Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Tuesday September 16, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-06-2012, 09:27 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 73805
Join Date: Nov 2004
Default Movement to Banish Copper From Brake Pads Gains Momentum

Quote:
Government at the state and federal levels has been preoccupied with improving the fuel economy of the nation’s fleet. Smaller environmental causes are also in the mix, including mercury in car switches and lead weights used to balance auto wheels.

Add to these copper brake pads, which produce metal dust that environmental advocates say reaches waterways and harms aquatic life.
The issue has gained traction in the legislatures of California and Washington, where bans on the pads were enacted in 2010. These victories have inspired bills introduced recently in Rhode Island, New York and Oregon.

Manufacturers use copper because it effectively transfers away the heat produced when brake pads rub against rotors. But with the legislative movements gaining momentum, companies are exploring alternatives to copper and other potentially hazardous materials.

“Each time a driver uses their brakes, a small amount of copper and other metals are deposited on roadways from the brake pad,” according to literature on the Web site of the Ecology Department in Washington State. “These metals then wash into our streams and rivers. With millions of drivers using their brakes each day, these small amounts significantly impact our waterways, including Puget Sound.” The state says that brake pads “account for up to half of the copper entering our water from urban areas.”

By 2021, brake pads containing more than 5 percent of the metal will be banned in Washington. Pads made as original equipment for cars built before 2021 are exempt from the law. The California ban is similar, though it also requires the use of pads with 0.5 percent copper or less by 2025. Pending a 2015 review of available alternatives to copper, Washington may eventually enact a 0.5 percent ban of its own.

The bills in Washington and California also require manufacturers to stop selling pads with more than minute amounts of asbestos, cadmium, chromium, lead and mercury by 2014.

Manufacturers have adopted a collaborative approach to the problem through the Brake Pad Partnership, a consortium consisting of the Brake Manufacturers Council, the Environmental Protection Agency, Ford Motor Company, General Motors and various state water agencies. “We ended up supporting both pieces of state legislation,” Ann Wilson, a senior vice president at the Motor and Equipment Manufacturers Association, the parent group of the manufacturers council, said in a telephone interview.

Ms. Wilson said she thought that additional state bans were unnecessary because existing legislation would lead to an industrywide change in brake pad formulations. “It’s important to recognize that what these two states have done will impact vehicles around the country, from cars to heavy trucks,” she said. “Our members are not going to design California-only brake pads.”

But Kathryn Phillips, California director of the Sierra Club, said in a telephone interview that this was not this time to abandon the quest for more state bans.

“Catalytic converters came to California first, and it took a while for them to go national,” she said. “The auto industry is more willing to do the right thing today than it was 40 or even 10 years ago, but it’s helped that states have taken the lead and made clear they expect good behavior.”

Others are looking beyond state regulations. FDP Friction Science, which makes copper-free brake pads, is a sponsor of a coming petition campaign, called Give Water a Brake, that would seek nationwide bans of copper brake pads in the United States and Canada. The campaign is organized in part by Earthgarage.com, an informational site that also promotes green auto products, including FDP’s EcoStop brake pads.

“The copper ban is a sleeper of an issue,” Bob Leonard, the chief executive of Earthgarage, said in an interview. “Many of the environmental groups I’ve approached, some fighting water pollution, aren’t aware of the brake pad problem.”
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2012...ains-momentum/
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
AVANTI R5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 09:50 AM   #2
WRXHillClimb
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 206907
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Abq, NM
Vehicle:
2014 EvoX GSR
2005 S2000 Track Car

Default

Everyone should start making carbon brakes and disks like those new ferrari's that last "the life of the car" with normal use. Bring the price of that **** down.
WRXHillClimb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 01:28 PM   #3
Masterauto
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 198376
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Delaware
Vehicle:
X5D Subaru BRZ
Nissan GT-R

Default

Did they ever ban asbestos in clutches and brakes?
Masterauto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 01:46 PM   #4
HipToBeSquare
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:
1992 SVX LS-L

Default

News flash.

