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Old 05-13-2012, 03:12 PM   #1
djc1827
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Default turbo upgrade worth it?

I want a low 11sec car that runs with v8s up top on the highway but I don't wanna go too large. Its coming down to these turbos. Any input from people who have owned these turbos or currently own them would be helpful. I cannot find anyone really testing the capability of them at the drag strip so I am just plain confused at this point. Each turbo has it pros and cons. Find one that fits me isn't easy.

I am comparing my vf52 dyno charts against:

bnr hta68
blouch 18g
blouch 18gxt-r
blouch 1.5xt-r
blouch 2.5xt-r
amr cxr 500

My biggest fear is hta68 or 18g will be too similar to my vf52

I know the 1.5xtr and 2.5xtr will prob hit 400whp on efi mustang dyno and 350ish on pump gas but will they be boring on pump gas? I already have money set aside for a block and plans for trans in the future. The cxr-500,hta68, and 18g make about as much power on pump as my vf52 makes on corn but that doesn't make them better all around. Price isn't an issue, I am also undecided on ext wg or int wg and 8cm vs 10cm Do they really make a difference up top cause I don't wanna shell out another 500$ for ext wg setup to gain 10-15whp

I currently have all the supporting mods except I am running stock trans/block






cxr-500

http://www.efilogics.com/dyno/index....rgb1=000000255
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Old 05-13-2012, 03:44 PM   #2
wrxstage2
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2.5 xtr would b the way to go im having same issue i have a vf48, y upgrade to the 18g if im not gonna get a huge boost in power. Its all about how far u wanna take the car, i just wouldnt buy a expensive turbo to get 20 more hp and a slight drop in tq , its a hard descion
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Old 05-13-2012, 03:48 PM   #3
wrxstage2
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Maybe a ewg or some other performance parts that will help ur 52 make more power i just dont think its worth the money man ur making really good power and ur not gonna see a drastic change in power uf u upgrade
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Old 05-13-2012, 04:05 PM   #4
djc1827
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Default vf52

I am making great peak power but my car sucks on pump gas especially after tasting the e85. I have only ran the car on e85 twice and driving around in warm weather on 93oct blows. Grimmspeed claims 8-15whp with TGVD but I have read they are a waste of time by several people unless you are running a larger turbo. Expensive mod too. Figure 600$ for TGVD and around $500 for ext wg w pipe. I can buy a killer turbo for 1500$ which is only 400$ more. How bout a zex 50shot of spray on the vf52...maybe some more boost. I have never seen anyone run more than 23psi on vf52...why is this? Mitsu guys run 28psi on small 16g turbos all the time with e85 or meth. I wonder if a 44mm ext wg would allow me to hold like 18 to 19psi to redline instead of 15psi
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Old 05-13-2012, 04:27 PM   #5
northman
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by djc1827 View Post
I have never seen anyone run more than 23psi on vf52...why is this? Mitsu guys run 28psi on small 16g turbos all the time with e85 or meth. I wonder if a 44mm ext wg would allow me to hold like 18 to 19psi to redline instead of 15psi
Running a bunch of boost with the VF or other small-ish turbo will only help at mid RPM, the turbo just cannot flow enough to do high boost at high RPM. Power is made in the upper revs, look at your own dyno sheet, and ask yourself what RPM do you shift at? If you want to make power, you need a turbo that can hold boost out to redline. Of your various choices, the VF, the HTA68 and 18G don't do that.
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Old 05-13-2012, 05:08 PM   #6
juanmedina
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non of of does turbos are worth it. Get a Dom 3-XTR or a the new HTA76/ FP red. Lag its over rated and it will keep your engine in one piece since you will not have high low end torque.
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Old 05-13-2012, 05:25 PM   #7
Supraru
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Cross the hta68 off your list. Unless you're planning on running meth or e85 all it is what it is. I dyno'd at 319 and 343 at 20 lbs and got retuned for 23 lbs once I changed my boost controller spring so I managed to bump up the hp and tq a little. With this set up on 93 octane I'm hoping for high 11's. Unfortunately for me the tq at 3k ish rpms didn't like my 2 year old lgt gears and busted up my third. With an sti trans and e85 I think I could run a low 11' in my 2700 lb car but I can't see a full weight wrx doing it on this turbo.
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Old 05-13-2012, 05:48 PM   #8
djc1827
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Default

dom 3 seems a bit much, I am leaning towards 2.5xtr polka pickle..you think I can rev it to 7k on stock engine lol?
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Old 05-13-2012, 05:51 PM   #9
djc1827
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Default

