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Old 01-20-2012, 10:12 PM   #1
ndtechie_rx8
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Default Techron concentrate plus

Just picked up two 10oz bottles at wal mart tonight. Each. Ottos treats 15gallons. Im planning on throwing in a bottle when on my oil change this week which is also when I'm doing my oil change. Would I be ok just doing one bottle even tho my has tank is slightly larger?
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:55 AM   #2
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Why bother? Your '11 is too new to have any significant fuel system deposits, and as long as you use good quality fuel (Top Tier or equivalent) you are already putting in additives with every fillup.
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Old 01-21-2012, 08:21 AM   #3
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Waste of money.
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Old 01-21-2012, 10:03 AM   #4
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I usually use wawa gas because it is the cheapest so I don't believe it is top tier but I heard to use at every oil change.
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Old 01-21-2012, 09:33 PM   #5
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Do you even know what top tier is? Do you know how many people actually think there is a difference in gas? Do you know they all get it from the same refinery and that by adding just .0000000000000000001 gram of Techron to an entire gas truck magically makes it Exxon vs. adding .0000000000000000001 ounces of Synerblend which would make it Shell? Seriously....worry about something else.

<-------------150,000 miles on a Subaru and uses whatever gas wherever and has never added anything to the gas ever.
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Old 01-23-2012, 03:40 PM   #6
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'top tier' is the best marketing term evar! 'top tier' is a brand of additive package. People assume that because they hear 'top tier' gasoline, they assume that the brand name means something other than being just a brand name.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:33 PM   #7
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i have seen a LOT of fuel issues in the north florida area due to people using walmart/cheap gas...even seen dyno results that showed the difference in fuel...same car..same day....cheap gas v shell 93

shocking

I think this is a regional thing......i know i wouldnt ever buy the cheap gas anywhere.....unless it was just enough to get to where i needed to go to get good gas

a bottle of techron a couple times a year wont hurt......might help

if you DO use it....use it BEFORE your oil change...not after
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:41 PM   #8
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Put it in Sunday morning doing oil change Tomo or Wednesday
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndtechie_rx8 View Post
Put it in Sunday morning doing oil change Tomo or Wednesday
wait till that tank of gas is gone


the instructions on the techron bottle usta tell ya to use it right before an oil change....i usta use it when i had my AE86 before anybody knew what that was
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty

wait till that tank of gas is gone

the instructions on the techron bottle usta tell ya to use it right before an oil change....i usta use it when i had my AE86 before anybody knew what that was
What's the reasoning to wait?
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Old 01-23-2012, 09:03 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndtechie_rx8 View Post
What's the reasoning to wait?
think about it for a while and see if you can answer your own question
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Old 01-24-2012, 10:06 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
Do you even know what top tier is? Do you know how many people actually think there is a difference in gas? Do you know they all get it from the same refinery and that by adding just .0000000000000000001 gram of Techron to an entire gas truck magically makes it Exxon vs. adding .0000000000000000001 ounces of Synerblend which would make it Shell? Seriously....worry about something else.

<-------------150,000 miles on a Subaru and uses whatever gas wherever and has never added anything to the gas ever.
As Scotty said, I think this is very much a state/region thing, and there are really three issues; detergency, octane, and impurities. It all comes from the same refinery, but a gas station that lets water or corrosion accumulate in the tanks will have substantially poorer fuel than one who maintains their systems fastidiously. A friend of mine worked for an independent convenience store in high school. He was instructed to add water to the tanks to bring them close to the maximum allowable entrained water.

All gasoline has to meet DOT minimums for detergency, but Top Tier fuels exceed this minimum by a substantial margin. This is not speculative, Top Tier is a performance spec. Subarus may not care, but some cars do. Think German and/or direct injection.

As for Octane, Around here we have mandated E10 which I think messes with the thinking of the Subaru factory tune. BP 93 runs best, followed by Shell/Exxon 92, followed by 91 from anybody. The difference is not subtle, especially part throttle operation with a cold engine. The fuel comes from one of two refineries, but there's obviously a difference as demonstrated by the octane. When I travel to states which don't have E10, 91 and 92 octane seem to run fine.
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Old 01-24-2012, 09:34 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpshumway View Post
All gasoline has to meet DOT minimums for detergency, but Top Tier fuels exceed this minimum by a substantial margin. This is not speculative, Top Tier is a performance spec. Subarus may not care, but some cars do. Think German and/or direct injection.

