Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday July 24, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Motorsports

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-16-2002, 04:39 PM   #1
D
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 3161
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Berkeley, CA
Question Viability of a 2.5RS coupe in PGT Rally?

I may be able to get my hands on a salvage title 2.5RS coupe as a possible build up for some kind of race car. Rallying is a possibility and I was wondering about the viability of a 2.5RS coupe in PGT. It seems that most of the imprezas I see are sedans and it makes sense due to the easy access of the backseat and suspension through those doors. The necessity of having a back seat in PGT also will make it that much harder to get to the suspension. Are there ways around this or is that why sedans tend to be the majority?

Thanks
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2002, 05:08 PM   #2
WagonMonster
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 3781
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Napa Valley
Vehicle:
2002 Legacy GT Wagon
2009 Forester X Limited

Default

Andy and Julie Sharples up in Washington have a PGT RS Coupe and they do very well.

WagonMonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2002, 06:17 PM   #3
Thug
Choke Artist
Moderator
 
Member#: 603
Join Date: Dec 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Nashua, NH
Default

I think you see more sedans because they're more readily available and generally cheaper. I believe Pat Richard used to rally an RS coupe.
Thug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2002, 07:49 PM   #4
MGXsport
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4048
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Coulee City
Vehicle:
2013 Outback

Default

Here is the quietest rally car

Sharples RS coupe

Chris
www.4wheelphotos.com
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 350152.jpg (47.1 KB, 365 views)
MGXsport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2002, 02:04 AM   #5
Bill Westhead
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 1095
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Vehicle:
1998 BD Legacy GT
BGP

Default PGT 2.5RS = UFO

...at least when Pat Richard is the pilot.

2000 SCCA PGT Champion
2000 CARS PGT Champion
2000 North American Rally Cup Champion

Yeah, I'd say it's viable

Bill Westhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2002, 02:35 AM   #6
MattDell
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 16803
Join Date: Mar 2002
Chapter/Region: International
Location: London, England
Default

OMG.

Right Click ---> Save
MattDell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2002, 10:05 AM   #7
johnfelstead
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 856
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Hampshire, England, UK
Vehicle:
2005 JDM STi
Black

Default

That is of course before the WRX was available. Things move on. The RS is a good car but the WRX is faster.
johnfelstead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2002, 01:29 PM   #8
Joe Longworth
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 62
Join Date: Jun 1999
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: King County, WA
Vehicle:
99 Impreza 2.5RS
Silverthorne

Default

One of the other reasons a sedan is more common is that the sedan is lighter than the coupe. Go figure.
Joe Longworth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2002, 09:42 PM   #9
Axiochus
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 7847
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The Sideways Fool
Vehicle:
Most Exciting Driver
'91, '95, '97, '00, '02

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by johnfelstead
That is of course before the WRX was available. Things move on. The RS is a good car but the WRX is faster.
Yeah, but nobody wants to run PGT in a WRX. They'd all rather run "Group Psuedo N". Besides, even when Richard won all that, the RS wasn't the PGT car to have... the 1st Gen DSM was. It wasn't the car that won, it was the cajones.

Matt.
Axiochus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2002, 11:54 AM   #10
Subie Gal
GC84Ever
Super Moderator
 
Member#: 301
Join Date: Sep 1999
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: WA
Vehicle:
1970 FF-1 & '70 Van
02 WRX/01 RS

Default

I think that the RS can still be competitive on the club level in PGT...

at the pro level? nope... WRX and DSM's will win overall...
but it's a great starter car... and fun car to learn in!!

Jamie
www.subiegalracing.com
Subie Gal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2002, 12:42 PM   #11
RallyNavvie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 7113
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Minnesotan in Texas
Vehicle:
2008 Spec B
DGM

Default

Hey now, the Knight Rally Subarus are 2.5RSs and they do pretty well in the ProRally

~Garrett
RallyNavvie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2002, 02:12 PM   #12
Jon Bogert
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1133
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: SE PA
Vehicle:
09 GTR, 02 996 C4S
95 993 C4, 71 911, 04 STI

Default

In terms of competitiveness, I think that a 2.5RS can compete with 32mm restricted DSMs. WRXs are tougher, but there have been discussions about forcing them to run in Group N or Open. Look at Randy Zimmer's stage times. His car is barely faster than a PGT 2.5 RS would be.

