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Old 12-20-2012, 10:29 AM   #26
bearshadow
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Default Rough Idle When Half Warmed Up (Cold Weather) 2008 impreza WRX

vous pouvez voir la meme chose en francais au/you can see this in french at http://www.clubsubaru3r.com/viewtopi...p=33351#p33351

Basically the problem is when it's cold outside like 0f and under when you start the car it run fine and even if you let it idle for like 5 min it's fine, but when you hit the gaz 1 time the choke stop and now the car will almost die down to 500 rpm then back up to 1500 down to 500...every time you stop at a corner or you put on neutral then when the car is hot (15 min highway) the problem is gone.([i]how to be a good customer video ETCG!


FF TO 10:40
for the main point but the rest is interesting


The problem i found ([i]using eric video on vaccum leak using carb cleaner (you can use brake cleaner but it will eat the rubber and plastic(same can be said of carb cleaner but i prefer a spray over the propane hose that can get caught by a pulley.. your choice lol) it worked for me, people told me they had mix result with this, just change the damn gasket it's worth it)
is that between the plastic intake (pic below) and the metal intake when the metal is cold it contracted and the gasket don't fill the gap anymore. It's a manufacture error on the gasket and it's only on late 2007 and early 2008 wrx and legagy gt model.

technical drawing, piece number 14035 (14035AA492 is the exact number, thx to aberg12012 and Hoon Goon for this number)you will need 4 of those


old one


new one


(this is post install) i was doing some wiring for a wideband today and i took these pictures you can see the gasket on it(new)



i did this a week ago on my wrx 2008, the rough idle is completetly gone, idle is a LOT smoother all the time, and i can actually reach my target boost now (16.5) (but the tune i was working on for a year using romraider is useless cause the fuel map (and the rest) are all wrong now... more learning for me i guess lol)

took me like 3-4 hour with a couple of beer.you will NEED dental pick and a small mirror something like this


here what i did with picture


(this picture isn't mine) yellow arrow and circle are bolt or clam to remove,the orange circle is an air pump to be remove too (2 bolts, 1 clam), the orange arrow is the fuel line bracket that will need to be bent up, the blue arrow are optional but it help move the intake a bit

start by removing the intercooler, the air intake and the tube between the air box/motor and the small black coolant tank (unhook the three tubes on top and remove the bolt holding the tank, lift the tank off the plastic nipple and drain the liquid inside a CLEAN bottle you will reuse that).




behind the intake where the intercoller used to be you will need to remove 3 bolts, if you look at the engine from the front start on your left (the last bolt is hidden behind the bov tube), they hold a bracket for electric wire,now you will need to ply this off the intake (push toward the windshield) on the picture you can see how the bracket look.
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Last edited by bearshadow; 10-23-2013 at 07:28 PM.
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:30 AM   #27
bearshadow
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ok so now we need to access the plastic intake gasket



there's 6 bolts on each side holding down the intake THESE ARE TO BE TORQUED BACK AT 6 when you reinstall

when your done you should be able to lift the intake... well maybe not lift as much as gap it



lolook 1 inch above the yellow arrow you can see the red gasket, the gap on the next pic is REALLY big compare to what you will be able to achieve (just wait till the driver side )



you can use something to hold the intake up like this IF YOU DO, PLEASE ONLY DO THAT BETWEEN THE TWO INTAKE, IF YOU SCRATCH THE HEAD WHERE THE GASKET SEAL YOU'LL CRY

this is what we're looking for



the one on the left (top one on second pic) is the old gasket it's a lot harder material and it's about 1/2 the height of the new one. Try not to drop anything inside the intake, take your time and this is where if you don't have dental pick you will lose your temper trying to get the old one out... seriously you will, just buy the ****ing pick!

The two on the passager side are kinda easy to do , make sure when you install the new one that they are completely seated, it's not from the same car but it's like this (yours are round not oval)


now for the fun part, the driver side... basically the problem is that you have about the height of the gasket to work with. if you try to lift the intake you'll soon discover that the fuel line past over it and 1/4 over it to be precise




I used a long screwdriver (2 feet long) and kinda jam it in. you can see it on the left with a welding splatter on it. Above that, you can see the fuel line. A small pry bar can be used too


what i did on that side it (and do this slowly) is remove the old one and 1 by 1 you simply put the gasket on the bottom piece (thumbler) and slowly lower the intake on it, now wiggle the intake with very little pressure on it and the gasket will seat in.