A couple of things to ponder... How do you know it exceeds by a substantial margin? (from an unbiased source, not their website) How do you know others do not? And finally, additives aren't contributing to power, they replace fuel in the mixture.
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Old 01-24-2012, 10:11 PM   #14
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Just picked up 2 bottles that treats 12 galllons each for $8 total lol buy 1 get 1 free at my autozone im using it on my 06 sti with 54k miles
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Old 01-25-2012, 12:29 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkramer View Post
A couple of things to ponder... How do you know it exceeds by a substantial margin? (from an unbiased source, not their website) How do you know others do not? And finally, additives aren't contributing to power, they replace fuel in the mixture.
these additives are a very small volume of the fuel total and have no real impact on 'mixture'

you could add a pint of acetone to a tanker full of fuel and it would treat the whole thing

gasoline is really a total witches brew of chemicals and does indeed vary quite widely from region to region and even city to not city in the same state...

i researched fuel a while ago as something that piqued my interest and it is quite alarming some of the things you can find out about it and its distribution

the usa consumes almost 100 MILLION GALLONS of gasoline EVERY DAY

think about THAT
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Old 01-25-2012, 04:11 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkramer View Post
A couple of things to ponder... How do you know it exceeds by a substantial margin? (from an unbiased source, not their website) How do you know others do not? And finally, additives aren't contributing to power, they replace fuel in the mixture.
How is their website biased? The Top Tier Gas organization is an industry group composed of auto makers, namely BMW, General Motors, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen and Audi. In that sense Top Tier is the gasoline equivalent of organizations like ILSAC and ACEA for motor oil. Their goal is to influence the quality of a product which is required for the function of their product, but which they do not produce themselves. They have a detailed list of performance and certification requirements on their website, it's not marketing baloney. Is there some reason you think they're lying?

To address your question about performance just read the relevant regulations and requirements. Top Tier requires intake valve deposits be half what the EPA standard requires. (I said DOT earlier, my apologies).

Now, the test is slightly different, the EPA test requires actually driving a 1985 BMW 318i for 10,000 miles and the Top Tier test is conducted on a dyno, but the results should be similar.

From the Top Tier Gas Website:
Quote:
1.3.1.1 Test Method. Intake valve deposit (IVD) keep clean performance shall be demonstrated using ASTM D 6201, Standard Test Method for Dynamometer Evaluation of Unleaded Spark-lgnition Engine Fuel for Intake Valve Deposit Formation. Tests demonstrating base fuel minimum deposit level (1.3.1.2) and additive performance (1.3.1.3) shall be conducted using the same engine block and cylinder head. All results shall be derived from operationally valid tests in accordance with the test validation criteria of ASTM D 6201. IVD results shall be reported for individual valves and as an average of all valves.
Quote:
1.3.1.3 Demonstration of Performance. The base fuel from 1.3.1.2 shall contain enough deposit control additive such the IVD is no more than 50 mg averaged over all intake valves.
Emphasis added.


From the Code of Federal Regulations
Quote:
Title 40: Protection of Environment
PART 80—REGULATION OF FUELS AND FUEL ADDITIVES
Subpart G—Detergent Gasoline

§ 80.165 Certification test procedures and standards.

(b) Intake valve deposit control testing. The required test fuel must produce the accumulation of less than 100 mg of intake valve deposits on average when tested in accordance with ASTM D 5500–94, “Standard Test Method for Vehicle Evaluation of Unleaded Automotive Spark-Ignition Engine Fuel for Intake Valve Deposit Formation,”
Emphasis added


There are certainly fuel manufacturers who choose not to participate in the Top Tier certification program who nevertheless make excellent fuel, BP is a great example. On the other hand, you can't expect low-cost fuel suppliers like Wal-Mart, Costco, or your local independent convenience store to provide a product which exceeds the minimum regulatory requirements.
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Old 01-25-2012, 06:34 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty

think about it for a while and see if you can answer your own question
Nope can't answer my own question
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Old 01-26-2012, 12:34 PM   #18
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Solvents like Techron degrade your engine oil very quickly when they enter it in the form of piston blow-by. The high concentration of these solvents present when you "shock treat" your system with a whole bottle of cleaner in one tank make this problem worth worrying about. Smaller doses like the quantities inherent in Top Tier fuel or a 3oz dose per tank will not harm oil.

That said, I've done many used oil analysis after shock treating with Techron or Redline SI-1 and have never seen any degradation in the oil I could attribute to the cleaner. The UOAs look no different than those done without a fuel system cleaner.

