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Old 11-27-2012, 11:23 AM   #101
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Old thread bump I know, but I didn't think it worthy of its own thread. Anyway this article came across my news feed yesterday:

http://www.law.com/corporatecounsel/...its_the_Brakes

Quote:
SAN FRANCISCO — After two years as general counsel at Tesla Motors, Eric Whitaker has stepped down from his post at the electric carmaker.

Whitaker, who resigned earlier this month, said he cut outside legal spending by 70 percent, quadrupled the number of in-house attorneys and helped build the company's patent portfolio during his tenure.

"We wish him the best of luck with his next endeavor," Tesla communications manager Shanna Hendriks wrote in an email. She declined to comment on the search for Whitaker's successor.

"When I accepted the job at Tesla, it had a reputation of being a very difficult environment for lawyers," Whitaker said. "In the last two years, we have shown that lawyers can be effective and successful there."

Whitaker was Tesla's third general counsel in just more than three years. Former Yahoo general counsel Jonathan Sobel, who took the reins from Craig Harding in September 2009, resigned after several months. His departure left the company without a general counsel as it conducted its initial public offering in 2010.

Whitaker said he decided to leave Tesla before securing his next job so he would have ample time to weigh his options. He is in talks with several companies and has already received a job offer.

The company has had to confront various legal hurdles to grow. Certain states, for example, bar manufacturers from owning dealerships directly, Whitaker noted. In one of his last efforts on behalf of Tesla, Whitaker fought a lawsuit filed by the Massachusetts State Automobile Dealers Association to stop the company from operating a dealership in the state.

Whitaker said that he was "jubilant" when he learned Monday that the plaintiffs' request for a preliminary injunction had been denied earlier this month. Massachusetts State Automobile Dealers Association v. Tesla Motors, 01691B, was the first formal legal action taken against Tesla by a dealership, and Whitaker said he is now confident that the company will be able to fend off objections in other states.

"It is really critical for the company that it be able to implement its sales and distribution strategy as planned," he said.
Not sure if there's anything to be read into that but it's odd that Tesla cannot - or will not - retain GCs.
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Old 12-02-2012, 07:31 PM   #102
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Yeah, Tesla has absolutely nothing to offer the automotive world :

Tesla Model S: Motor Trend's 2013 Car of the Year - http://www.motortrend.com/oftheyear/...tesla_model_s/


2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S -
http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...s/viewall.html


Tesla Model S: The 2013 Yahoo! Autos Car of the Year -
http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoram...165907072.html

Ride in one, or Drive one...I guarantee you will have an altered perspective.
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:17 PM   #103
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those mags prove that the tesla model S is the most innovative electric hybrid car. THat is how they choose these things. Being the first among a list of cars nobody wants, is hardly doing the world a favor.

Yes, I still think they are nifty pieces of tech, but they are completely overpriced toys confined to only niche purchasers.

They offer next to nothing for the average consumer.

Meh, the sales numbers will tell the tale...

Merry Christmas everybody
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:59 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
those mags prove that the tesla model S is the most innovative electric hybrid car. THat is how they choose these things. Being the first among a list of cars nobody wants, is hardly doing the world a favor.

Yes, I still think they are nifty pieces of tech, but they are completely overpriced toys confined to only niche purchasers.

They offer next to nothing for the average consumer.

Meh, the sales numbers will tell the tale...

Merry Christmas everybody
The expensive toys are often a precursor to lower priced goodies. I heard the FR-S benefited from the electrically assisted steering researched for the LFA.
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:40 AM   #105
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So a neighbor has bought an S. Maybe I can get a test drive and report back.
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:59 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by mhoward1 View Post
So a neighbor has bought an S. Maybe I can get a test drive and report back.
There's a Tesla Store in Atlanta (assuming that's where you are). You can sign up through them to get an official test drive should your neighbor have cold feet:

http://www.teslamotors.com/own/testdrive
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:02 AM   #107
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No, I am about 6 hours away from there. NC.
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:11 AM   #108
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Oof. Nothing near you: http://www.teslamotors.com/locations . Your idea of hitting up your neighbor wins!
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:19 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
those mags prove that the tesla model S is the most innovative electric hybrid car. THat is how they choose these things. Being the first among a list of cars nobody wants, is hardly doing the world a favor.