CONFIRM THAT EVERY GASKET IS COMPLETELY SEATED WITH A MIRROR (optional, i could "feel" the gasket with my pick on all of em without mirror but it's a safe thing to do)
Torque back the intake at 6lbs, reinstall everything, fill back the coolant tank with the coolant. (overfill with water until when you put the plug back in, coolant drip you don't want any air in the cooling system)

start the car and check for leak, you will see steam from the antifreeze that drip on the motor but it normal and your done.

(sr if there's a couple of fault, i usually speak french lol)

LAST UPATE 10 FEB 2013

Last edited by bearshadow; 02-10-2013 at 10:20 PM.
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:31 AM   #28
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it also got rid of some knocking i was getting around 3000/3200 rpm lol

Last edited by bearshadow; 12-20-2012 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:49 PM   #29
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Thanks everyone for all the input in this thread! As the OP I just wanted to provide an update since I've yet to do anything about the issue. (Every spring for some reason I forget about it! lol) Obviously this thread has provided me with more than enough info to most likely correct it... when I ever get off my lazy butt.

This winter the "rough idle when half warmed up" issue has gotten worse three fold on my 2008 WRX. This year it's doing it when it's much warmer (25-30 degrees) out and is even more pronounced. Last year it had to be under 15 or 20 degrees to show up and it wasn't nearly as noticeable. This morning when I left work it was -1 and it was the closest I've ever seen to it dying at the stop light about 1/2 mile down the road from my work. Had I not been able to get my foot off the brake and stab the throttle quick enough it would certainly have died. I have no idea what the actual coolant temp was, but it was at the 1/4 mark on the gauge. (Roughly half warmed up.)

More so this year it keeps doing it even after the motor seems to be fully warmed up at times. When it's 25-30 degrees it takes a good run down the highway to warm things up enough and if it's cold like this morning (-1) it never goes away even after my 10 mile freeway stint. This morning it was still stumbling when I stopped for the light at the bottom of the exit ramp. It wasn't until I stopped for gas that the engine compartment built up enough heat for the issue to go away.

It's not thrown any codes this year, however, certainly only because I make sure to keep the RPM's above about 1K when I come to a stop to keep it from throwing it's self into limp mode. It's a tricky dance, when the pedals aren't really oriented correctly for on throttle braking. lol

Anyways I'm going to talk to the subaru dealer one of these days... obviously the advice given above (intake gaskets) likely is my answer. Bad gaskets get worse with time(?) so it probably makes sense that it's worse this year. Wonder how it'll be next winter if I don't get off my lazy butt...
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:45 AM   #30
bearshadow
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just like you my problem was 10 time worst this winter. it was -25 this morning, car wasn't hard to start (synthetic oil) and the idle is rock solid. Find a heated place to fix it.

Last edited by bearshadow; 01-03-2013 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:22 AM   #31
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Glad I saw this. I noticed my car doing this for the first time last night when I left work, it was about 13 F. I'll probably fix it in the spring since its not too bad. (I notice every little noise, even when its coming from another car, being an ex-mechanic is a blessing and a curse)
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:47 PM   #32
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Default where to buy!?

Anyone know what part number the better gaskets are? I have a Subaru dealer near me who always has stuff in stock. And if not, any aftermarket alternatives? I'm also assuming you'll need 4 gaskets to do this? Shouts to Bearshadow for his awesome write up!
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:43 AM   #33
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Part Number: 14035AA492

Should come in a 4 pack for around 20 bucks or single for around 5. I visited my local subaru parts guy and he confirmed the above #. He explained that the early 08' wrx's were (obviously) made in 2007 in which they used the older LGT gaskets. If I recall the actual cut off date on the part numbers was 10/2007 or something like that. Any WRX assembled after that date supposedly has the updated gaskets. So his assumption is that all of us having this issue have early 2008 models. (Mine certainly is.)

Anyways their book quoted about 2 hours labor to change them. I've decided to give it a go myself. God help me... lol
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:47 AM   #34
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thanks aberg! I called the dealer near me here in the Bronx, NY and he'll check up on it for me
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Old 01-04-2013, 05:22 PM   #35
aberg12012
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Most the online retailers that have OEM parts also carry the gaskets if your local dealer gives you funny looks. Just google the part number and one of the first links is a place I've used many times.

Of the few times I've had my car into my local dealer for work, the service guys there always seem to have that "you must be stupid" look on their face when I try and explain what the issue is. Yea, it's a bit like going to the doctor and saying "I must have 'xyz' illness because I read it on WebMD."