Advantages vs. DSMs:
a) 300-400lbs lighter
b) Much better gear ratios
c) Can run smaller tires (due to a, helps a & b)
d) Excellent power curve for rally
e) No engine management headaches
f) much better handling
g) much better visability/ergonomics

PGT rules require retaining the stock turbo and ECU. This is a huge disadvantage, which hurts the DSMs power curve and drivability quite a bit.

Perennial NEDiv PGT contender Bruce Perry's talon has gone from regular top-20 overall to more like top-30 since the restrictor rule change.

On a pure horsepower event like STPR, the 2.5RS would have a tough time. I bet one could do very well at a more technical event, though.
Jon Bogert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2002, 06:21 PM   #13
Difuser
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 2941
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: NE Tacoma
Vehicle:
2001 RS
Blue Ridge Pearl

Default RS

Look at your future for rally PGT will be gone nationally If you are going to be club build it! We have done well this year against all the turbo cars where we didn't have horsepower we worked like mad on set-up and have been steadily leaving them behind.

Good driver, good set-up, good horsepower = bad news for RS

Take any of the three out and we walk away on stage times


Dan
Crew Chief
#255 Sharples Subaru
Difuser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2002, 06:29 PM   #14
Axiochus
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 7847
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The Sideways Fool
Vehicle:
Most Exciting Driver
'91, '95, '97, '00, '02

Default

Well, since we're on this subject....
Quote:
Originally posted by Jon Bogert
Advantages vs. DSMs:
a) 300-400lbs lighter
b) Much better gear ratios
c) Can run smaller tires (due to a, helps a & b)
d) Excellent power curve for rally
e) No engine management headaches
f) much better handling
g) much better visability/ergonomics
Doesn't the restrictor only apply to National PGT and not Club? If so, than there is little (and, I'd say probably no) advantage for a RS over a DSM for Club Rally.

On the other hand, we're quickly getting to the point where the first Gen DSM's will be outlawed on the Pro Ranks because of age. Building an RS for a few years of Club PGT with some pro events up the road might not be such a bad idea... seems like there won't be so many PGT eligible cars.

Either way, my philosophy is simple. Build what you'd like, and rally it in whatever class it falls. Worry about all the particulars once you're sure that you're not going to be hitting trees and rolling every event. Now, if I can only get my hands on that Stratos...
Axiochus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2002, 07:58 PM   #15
Thug
Choke Artist
Moderator
 
Member#: 603
Join Date: Dec 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Nashua, NH
Default

Pat was kicking DSM and Jap. spec WRX arse in his old RS. There's no reason why someone else with some driving ability couldnt do the same. An RS rally car is going to be alot more reliable than a DSM. And Club Rally history has proven that just finishing events consistently will help towards a championship alot more than just having a fast car. I think Jon's list of advantages are all very valid. And if you're going with a '00 or '01 RS you'll also have the advantage of a rear LSD as well. Which is something most DMS dont have.
Thug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2002, 08:09 PM   #16
randy zimmer
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4560
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY USA
Vehicle:
93 buy my rally
build manual

Default pgt

Buy my car and do the work to make it a legal PGT (easy with some effort and a donor car for interior details and title).
Check my times against Bob Henderson and then enter all the events like he did.
Enter and finish - that's the key to PGT.
rz
randy zimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2002, 02:34 PM   #17
iceweazel
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 6816
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cowlumbus, OH
Vehicle:
01 yeller wrx
triumph tiger,klr,cb900f

Default

>at the pro level? nope... WRX and DSM's will win overall

Yes, but I'm not sure I agree. I think an RS could win overall
in PGT easily and finish in the top 10 or even 5 with the right
prep and driver.

Having co-driven in the RS that won PGT at rim before
it was sold, (Lee Reodica/Rally New York) and it was fairly quick.
Obviously it can beat a WRX as evidenced by RIM.

Having spent the weekend in the car with Randy I think
a well preped RS could rock. We started the event with a
plugged cat. Check out our times. Fairly good for a stock
engine/tranny. Fixed it and then had intercom issues and
we were still in the top 15 before the transmision went.

I believe if Randy found the right sponsors and had the
right prep he'd slide into the top 10 every event in the RS.