Merry Christmas everybody
They are not hybrids. Hybrids are far more nifty tech IMO and certainly more complicated. Teslas are simply electrics.

Merry Christmas Scrappy and everyone else too
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:17 AM   #110
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It depends on what you mean by more complicated. Mechanically yes hybrids are more complicated. Electrically no. The batteries and charging systems are more complicated on the S than any hybrid on the market.

Scrappy is right though the tech is still to expensive (and probably still too early) for the average consumer at this point. I guess the hope for the S is a beginning of the progress away from expensive platforms like the roadster to a cheaper higher production model. As a new company they cant just jump from one to the other. They needed a model to help pay for the r&d and production expansion. Yep the sales figures will say everything. We'll have to wait a while though as theyre sold out for the first years worth of production. The years after the first wave of buyers will be the true indicator.
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:18 AM   #111
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You have made an assertion, but I see no evidence whatsoever that you are correct.

The S is more complicated than the Leaf, but both are electrics. What is more complicated about the charging and battery system on the S than say the Volt or Karma?
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:56 AM   #112
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Not getting into too much detail, just look at the charge rates and capacities of the three. Its not just as simple as adding more batteries or a bigger breaker in the charger. The karma is the closest in complexity but look how thats turned out for fisker a bunch of extra crispy karmas.

After coffee edit: Not saying that other parts of hybrids aren't electrically more complicated. Obviously the S or other electrics have no need for ECU's or emissions and power transfer controls. I should have specified just the charging and battery controls and safety sytems are more complicated, otherwise you are right.

Last edited by elirentz; 12-04-2012 at 08:56 AM.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:46 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elirentz View Post
Not getting into too much detail, just look at the charge rates and capacities of the three. Its not just as simple as adding more batteries or a bigger breaker in the charger. The karma is the closest in complexity but look how thats turned out for fisker a bunch of extra crispy karmas.
One.. one Karma caught fire due to a short circuit in a cooling fan on the radiator. The others that caught fire were all next to each other on a submerged dock and it was determined (by Fisker and the NHTSA) that the cause was a control unit in one of the cars being submerged in salt water for several hours. Complexity didn't cause any of those fires.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:22 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post

One.. one Karma caught fire due to a short circuit in a cooling fan on the radiator. The others that caught fire were all next to each other on a submerged dock and it was determined (by Fisker and the NHTSA) that the cause was a control unit in one of the cars being submerged in salt water for several hours. Complexity didn't cause any of those fires.
Yeah I know it was a joke. I like the karma but they havent exactly been known to be reliable.
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:40 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
Yes, I still think they are nifty pieces of tech, but they are completely overpriced toys confined to only niche purchasers.

They offer next to nothing for the average consumer.
And so were the first cars.
Tesla isn't building the "Model T" of EVs here, and it's probably a smart move. Every attempt at building the "everyman's" EV to date has been a resounding flop, from the EV1 to the Leaf, for a slew of reasons that could be en entire thread on its own.

Going after the high end of the market might just be the smartest thing Tesla's doing, and if it works, will provide the monetary subsidy/incentive for them to work at reducing the cost of their systems to allow them to move into more modest vehicles.

How many technologies haven't started off as expensive, impractical "toys", that only later trickle down to the average consumer?

Some of you sound like a guy from 1895 looking at a Benz Patent Motorwagen and declaring that the automobile will never be practical or catch on.
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:54 PM   #116
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It's not outrageously expensive if you spec out a lower option, "small" battery option. The base 40 kWh dwarfs all but the similarly Tesla-powered RAV4 EV's 41.8 kWh.