Copper is an element that exists in nature. It is mined out of the earth. It is part of the environment, and if it is exposed in rock formations that water erodes, it gets washed into waterways anyway.
HipToBeSquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 02:09 PM   #5
subyski
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 202642
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Centennial, Colorado
Vehicle:
'08 2.5i,'65 Stang
'80 Vette L82,'73 914 2.0

Default

What's next? A ban on tires that wear down because of all the tire dust that washes into the water system.
subyski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 02:13 PM   #6
RallyColtTurbo
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 16819
Join Date: Mar 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Lake Elsinore, CA
Vehicle:
2002 MBP WRX,'06 LR3
Three Gen 1 Legacy Turbos

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by subyski View Post
What's next? A ban on tires that wear down because of all the tire dust that washes into the water system.
Likely.
RallyColtTurbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 03:25 PM   #7
WRXHillClimb
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 206907
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Abq, NM
Vehicle:
2014 EvoX GSR
2005 S2000 Track Car

Default

People need to realize that its not all of these things polluting that is the problem, its the number of people using them (a.k.a. the population increasing so much). Control the population and everyone's life improves because there's not such a strain on resources, the amount of pollution goes way down, etc.
WRXHillClimb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 03:25 PM   #8
XanRules
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 157348
Join Date: Aug 2007
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Benghazi
Vehicle:
1996 JNCO Jorts
Stonewashed Denim

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXHillClimb
People need to realize that its not all of these things polluting that is the problem, its the number of people using them (a.k.a. the population increasing so much). Control the population and everyone's life improves because there's not such a strain on resources, the amount of pollution goes way down, etc.
That's a pretty dangerous ideological path to venture down, though...
XanRules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 03:33 PM   #9
MN Subie Lovers
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 302929
Join Date: Dec 2011
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minneapolis
Vehicle:
98 Impreza WGN
'06 OBXT

Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXHillClimb View Post
People need to realize that its not all of these things polluting that is the problem, its the number of people using them (a.k.a. the population increasing so much). Control the population and everyone's life improves because there's not such a strain on resources, the amount of pollution goes way down, etc.
yes please... +1 for black plague
MN Subie Lovers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 03:36 PM   #10
RallyColtTurbo
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 16819
Join Date: Mar 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Lake Elsinore, CA
Vehicle:
2002 MBP WRX,'06 LR3
Three Gen 1 Legacy Turbos

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by XanRules View Post
That's a pretty dangerous ideological path to venture down, though...
Doesn't make it any less true.

Smaller and dumber?

Or larger and smarter?


I can't decide.
RallyColtTurbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 03:36 PM   #11
MrSaabaru
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 74709
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Fort Wayne-ish
Vehicle:
2007 Solstice
05 Yamaha R6 & 04 Saab 93

Default

I've got a modest proposal on how to handle it...
MrSaabaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 04:25 PM   #12
XanRules
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 157348
Join Date: Aug 2007
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Benghazi
Vehicle:
1996 JNCO Jorts
Stonewashed Denim

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSaabaru
I've got a modest proposal on how to handle it...
Well played.
XanRules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 05:00 PM   #13
stirob
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 93631
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Pearland Tx.
Vehicle:
2014 CTS-V
Opulent Blue Mtallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MN Subie Lovers View Post
yes please... +1 for black plague
Something similar will happen again sooner or later.
stirob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 05:15 PM   #14
HipToBeSquare
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:
1992 SVX LS-L

Default

Humans are natural inhabitants of this planet, just as copper is a natural element present in nature.

Eliminating either is problematic...

Eliminating humans has been tried, and it has been called eugenics, and genocide.

Anyone advocating elimination of people, should be the first volunteer themselves. If you aren't willing, then your advocacy is actually conspiracy.

Advocating for the elimination of people is not acceptable, and I will always disagree. A person or group of people has to decide who lives and who dies, while themselves not being subject to their own judgement, or accountability for it. That is in no way Justice, and certainly not freedom.

That directly flouts the inalienable right to life. Without life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or anything else, no longer matters.

If you suggest it for someone else, even without specificity, then you had better be prepared for someone to apply the same standard to you, without your complaint.

*Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you.*
HipToBeSquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 05:28 PM   #15
Eyeflyistheeye
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 69694
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: My personal hell
Vehicle:
2014 EuroPinto 5MT

Default

Hey, I was for the Mercury ban.

Eyeflyistheeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 05:56 PM   #16
HipToBeSquare
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:
1992 SVX LS-L

Default

Except that is basically a Mazda.
HipToBeSquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 06:20 PM   #17
G-Omaha
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 209172
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Omaha, NE
Vehicle:
2012 Impreza CLL
BL2

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
Without life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or anything else, no longer matters.
Without clean water life is endangered making all other points moot. Uranium is also found naturally; however, in that state it is not as powerful as a Nuke and has an entirely different "half-life" (Crawford Nebraska Reserves).
G-Omaha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 06:41 PM   #18
HipToBeSquare
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:
1992 SVX LS-L

Default

Endangered is hyperbole.

Most rain runoff flows through the soil, not usually OVER the soil. Any midwesterner should know that. The soil is a natural filter for the water flowing through it. There is no empirical establishment that copper-containing brake dust runs directly into open waterways in any amounts that endangers anything.

If you are worried about rain runoff, there are probably more cars dripping all sorts of petroleum products on the road in far greater, but still minuscule aggregate quantities than copper remnants in brake dust.

And I would suppose you would rather that your brake pads overheat, crack, crumble, and fail, rather than stopping your car by shedding heat consistently, too, right?

Copper is not uranium. Copper is not radioactive normally, and copper is actually a material that is biologically necessary in measured amounts.

Copper, unless there is a huge problem for an individual person, can be expelled from the body through physiological means. It isn't the same as lead or mercury, either.

Copper in brake dust is hardly as concentrated as critical mass in an atomic explosive, and copper has no critical mass, since it ISN'T radioactive. Otherwise the Statue of Liberty would have melted down or exploded after it was built. Copper is a remarkably stable, and resilient metal that doesn't usually corrode beyond a surface layer.

Copper, is one of the staples of the chinese economy, and is a commodity-basis for their currency.

The half life of a specific amount of a uranium isotope is a known quantity, due to a radioactive emission rate. the half life of a larger mass is longer, because there is more material to be decayed.

AGAIN, Copper is not uranium, copper is not radioactive.

There are clean water laws, and water supplies are tested for that sort of thing.

Calling for elimination of people to cull real or imagined problems with human activity is not acceptable, and could be classified as conspiracy to commit murder, serial murder, or genocide. If it becomes action, then it is attempted murder or genocide; and if successful, is actually pre-meditated murder or genocide, depending on the numbers of victims. Population reduction by force would necessitate high numbers of victims, and absolutely constitute genocide.

Advocating biological warfare to accomplish that goal is no excuse for it. Wishing for a severe natural epidemic for the purpose of population reduction may not directly be murder, but it isn't morally right, either. And I still assert that someone wishing for a plague should be willing to be the first person to willfully contract the contagion.

Advocating genocide is different than a little bit of copper dust from brake pads that nobody has proven a problem with.

This is an egg-head somewhere that is trying to get or justify keeping environmental grant money by postulating something that sounds like an environmental hazard, when it ISN'T established to be anything. It is fear mongering for additional government regulation. Academic bureaucrats and political bureaucrats justifying their professional existence.

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 02-06-2012 at 06:58 PM.
HipToBeSquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 07:54 PM   #19
Ysidro
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 197418
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: New England
Vehicle:
07 WRX Ltd
The Mighty Evo;Fun CRZ

Default

Fine dont use copper. Big deal. Theres other alternatives in this field.
Ysidro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 07:54 PM   #20
Eyeflyistheeye
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 69694
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: My personal hell
Vehicle:
2014 EuroPinto 5MT

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
Except that is basically a Mazda.
When I was a young car geek without Intarnets, I was wondering where the hell did that Tracer and the Capri came from since they had no Ford counterpart in the United States.
Eyeflyistheeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 08:04 PM   #21
geddesk2
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119397
Join Date: Jul 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Snoqualmie
Vehicle:
2012 STI
WRB (The only color)

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
News flash.

Copper is an element that exists in nature. It is mined out of the earth. It is part of the environment, and if it is exposed in rock formations that water erodes, it gets washed into waterways anyway.
While yes I completely agree, that is a little short minded. The quantities in nature are spread over a large area and erosion takes along time.