Of course the dom 3 would be sick seems to spool pretty well too...does this turbo come in 2.4 inlet option tho? This is on pump gas, imagine e85

http://www.efilogics.com/dyno/graph....rgb1=000000255
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Old 05-13-2012, 05:52 PM   #10
juanmedina
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by djc1827 View Post
dom 3 seems a bit much, I am leaning towards 2.5xtr polka pickle..you think I can rev it to 7k on stock engine lol?
Yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by djc1827 View Post
Of course the dom 3 would be sick seems to spool pretty well too...does this turbo come in 2.4 inlet option tho? This is on pump gas, imagine e85

http://www.efilogics.com/dyno/graph....rgb1=000000255
Yes
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Old 05-13-2012, 05:58 PM   #11
djc1827
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Default

int wg and 2.4" inlet and 8cm for faster spool might be this best bet for me....with a turbo this size I would want minimal lag...maybe I can set another record? Fastest Stock engine/Transmission Wrx. 10s on a 5speed?
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Old 05-13-2012, 05:59 PM   #12
djc1827
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Default

I want Juniors input on this one? I cannot pm him, his inbox is full.
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Old 05-13-2012, 06:03 PM   #13
trick_subie
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You will be best with one of the DOM's. I'm a BIG fan of the 3 but either of the others will be very nice as well.
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Old 05-13-2012, 08:57 PM   #14
jdpsearcher
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FP Green HTA, DOM 3, HTA 76,

I cant really comment on any AMR turbos but I personally want to try AMR's cxr750 ot a DOM 5.....
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Old 05-13-2012, 10:15 PM   #15
djc1827
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Default

My issue with the dom3 is I will run out of fuel w 1000s on e85 I will be fine on pump tho right? I use about 650cc on vf52 at 38lbs. Dom3 is 55lbs min but at 22psi on pump I should make easy 400whp. Remember my fmic isn't the biggest either
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Old 05-13-2012, 11:38 PM   #16
djc1827
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439whp 2.5xtr stock engin

Default

I am leaning more towards the 2.5xtr now because I can utilize my e85 bettter and it spools about 300rpms sooner. Check out these dyno numbers, they don't seem right to me. This 2011 wrx is hitting 370whp on pump and 411 on corn with stock header and inlet but this other guy is only making 9 more whp on 3.0xtr

http://www.efilogics.com/dyno/graph....rgb2=204000000

http://www.efilogics.com/dyno/graph....rgb1=000000255

My plan is 380whp on pump at 21psi and 420whp at 23psi on e85 with my header up pipe plus I am catless.. and inlet plus I also have crank pulley and lightweight wheels. Should be good for low 11s on pump and high 10s on e85....traps in the 125mph

Last edited by djc1827; 05-13-2012 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 05-14-2012, 12:03 AM   #17
djc1827
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:24 AM   #18
Irv Weissmanhowerton
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a few back to back 11.2's at 124.5-127 with a perrin 30r on my other then supporting fuel mods was completely stock 04 sti, around 32-3300 lbs (close to stock weight), never slipped clutch once w 1.60's


personally with riding in gt30-35 cars, I wouldnt upgrade turbos unless its at least the .82 30r/ 52lb or more turbo, especially with what your looking to do, with the right tune as long as your cars in good health when you put it on, it should last a while
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:50 AM   #19
punchjamesarnol
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If I could go back, I would have gotten the DOM3xtr or the DOM3.5xtr just for a little more bang. The 2.5xtr is a wise choice for a stock block though. I am very pleased with its performance, I could get more HP from it though if I had an EWG.
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Old 05-14-2012, 09:37 AM   #20
rexblake
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Lol, how many threads do you have about this now?