Ironically this last visit I found the guy behind the parts counter to be the most knowledgeable and helpful person there. I mentioned this to him and he explained it's simply because the service dept doesn't see a lot of WRX/STI's because 1.) we are a very small minority of Subaru sales and 2.) most of us do our own work anyways. He said the only reason he might seem more knowledgeable is because of a close friend who pieces together old subies and is always asking him to look up weird and strange part #'s.

...I'm walking past the service counter and straight to the parts counter from now on. =D

Last edited by aberg12012; 01-04-2013 at 05:30 PM.
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Old 01-12-2013, 06:58 PM   #36
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UPDATE BUMP!!! I finally got some time in my busy ass life to put these new o-rings in. After the dealership order me some tumbler assembly gaskets instead of the Intake Manifold to Tumbler O-Rings and many discussions and forum views on here and the LEgacy forums, I finally threw these ****ers in! Took me almost all day to do it but it has been done.

Verdict: What. A. PAIN. IN. THE. ASS.!!!!

The driver side of the manifold is basically unworkable unless you have some dental picks or automotive picks (which i picked up from autozone for like $10). I kept on yanking the little tabs off the old o-rings so I just gave in, walked to the store and bought the picks. As for putting the new ones into the driver side, the "set and wiggle" trick is the ONLY way to do that without yanking out the fuel lines.

I really hate Subaru for placing those lines in between the plenums...that **** wasnt necessary lol.

Anyway, after putting all the stuff together, I couldn't find the vacuum hose that ran from the BPV to the manifold. It had popped out when i pulled off the intercooler.

Besides those 2 blips, everything else ran smoothly. The resevoir tank removal was kinda messy, but in the end it all worked out great.

I reflashed the ECU with my Cobb AP to 93 Stage 1+SF Intake HighWasteGate map since for some reason I wasn't hitting the 14.5 PSI on 93 octane.

Turned the key and let it warm up. Went for a spirited drive around downtown Yonkers, almost killing like 3 people (LOL), but the idle seems to be ALOT smoother. I have yet to test out the cold-morning start problem, but we shall this in full swing tomorrow.

WHEW!

FYI: If you plan on doing this procedure, do what I did and read Bearshadow's writeup and the Legacy Forums one in full detail. It will save you ALOT of grief.

Thanks to Aberg and Bearshadow. Couldn't have done it without you guys!!!
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Old 01-12-2013, 08:38 PM   #37
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o8 WRX same issue. Even down here in warm (relatively anyway) Tennessee I was noticing it when the temps got below 35F, or so. I am going to replace them the weekend after next. I heard a slight boost leak today during a club run (we were 71F today) because I could finally roll my windows down for a while. I suspect this is the issue, as I have noticed a little rough idling at operating temp as well.

As bad as mine does it when down in the upper 20s I still have not had a cel. However, my AP log was showing a rough idle on cylinder 3. I am going to do them all. I am scared about the drivers side access, so I am going see if I can get that fuel line loose and out of the way to make installation a bit easier. I will give an update to let you know if it was worth it. I may just say eff it and do like bearcat suggests.

It is times like this that this site is great. Thanks guys!

By the way bearcat, your English is much better than my French!

Last edited by Hoon Goon; 01-12-2013 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:15 AM   #38
aberg12012
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Thanks for the updates. Hoon, let me know on the fuel lines please. I was thinking it shouldn't be that hard to get them out of the way but I'm sure it requires special tools(?) Not to mention lots of gas probably will siphon out...

I'm still waiting on UPS to drop off the gaskets. Should of gone through my local dealer...
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:32 AM   #39
bearshadow
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nystateofmind308
Quote:
The driver side of the manifold is basically unworkable unless you have some dental picks or automotive picks (which i picked up from autozone for like $10). I kept on yanking the little tabs off the old o-rings so I just gave in, walked to the store and bought the picks. As for putting the new ones into the driver side, the "set and wiggle" trick is the ONLY way to do that without yanking out the fuel lines.
bearshadow
Quote:
took me like 3-4 hour with a couple of beer.you will NEED dental pick and a small mirror
lol

i've updated the post with 2 video, the second one is a test you can do to find vaccum leak DON'T DO IT WITH AN HOT ENGINE!

Last edited by bearshadow; 01-13-2013 at 05:56 PM.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:12 PM   #40
Hoon Goon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aberg12012 View Post
Thanks for the updates. Hoon, let me know on the fuel lines please. I was thinking it shouldn't be that hard to get them out of the way but I'm sure it requires special tools(?) Not to mention lots of gas probably will siphon out...

I'm still waiting on UPS to drop off the gaskets. Should of gone through my local dealer...
Will do. I hope that these come in before Friday so I can attack it (ordered from local dealer)! I will look tomorrow for any special disconnect tool requirements, but if so I will go see if I can buy one at a local parts store. I fear no fuel spray as long as the engine is cool. From past projects I have found that most pressure is bled off after a few hours anyway. An overnight cool down should be good to go.