I think the operative parameter here is your driving during the treated tank. The instructions on some cleaners suggest you do the cleaning during a long highway drive, as the cleaner is most effective on a warm engine, and a warm engine has both minimal blow by and oil which is hot enough to prevent the blow by products from entering the oil.

I suspect the makers of cleaners removed the "change the oil afterward" instruction because they found most engines didn't experience solvency problems in the oil. The recommendation could even be an artifact of carburated engines which dilute fuel much more quickly than FI engies, especially when cold.

If you're going to do city driving on the treated tank, change the oil immediately afterward and don't expect the cleaner to work optimally. If you can do a 250 mile highway trip on that tank, don't worry about changing the oil.

On the other hand, when I do a solvent based intake manifold cleaning like the BG induction service or the 3M DIY kit, I always change the oil immediately afterward, and the effects are usually evident in the subsequent UOA.
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Old 01-26-2012, 09:56 PM   #19
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I have a 60mi round trip commute everyday. 50 of that is all highway. I should be good as far as solvents but the UOA will tell when I do the oil change this weekend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpshumway View Post
Solvents like Techron degrade your engine oil very quickly when they enter it in the form of piston blow-by. The high concentration of these solvents present when you "shock treat" your system with a whole bottle of cleaner in one tank make this problem worth worrying about. Smaller doses like the quantities inherent in Top Tier fuel or a 3oz dose per tank will not harm oil.

That said, I've done many used oil analysis after shock treating with Techron or Redline SI-1 and have never seen any degradation in the oil I could attribute to the cleaner. The UOAs look no different than those done without a fuel system cleaner.

I think the operative parameter here is your driving during the treated tank. The instructions on some cleaners suggest you do the cleaning during a long highway drive, as the cleaner is most effective on a warm engine, and a warm engine has both minimal blow by and oil which is hot enough to prevent the blow by products from entering the oil.

I suspect the makers of cleaners removed the "change the oil afterward" instruction because they found most engines didn't experience solvency problems in the oil. The recommendation could even be an artifact of carburated engines which dilute fuel much more quickly than FI engies, especially when cold.

If you're going to do city driving on the treated tank, change the oil immediately afterward and don't expect the cleaner to work optimally. If you can do a 250 mile highway trip on that tank, don't worry about changing the oil.

On the other hand, when I do a solvent based intake manifold cleaning like the BG induction service or the 3M DIY kit, I always change the oil immediately afterward, and the effects are usually evident in the subsequent UOA.
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Old 01-27-2012, 01:11 PM   #20
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Just to let you know so you do not waste your money. I was using the Lucas gas treatment stuff and I swore that it made the car run better. So I did some testing on my own. First off it gave me about 1.5 to 2 miles more per gallon but with the added cost did not really get me much.

So I decided to do a blind test. I gave my father in law the stuff and told him to put it in or don't and keep the bottle until I came back. So I had no idea of whether it was in or not. I did not monitor gas mileage to see, just drove the car to check for the feel. Well I was wrong every time for 5 times added. You would think I could at least guess right once.
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Old 01-27-2012, 08:02 PM   #21
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Thank-you, gpshumway.

I never knew about Top Tier Gasoling, and I found the linked website very informative.

Frank
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Old 01-27-2012, 10:05 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndtechie_rx8 View Post
Nope can't answer my own question
seriously?

You are adding a cleaner to the system, which if there is a bunch of crud on the valves, etc. will probably remove stuff - a portion of what is removed will end up in your oil. His point is that you might as well run the cleaner through the car, let it do it's job, then change the oil. That way, you get rid of anything which the cleaner deposited into the oil.
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Old 01-28-2012, 12:47 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndtechie_rx8 View Post
Nope can't answer my own question
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrD View Post
seriously?

You are adding a cleaner to the system, which if there is a bunch of crud on the valves, etc. will probably remove stuff - a portion of what is removed will end up in your oil. His point is that you might as well run the cleaner through the car, let it do it's job, then change the oil. That way, you get rid of anything which the cleaner deposited into the oil.
quite amazing that the total and complete lack of logical thought process hasnt lead to the demise of more of us, now isnt it
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Old 01-28-2012, 12:51 AM   #24
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I like toluene......
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Old 01-28-2012, 01:03 AM   #25
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I like toluene......
i ran a mix of 3qt toluene, 2qt xylene and 8oz mineral spirits through my 02 wrx quite frequently

like almost every tank of gas....:banana


that was when it was--relatively....cheap
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