Ed
iceweazel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2002, 02:57 PM   #18
Joe Longworth
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 62
Join Date: Jun 1999
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: King County, WA
Vehicle:
99 Impreza 2.5RS
Silverthorne

Default

Speaking of PGT:

Two rules interest me. SCCA Rule book clearly states that there are no updating/backdating of cars. So am I to understand that building up an older Impreza (say 93 base model) to 2000 2.5 RS spec is verboten?

And in terms of mounting points on suspension. In order to install Camber/Caster plates on in Impreza from Ground Control, some cutting is involved. Would that be considered an altered suspension mounting point? So are STI hats the best choice available to comply w/ PGT at this point?
Joe Longworth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2002, 06:23 PM   #19
randy zimmer
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4560
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY USA
Vehicle:
93 buy my rally
build manual

Default suspension

Joe:
Until you find a valid reason to change to a camber plate - leave it alone.
I can not understand the thought processes I read here.
"I want to buy a cage cheap" and "I want to make unnecessary (expensive) changes, what should I buy."
Scheeesh.
We're working with dirt and forward bite folks, a bit of negative to build cornering force doesn't make the car launch.
RZ
randy zimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2002, 08:54 PM   #20
makeway
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 20371
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The Keystone state
Vehicle:
1996 Impreza's
Green CP, and White wagon

Default What about...

How about a WRX engine in a older Impreza body? Best of both worlds? or to much trouble? what class would you have to run it in, and would it be competative in that class? Just asking.
makeway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2002, 09:46 PM   #21
Thug
Choke Artist
Moderator
 
Member#: 603
Join Date: Dec 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Nashua, NH
Default

You'd have to run in Open Class. Unless you got an actual Gr. N WRX from over seas.
Thug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2002, 10:09 PM   #22
makeway
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 20371
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The Keystone state
Vehicle:
1996 Impreza's
Green CP, and White wagon

Default Open class

In open class can you go nuts with HP, like in group-B or what?
makeway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2002, 10:21 PM   #23
Thug
Choke Artist
Moderator
 
Member#: 603
Join Date: Dec 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Nashua, NH
Default

Not really. There is a restrictor plate, 32mm, IIRC. More importantly, you will get your ass handed to you by those guys with last names like Lovell, Higgins, Choiniere and Burke for a good long time.
Thug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2002, 10:33 PM   #24
makeway
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 20371
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The Keystone state
Vehicle:
1996 Impreza's
Green CP, and White wagon

Default Sweet

Sweeeeet!running with the big boys! Does anybody run open class with those guys now? BIG BALLIN! and who's to say you can't be competative...I'm not saying I got mad driving skills, but I'm shure someone out there could give them a run for the money in a private car, or am I just off my rocker? Watching to manny WRC tapes from the golden years when 2 door Impreza's ruled the stage's... that's my dream...whats yours? Sorry about the HP maddness, I keep telling myself "Brakes and suspention first!" I'm loseing it!
makeway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2002, 12:52 AM   #25
slidewaysmike
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3517
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Ohio
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT
Silver

Default

Quote:
but I'm shure someone out there could give them a run for the money in a private car,
Actually your current points leader is a private car. Albeit an EXTREMELY well funded private car, with one of the best drivers in the U.K. (dare I say in the world?) behind the wheel.

So you see, your not completely off your rocker, just a little crazy.

It would be cool for someone to build or get a GC8 WRX and run it for the whole season as opposed to just one or two events. Right Karl?

We need F. Dor to come back here with his car for a season.

Mike
slidewaysmike is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New owner of a 2.5rs coupe NinjaTech North West Impreza Club Forum -- NWIC 9 06-23-2008 01:25 AM
WTB: 2.5RS Coupe in San Fransisco CA. ONIMUSHA Private 'Wanted' Classifieds 0 01-08-2006 11:50 PM
*needed 99-01 2.5rs Coupe In Albany Area* 2.5rsracer Tri-State Area Forum 0 01-25-2005 06:08 PM
Spotted: WRB 2.5RS coupe in Exton Wergild Tri-State Area Forum 0 07-25-2003 04:15 PM
Owner of blue 2.5rs coupe who was in VA yesterday M Mid Atlantic Impreza Club -- MAIC 21 03-30-2001 12:15 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.