By the way, I used MAF cleaner instead of brake cleaner and verified that I have a vacuum leak when starting up in the morning and when warmed up right at the gasket area. I sprayed around the intake bolts and whamo! I also did some AP logging the other morning and verified that my Air Fuel Learning (fuel trim) data was all over the place (rich as a foot up a bull's butt) due to the ECU trying to compensate for the leak. I have been running the Cobb economy tune and babying it around to be safe.

Thanks again for the insight guys!
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:44 PM   #41
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Keep us posted. I just recently started having the same symptoms. I just need a weekend to get this done. I've heard one side is super quick, and the other is the most time consuming.

cheers,
kyle
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Old 01-23-2013, 02:40 AM   #42
aberg12012
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Yea, I finally got the new gaskets however im just not sure after looking at it that this will be worth the headache of doing it myself. lol


Im going to wait till spring and see if warmer weather provides more abition. for now i have the idle raised to around 900 which has made it livable. my fuel trims in learning view are also nothing abnormal so im not too concerned there.


EDIT: As a side note, I installed a wideband O2 sensor a few days ago which has really made me realize how bad the vacuum leak is. It runs suuuuuper lean in that condition at idle. I'm taling like 19 or 20 AFR! Not that it'd hurt much at idle, but it just forced me to stop thinking "it's no big deal..."

Last edited by aberg12012; 01-24-2013 at 08:39 AM.
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:40 AM   #43
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Glad I'm not the only one with this issue. I've had this problem start up this week (we've been hanging right around 0 in the mornings).

Initially I thought the car was trying to tell me something as I started to spec out a (suspension) mod sheet for the summer on Tuesday when it set misfire DTCs on all 4 cylinders and lit the cluster up like a Christmas tree.

I'm thinking this may be one for the service department (gotta love that 100k mile powertrain warranty). It's too damn cold out right now for me to be bothered with it. I've gone ahead and bookmarked this thread. Definitely a good find.
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:51 AM   #44
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I'm more worried about overspeeding my turbo so I've been driving like a granny
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:51 AM   #45
Hoon Goon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P-Train View Post
I'm more worried about overspeeding my turbo so I've been driving like a granny
It is always good to granny it when you even think there may be issues. Especially on turbo cars!
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:51 AM   #46
Kicnit
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This week has been especially hard with mine. Its been about 0 deg without the windchill when I leave for work. Until it warms up fully its stumble, and sounds like I have a cam. But in all honesty i'm just waiting for the weather to warm a bit so I can dig into it.

cheers,
kyle
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:02 AM   #47
Hoon Goon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aberg12012 View Post
Yea, I finally got the new gaskets however im just not sure after looking at it that this will be worth the headache of doing it myself. lol


Im going to wait till spring and see if warmer weather provides more abition. for now i have the idle raised to around 900 which has made it livable. my fuel trims in learning view are also nothing abnormal so im not too concerned there.


EDIT: As a side note, I installed a wideband O2 sensor a few days ago which has really made me realize how bad the vacuum leak is. It runs suuuuuper lean in that condition at idle. I'm taling like 19 or 20 AFR! Not that it'd hurt much at idle, but it just forced me to stop thinking "it's no big deal..."
It is definitely a big deal. Even when it is not noticable during idle at warm temps there is still a liiitle leak in the system. Vacuum/boost leaks are real big deals on turbo cars. Not so much on a N/A car, but still.

It sucks that I am more concerned with my car's short and long term health than my own. Life of a true addict I suppose!

My gaskets just showed up at my office. I am going in hard tomorrow. I will update everyone on getting the fuel lines out of the way. I would like to pull the manifold completely off. Dang it will be hard looking at those TGVs knowing I won't have the stuff to ditch them while I am in there! Maybe this project will give me the balls to do something about them this spring... This is my DD so send me any mental mojo that you may have to spare! I am a parking lot mechanic right now. Actually, I am a work on my car at my storage unit mechanic right now. Going to be cold, but I am HARD CORE. Got to heal my baby. Poor thing.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:30 AM   #48
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^^ Good luck. Keep us posted. I might attempt mine this weekend as well.

cheers,
kyle
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:51 AM   #49
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anyone have a link to the thicker gasket? couldnt find it on oako's site. i found the smaller stock one i must be bad at searching
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:15 PM   #50
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Hoon, best of luck to ya man, mine was a real pain, fun, but a pain!
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