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Old 02-02-2012, 09:48 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default Cadillac Puts Hold on ATS Coupe

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Old 02-02-2012, 02:19 PM   #2
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I wish the management at GM would run Al Qaeda. That way, nobody would ever get hurt.
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Old 02-02-2012, 02:45 PM   #3
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You see, I cannot help but like you when you say things like this...

Man, stop playing with my emotions...
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:14 PM   #4
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Frankly, they should use a coupe on ATS's platform as a Buick. (Chevy already has several coupes, Corvette, Camaro, and probably a Cruze-based coupe at some point)

A RWD Grand National coupe, based on ATS under-pinnings, with CTS-like V6, backed by a dual-clutch (it is buick, after all... can we hope for a manual?)

Something a bit different than a Chevy, but not stepping on CTS Coupe's toes in terms of price, luxury, or similar styling.
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:15 PM   #5
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^^^^+1

I hope GM builds the next Regal on the ATS platform...that way we could probably see a better GS model...if GM produced a Regal based on this platform while retaining a design similar to the current model, it would be a hit. As far as the ATS goes...I don't blame GM for slowing down...they've pumped out a stellar line of vehicles recently including high performance models. Allowing the ATS to make its mark on the market in sedan form before building variants is probably a good idea to see how the vehicle is accepted.
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:04 AM   #6
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I am going to go ahead and put my veto in for ANY 2 door car made from what was originally a 4 door car. Yes, that means the old GC's. The 4 door proportions always look right, and the 2 door look forced.

The 3 series coupe looks weird and forced, the 4 door has a natural balance
The CTS coupe looks like a wedge of cheese, where the 4 door looks solid and composed.
Traditionally large 2 door cars are weird looking to me. But I only have one vote, and I am sure I am in the minority.

I think a 2 door ATS would look goofy, but the designers may prove me wrong.
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Old 02-03-2012, 02:15 PM   #7
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The Caddy Converj concept was pretty good looking.

Take that general form, put it on the ATS chassis, RWD, I4 or V6, perhaps turbocharged power choice, with a dual-clutch gearbox and a limited slip. They could push the front wheels a bit further forward with that sort of chassis, and reduce the front overhang. Converj show car is basically a Volt underneath.

Give it a bit softer edges than the caddy-brand design, paint it black. Call it Grand National (turbo as GNX, perhaps) at the Buick dealer, so not to step on CTS coupe's toes.
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Old 02-03-2012, 02:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I am going to go ahead and put my veto in for ANY 2 door car made from what was originally a 4 door car. Yes, that means the old GC's. The 4 door proportions always look right, and the 2 door look forced.

The 3 series coupe looks weird and forced, the 4 door has a natural balance
The CTS coupe looks like a wedge of cheese, where the 4 door looks solid and composed.
Traditionally large 2 door cars are weird looking to me. But I only have one vote, and I am sure I am in the minority.

I think a 2 door ATS would look goofy, but the designers may prove me wrong.
That's a good point, BUT how does Cadillac compete against a 3er coupe when it doesn't have a coupe to offer?
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Old 02-03-2012, 03:14 PM   #9
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I have not figured that out yet. But it is a glaring hole in the lineup.

They could just say screw it and concentrate on 1 body style keeping the costs down for that one instead of making a complete separate set of molds for an undoubtedly uglier 2 door version.
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Old 02-03-2012, 03:38 PM   #10
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The thing is... BMW doesn't have a coupe smaller than 5-series, in addition to a 3-coupe... BMW does have the 1-series coupe smaller yet, though.

CTS coupe is already near 3-series coupe price, and power, and is simply a bit larger in overall size.

ATS coupe trying to approximate 3-series coupe 2+2 size, ALSO with a V6, would be VERY close to CTS coupe.

3-series coupe is well established. 1-series coupe is somewhat criticized for being so close to 3-series coupe, with similar engines, similar weight, and similar price, and all you get is just a cramped interior as a difference.

1M Coupe is slightly more distinct, but only because it is filling the role M3 used to, before it skyrocketed in price, and got a V8 engine, and people liked the idea of a successor to the E36 M3... even though 1M doesn't look nearly as clean, IMHO.

The only thing above 3-series coupe, is 6-series coupe, which is well above, with plenty of space in the lineup.

ATS coupe and CTS coupe would be like two people trying to walk through the same door at the same time, and getting their shoulders wedged in the door frame.

That is why I suggest that GM still make the ATS coupe, capitalize on that chassis platform, and move it over to Buick, to go through a different door.

The thing is... keeping it as a sedan means higher costs... as the fixed costs of the platform would only be borne by one model. Making several models on one platform defrays the R&D and manufacturing infrastructure costs across a wider sales base. That has been GM's deal since nearly the beginning, and why they have more than one brand, and got so slap-happy with the re-badging in the 80s and 90s.

Handing the coupe version to Buick would also serve to help avoid the dilution of Caddy into a direct competitor with Buick, with a more than one model below the CTS family. ATS is going to have enough of a job avoiding the Cimarron/Catera stigma that smaller Caddys have had in the past.

Conversely, I can see ATS sedan and Regal possibly clashing a bit if both of those were in the same Buick showroom. Buick needs the Zeta-based RWD Park Avenue, based on the extended Holden Commodore platform, more than it needs a RWD vs FWD fight with the Regal vs. compact ATS sedan.

Splitting the ATS, as a caddy sedan, and a buick coupe gives both brands what they can use, and prevents intra-brand model infighting with same-body-style competitors.

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 02-03-2012 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 02-03-2012, 07:51 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
The thing is... BMW doesn't have a coupe smaller than 5-series, in addition to a 3-coupe... BMW does have the 1-series coupe smaller yet, though.
Huh??
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:24 PM   #12
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BMW ftw!
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:00 PM   #13
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I wish the management at GM would run Al Qaeda. That way, nobody would ever get hurt.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:06 PM   #14
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Huh??
This is discussing ATS coupe, and CTS coupe, in comparison to BMW's lineup.

ATS is going after 3-series. GM says so. CTS is slightly larger, nearly 5-series size, for just over 3-series money.

CTS coupe is smaller than BMW 6-series, and much less expensive, and therefore closer in price to BMW 3-series, especially 335.

BMW 3 series coupe does not have another coupe competitor lower on the chart of size or price, than 5-series sedan, or aforementioned 6-series coupe.

CTS coupe does fit that position for Cadillac, and adding an ATS coupe directly under CTS coupe, very close in price and power, as well as significantly less weight... ATS V6 Coupe would embarrass CTS V6 coupe. CTS-V would be something else.

BMW doesn't have a coupe that closely above the 3-series coupe.

Instead, BMW DOES have a 1-series coupe that is close to the 3-series coupe, below it.

135i is criticized for being nearly the same price, nearly the same weight, and almost the same engine directly as the 335i coupe. The only difference is that the 135i is more cramped inside the cabin, and slightly shorter on the rear overhang, which means less trunk and rear seat space, too.

ATS Coupe would either make CTS coupe a moot point, or if it didn't beat CTS Coupe, it would be panned the same way 135i coupe is panned compared to 335i coupe.

That is why I think ATS Coupe is not in the cards. CTS coupe already exists.

That is also why I think ATS coupe could still help pay the bills on the ATS platform's fixed costs, by being a Buick Grand National, instead, and avoid the direct competition with CTS coupe.

Clear as mud?
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