100,000 thousand cars travel across a bridge near where I work a day, I'm going to make an educated guess that they are putting more copper in the lake then the erosion to rocks caused by the water.

Personally I think this is great because it will force forward thinking/research into better materials, just like the CAF rules have forced the automotive industry to come up with better engines.

Would FORD have really designed the Eco boost engine other wise? I really doubt it.
geddesk2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 08:50 PM   #22
sxotty
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 95600
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Vehicle:
2003 WRX wagon
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
News flash.

Copper is an element that exists in nature. It is mined out of the earth. It is part of the environment, and if it is exposed in rock formations that water erodes, it gets washed into waterways anyway.
News flash something existing in trace quantities in nature doesn't make a safe. What a ridiculous theory. Here eat some belladonna it is natural...
sxotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2012, 03:48 AM   #23
WRXHillClimb
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 206907
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Abq, NM
Vehicle:
2014 EvoX GSR
2005 S2000 Track Car

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
That directly flouts the inalienable right to life. Without life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or anything else, no longer matters.

If you suggest it for someone else, even without specificity, then you had better be prepared for someone to apply the same standard to you, without your complaint.
I'm not advocating killing people, I'm advocating people either being limited to their children, or receiving 0 help from the gov't to sustain their children (though the latter seems far more inhumane , I'm an avid believer in letting people reap what they sew, even when its not the children's fault, if parents can't provide and no one immediately interested in the child's or any other human's life can or wants to pick up the slack, its not the responsibility of society to sustain that life. Personal problems are that and should stay that (same for businesses and their losses at that).

I already plan to only have a max of 1 kid, which is doing my part to reduce the population, and provide a better quality of life for that kid.

I'm fine living by my own rules, and I've stated numerous times before if I exhaust every means necessary to support myself and still have to rely on the gov't to live, I'd just kill myself instead, because I won't be a burden to people I don't know and who have no vested interest. I expect everyone else to have so much humility, conviction, and pride about their role and responsibility to contribute to society.
WRXHillClimb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2012, 06:53 AM   #24
Uncle Scotty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:
OK Houston
we have an Uncle

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by XanRules View Post
That's a pretty dangerous ideological path to venture down, though...
what is more dangerous....mans greed and avarice and apathy....or unnecessary, unwanted, unsupported children being born in record numbers around the world because it supports the greed and avarice of those who profit from their lives????

we make the planet into a polluted mess---due to over population....and at some point humans will die out...like the amphibians in many places in the world are, now....we become an endangered species

we are literally ****ing ourselves into extinction and all the evidence available supports this notion...unpopular as it may seem....it IS realistic
Uncle Scotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2012, 07:52 AM   #25
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Just outside of Houston TX
Vehicle:
2013 F150 King Ranch
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

^^^^^

Uncle scotty could not be more right. THe Earth is a finite resource and we WILL use it up. Oil first, then natural gas, then every last tree and blade of grass.

This should surprise nobody, consider the source of such unregulated stupidity, the politicians in the birthplace of stupid legislation...

The issue has gained traction in the legislatures of California and Washington, where bans on the pads were enacted in 2010. These victories have inspired bills introduced recently in Rhode Island, New York and Oregon.

I mean really, did anybody expect less for the 5 bastions of political monkey see monkey do. Actually, I cannot say that, California is unique in its seemingly endless ability to produce dumb legislation based nothing more than wanting to appear green. The other 4 are just "OH WE WANT THAT TOO!"
SCRAPPYDO is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FYI...Where to apply grease during brake pad install downeyer Brakes, Steering & Suspension 18 03-28-2014 01:25 PM
Where to break in new brake pads in Dallas? javanaut Texas Impreza Club Forum -- TXIC 6 05-01-2006 10:22 AM
Where to find Axxis Ultimate brake pads. jayan357 Mid Atlantic Impreza Club -- MAIC 6 01-21-2006 01:31 AM
To those with Hawk Brake Pads Bill Brakes, Steering & Suspension 4 06-02-2001 07:40 AM
how hard is it to install your own brake pads? Keith Technical Forum Archive 20 10-06-2000 02:16 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.