Currently it sits at $50k after the full tax credit, assuming one makes enough to have that much tax liability, rising $2.5k after Jan 1, 2013. Even near-luxury regular cars are in that range these days, e.g. 3 series.
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:16 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elirentz View Post
Not getting into too much detail, just look at the charge rates and capacities of the three. Its not just as simple as adding more batteries or a bigger breaker in the charger. The karma is the closest in complexity but look how thats turned out for fisker a bunch of extra crispy karmas.

After coffee edit: Not saying that other parts of hybrids aren't electrically more complicated. Obviously the S or other electrics have no need for ECU's or emissions and power transfer controls. I should have specified just the charging and battery controls and safety sytems are more complicated, otherwise you are right.
I am only talking about the charging and battery.

Battery charge rates are properly compared in C-rate terms. And from where I sit there is nothing special about the S. The volt has fancy schamncy cooling, the fisker did as well (though they haven't yet mastered how to use a hose clamp ).

What is coming out of the wall has nothing to do with the car 20, 30, 40, 50, 80 amps etc... The vehicle designers can choose to accommodate different charging standards. DC fast charging has no purpose for a PHEV, but the new GM EV supports DC fast charging. It only takes 20minutes and is using the new SAE standards. I am completely unimpressed with proprietary charging standards which are destined to fail. It is silly that they can't sign onto the same standard as others since the charge points installed are therefore less useful. I know this stuff is early, but I certainly hope Tesla in the future will work with standards organizations to try and get future vehicles to be more compatible with a wider array of DC fast charging infrastructure.
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:49 PM   #118
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Do you count CHAdeMO (iMiEV + Leaf) as a proprietary level 3 charging standard?
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:57 PM   #119
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Saw a white one today pass me on 128 in MA. Alot bigger in person. Looks good and very wide. The only thing I didn't like was the rear...seemed a bit unfinished style wise.

Still waiting on a cheaper and quicker to charge lighter battery for it to make sense to me, but it will be bought by people who have multiple cars.
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:58 PM   #120
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Quote:
Tesla Model S keeps AW editor at home
We're glad he's wearing rubber-soled shoes



The Tesla Model S is faster to 60 mph than a BMW M5. It runs on electricity and has range of more than 200 miles. If you live in California, you'll have access to free supercharging stations. Of course, that all hinges on getting it out of the driveway.

Autoweek editor Rory Carroll is currently 50 miles from the magazine's Detroit office, stranded by the Model S sedan. But it's not a range issue—the car just won't come unplugged at the charging port.

Carroll took to the Twitterverse for help.



It starts out innocently enough:

@Rory_Carroll: Model S won't release charger. #ModelStranded

@Rory_Carroll: Waiting for #Tesla service center to tell me how to proceed. #ModelStranded



Yahoo's Justin Hyde suggests Contra codes as a solution, while Jalopnik's Matt Hardigree suggests a more practical measure:

@Justin_Hyde: Up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A

@MattHardigree: Unplug the other end and toss it in the trunk.

@Rory_Carroll: Tried it. Won't move when plugged in.



Then new ideas start rolling in:

@Cars_and_Connor: Tweet Tesla until they send a tech out!

@StickShift_VF: 3 ideas 1) lock and unlock the car, 2) power the vehicle off and on, 3) TESLA TAIL

We're not sure what that last one is, but we hope he tries it.

Then the jokes come:

@cschiff: Is your spaceship broken?

@Rory_Carroll: Yes. Unfortunately it's also my getting to work ship.

A call is also placed from AW offices to Tesla PR.



As of now he's given up, returning to the kitchen table:

@Rory_Carroll: Well, I'm working from home, @TeslaMotors seems to be on the case. #ModelStranded

@Rory_Carroll: Model S=life of luxury. Ate real breakfast, sipping coffee, watching it charge. #ModelStranded

Good luck out there Rory, we'll be watching!


Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/2012...#ixzz2E8PBWXf6
*snort*
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:19 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
Do you count CHAdeMO (iMiEV + Leaf) as a proprietary level 3 charging standard?
Not really given that it is at least separate manufacturers involved more than mitsubishi and nissan also. It is very similar to SAE in that way, but I still would prefer everyone could just get on board the same standards. These are not ipod accessories that apple wants their cut of.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:35 PM   #122
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He should have called Tes-support - the call center is in India, but they give you an 800 number from the US - though hold times are currently much higher than normal...
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:20 AM   #123
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@ #ModelStranded
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:05 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sxotty View Post
I am only talking about the charging and battery.

Battery charge rates are properly compared in C-rate terms. And from where I sit there is nothing special about the S. The volt has fancy schamncy cooling, the fisker did as well (though they haven't yet mastered how to use a hose clamp ).

What is coming out of the wall has nothing to do with the car 20, 30, 40, 50, 80 amps etc... The vehicle designers can choose to accommodate different charging standards. DC fast charging has no purpose for a PHEV, but the new GM EV supports DC fast charging. It only takes 20minutes and is using the new SAE standards. I am completely unimpressed with proprietary charging standards which are destined to fail. It is silly that they can't sign onto the same standard as others since the charge points installed are therefore less useful. I know this stuff is early, but I certainly hope Tesla in the future will work with standards organizations to try and get future vehicles to be more compatible with a wider array of DC fast charging infrastructure.
The volt charges its 16 kWh from a 240 v outlet in 3 hours. The base model S charges 40 kWh pack in 4 hrs from a 240v outlet. The car definitely has an effect on the current coming out of the wall as the loads will be different for different chargers and charge rates.

I'm not saying the S is drastically more advanced just that it does charge faster. I'd say the crash test record shows the battery safety systems in the S are better as well . Not trying to take anything away from the volt it obviously has its pluses. Same with the karma.

I agree about the proprietary charging thing. For Tesla to be successful in the future they need to get on board and help push the standards forward.

Last edited by elirentz; 12-06-2012 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:20 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lboogie View Post
Yeah, Tesla has absolutely nothing to offer the automotive world :

Tesla Model S: Motor Trend's 2013 Car of the Year - http://www.motortrend.com/oftheyear/...tesla_model_s/


2013 Automobile of the Year: Tesla Model S -
http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...s/viewall.html


Tesla Model S: The 2013 Yahoo! Autos Car of the Year -
http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoram...165907072.html

Ride in one, or Drive one...I guarantee you will have an altered perspective.
I worked indirectly with Tesla. I was working with Toyota on their Rav4-EV which uses the Tesla motor and battery system. Judging by the inability of Tesla engineers to answer or even understand some very basic points of vehicle design and safety I won't go near a Model S. It may be a fantastic vehicle, but Tesla are still growing and still need to hire a few hundred more automotive engineers before they will achieve a quality level and reliability worth comparing to the rest of the automotive world. They won car of the year because the one they provided for tests actually worked. It is new and amazing technology. It isn't yet mass produced. It hasn't been out long enough to prove any sort of quality. It's a neat car and a great idea. They have a long way to go before they are worthy of the awards they've been handed.



Quote:
Originally Posted by elirentz View Post
The volt charges its 16 kWh from a 240 v outlet in 3 hours. The base model S charges 40 kWh pack in 4 hrs from a 240v outlet. The car definitely has an effect on the current coming out of the wall as the loads will be different for different chargers and charge rates.

I'm not saying the S is drastically more advanced just that it does charge faster. I'd say the crash test record shows the battery safety systems in the S are better as well . Not trying to take anything away from the volt it obviously has its pluses. Same with the karma.

I agree about the proprietary charging thing. For Tesla to be successful in the future they need to get on board and help push the standards forward.
Tesla does appear to have the best motor and battery technology. Why else would Toyota have partnered with them for the Rav4-EV? They want to test and examine the technology and learn how to make their own EV drive systems as good. Any of the major auto manufacturers will build a better overall car than Tesla at this point. Tesla does not have the built up binder of lessons learned for all the various features and processes that go into producing a vehicle. I hope they get there.
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