? I don't see a way to control the 'subwoofer' anywhere in the sound options.
Not with the 2012 Nav units. With the 2011 Nav's it gives you a sub control. This H/U "MIGHT" have a sub out put that hasn't been verified yet, but for my application I will not need it. This is why I got the PDX-M12 because my PDX-1.600's don't give you the option to have remote bass control.
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Old 02-04-2012, 11:44 PM   #19
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In Foresters, the HU with the 4.3" screen has a line-level sub out and doesn't have any on-screen settings to adjust that output. So there's still a chance this nav has it too. Or it's possible that Foresters get a slightly different model that adds it.
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Old 02-06-2012, 02:15 PM   #20
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SVXdc,

Do you know if the 4.3" unit is a direct swap for my craptastic 2011 unit that has BT?

The handsfree is horrible. Everyone always has a difficult time understanding me and I wonder if its the HU or the microphone that sucks.

Id love to swap the 4.3" unit in as long as my bluetooth SWC will work with it.....
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Old 02-08-2012, 12:50 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdFyre View Post
Do you know if the 4.3" unit is a direct swap for my craptastic 2011 unit that has BT?
I think the 2012 HU w/ 4.3" screen is the same model as was used in 2011...
New OEM Radio Installed into MY11 WRX: Source MY11 Forester
So 20-pin harness will be the same (including SWCs). Mic and aux are on the same pins. I don't know if the 2012's mic is any different (probably same if the HU model number is exactly the same as 2011)..
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:04 AM   #22
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Do you happen to know if the BT features are the same on the 4.3" radio? As in will it read my address book form my phone like other manufacturer's radios? Or is it like my stock one where i have transfer them one by one and give them a name in the HU. (Which really sucks)
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Old 02-12-2012, 01:10 AM   #23
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Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego
Vehicle:
2012 STi ltd
DGM

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Well, I've been pretty slow with the project so far. I don't have a lot of time to work on it, but so far this is what I've accomplished.

1- Piggy backed the alternator with a 4awg line to the battery
2- Made a 4awg grounding kit for the engine bay
3- Ran my 0awg through the fender well
4- deadened the package tray

PicTarZ:


Top ground goes to the intake manifold. the one of the battery is a piggy back to the ground connected to the transmission.


This one connects to the other side of the intake manifold where there is a stock ground. I used a bolt from my mystery bolt bucket that worked nicely.


Piggy baked the alternator with an extra 4awg line. Gotta find a rubber alternator cap now though. Can't do much with that stupid plastic one.


Other side of the intake mani.


Inside the fender well. I saw the little plastic plug that some other guys have been using, but its WAY to small for oawg wire. No way in hell I was going to drill that either.



So instead I punched a hole in the rubber boot and played tug of war with a wire loomed 0awg. yay....


From inside the cab before running the 0awg.


After....


Zip tied the sucker to the existing wire run.


That's what it looks like all cleaned up!
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Old 02-12-2012, 01:24 AM   #24
Lateralis
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Member#: 144421
Join Date: Mar 2007
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego
Vehicle:
2012 STi ltd
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Where she spits out at.


Pulled up the carpet and ran the cable on top of the fuel lines. Zip ties are your friends...


This actually made me glad I ran the 0awg before starting my box build. I pulled the line out of my old wrx and thought I'd be ok. Well, I don't have a lot to work with so this might get interesting lol.

On another note, anyone know what the hell that stuff is on the right?


Package tray getting some ensolite. I got a ton of this crap.


Put Raamat on the underside. Forgot how much I dislike cutting and sticking sound deadening....

While I had the front end up to get into the fender well I decided to test fit my CCW LM20's.... Oh boy do I got some work to do to fit these lol











More to follow!
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Old 02-19-2012, 08:48 PM   #25
Lateralis
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Member#: 144421
Join Date: Mar 2007
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego
Vehicle:
2012 STi ltd
DGM

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Back again with some updates.

First up I connected up the break out harness and tipped EVERYTHING with quick disconnects. When I was doing it I got kinda lazy and didn't want to label everything. So I figured tap everything and if I don't need it no harm no foul, but if I do than less work in the future.



All cleaned up:



Next up is some fiber glass stuff. I decided to put my mid-ranges in kick panels so I fabbed up some kick bases for now. Also I glassed the tire well for the base of my sub box.





While the glass was setting I went ahead and sound proofed and sealed the front doors. I did the door cards too but I forgot to take pics. Meh...



SPEAKER SPACER! eek3.... So the HAT L6's.... are BIG. VERY BIG for where they are going. I didn't realize it at first when I went to make my 1st spacer and the L6's diameter is so big that it covers all the stock mounting points except the top on. So I said screw trying to use the stock locations. The spacers are 1 1/4". Put 1 ring of 3/4" and 1 of 1/5" MDF together and sealed it with some wood glue. Test fit them and they BARELY fit with the door card in. very snug and from what I can tell there will be no issue of the speaker hitting the door card speaker grill especially since the speaker surround is reversed.





Next are the rings for the L4's. When I bought them I got the speaker grills from HAT. So I decided to counter sink the grill so that it would have a smooth transition from carpet to grill when I get there.





Yes that says JL audio lol. To my surprise the rubber magnet protector for my JL xr drivers fit my L4's. The L4's and XR's have the same magnet size lol.

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