The best bet is going to be a Dom 3xtr, but you are going to have to modify your fuel a bit. 1000cc injectors and a Walbro seem to be good for about 400whp on E85 on lower reading dynos. You could direct wire the pump but it's still the limiting factor. I'm going to try the DW 320 pump, direct wired, and maybe a boost a pump if I need it to hopefully top out the Dom 3xtr. I also am running 1600cc injectors.

The lag between the 1.5, 2.5, and 3.0 isn't much. Most dynos I have seen has them all hitting full spool at about 4500rpms. Granted, there are exceptions, such as the graph you have showing the 1.5 hitting full spool by 3500rpm. The Dom 3 should be able to hit 400whp on pump and about 450whp on E85. That should net you high 10s pretty easily with your driving skills. I definitely think its a great upgrade, if you want a little bit better dd, you prolly can't beat the 1.5xtr. Anything less than that wouldn't be worth it though.

I ran the 68hta (7cm) and it sucked. Even with larger hotsides it doesn't flow what it's rated for and the power under the curve is pretty ****ty. The 18g has a good power band but isn't worth the minimal power boost over the 52.

I know it feels like a huge decision, but it really isn't. My suggestion is to get a size larger than you were thinking, otherwise it really doesn't feel worth the money invested. Especially since your going to have to build the engine regardless, whether now or once it blows. Btw, it would be cheaper to build it before it blows. Plus, it's much nicer to have it planned than to have it blow and leave you stranded somewhere.
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Old 05-14-2012, 10:23 AM   #21
CatfaceType-R
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u have been given a lot of good info and it seems like u are overestimating what lag does and not asking about how to mitigate it. U will waste your money...

the dom3 is a vf39 on roids, good luck on the highway races...
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Old 05-14-2012, 10:27 AM   #22
djc1827
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Default

I have dw300 far superior to walbro and much quieter. My choice is between 2.5 and 3.0. Click on those links tho and the power diff doesn't add up for the size diff. Doubtful I can hit 450whp on 1000s I will prob run out of fuel on corn around 420whp
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Old 05-14-2012, 11:45 AM   #23
rexblake
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Octane I bet, the 3.0xtr graph doesn't say what octane it is. It could be 91. Nor do you know how the two where tuned, the 2.5xtr could be pushing the limit a bit more than the 3.0xtr tune. Def check out some other dynos as well, look at the Cobb database too.

Yes, the 1000cc injectors are going to be a limiting factor. I'd suggest changing them, or you could raise the fuel pressure. Doing that will run the pump out of flow quicker though. I bet using the Kenne Bell boost a pump the dw300 would support 450whp. That's certainly what I'm hoping for. I don't know if your fuel rails would be an issue or not, not very versed on the new models.

Also, the 3.0xtr seems to respond very well to equal length headers. I'm curious how this is going to change the feel of my setup (going from Grimmspeed pnp w/ high flow x pipe to Perrin elh). Should improve spool a couple hundred rpm and maybe gain a couple horse up top.
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Old 05-14-2012, 03:27 PM   #24
nacho6706
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How about Element's GT 52? I'm stuck btw this and the Dom 3xtr, i want a simple setup that will net me 380-400 whp on pump
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Old 05-14-2012, 03:51 PM   #25
neorex
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i'm not expert and still learning here, but from what i've gathered from my research be wary of high drive pressures on stock blocks/heads...

the 60mm turbine wheel on GT30 spec turbos and bigger can mean greater than 1:1 drive to boost pressures...this can result in incomplete scavenging, high cylinder pressures, and greater risk for pre-ignition and detonation events...

thus tuners have to cut timing...this means softer, later spool and conservative boost...of course built motors and heads certainly mitigate and lower the risk for failure...

for the short term as someone mentioned EL headers can help move exhaust gases along more efficiently...

personally, i went with a 1.5xtr for these and other reasons...i'm hoping the 57mm turbine wheel and EL headers will allow for safe combustion, good timing and lots of fun...methanol will be added for extra safety...

good luck with your search...
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