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Old 02-22-2012, 02:04 PM   #26
HipToBeSquare
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Hip, don't forget about the 8C.

For pure luxury, small, moderate-high power GT car, Aston cannot be touched. I still cannot wait for the V12 Vantage to come down in price. The SLS and . . . are all that come to mind that can compete with Aston on the classic style (not retro), comfort, and power level. I love the XKR-S, but the boy racer edge kicks it out of the Aston realm.

The SL, 6 series, GTC, XK, CTS-V coupe, R8, 911, California, and Maserati GT, while all in the price range of the Astons, don't compare with the Astons. They either lack aesthetic touches, distinctive style, price, luxury, or sound, which Aston puts on it's own level for. Which is apparent across their line (except for the iQ rebadge).

Nick
8C is good looking, but bigger than one might think... and has a couple of awkward angles, while having some other gorgeous angles.

SLS is not better looking than Aston in any way, and the whole aft roof is awkward, and the hood is almost comically long, without being dramatic.

SLR, now out of production was more striking, in terms of long-hood designs... but had the same problems with the roofline on the coupe. It was dropped, and almost an afterthought. SLR roadster solves that by cutting the roof off, and somehow miraculously keeping the great butterfly doors on the windshield pillars. AM is still better looking over-all.

I like the XK-R without the boy racer stuff, compared to the XKR-S. R-S is more of a distraction than DBS over Virage. But AM was designed to be sleeker and more striking than XK, when they were both under Ford's premium vehicle brand umbrella.

I am really looking forward to Ian Callum's CX16 coupe coming to production, another front-engine coupe done correctly, and more lithe and aggressive than the rather substantial XK series coupes.

the new 6-series is boring, M6 is significantly better, but still not AM kind of great. The previous modern 6-series had an interesting window graphic, but the front and rear fascias were let-downs.

The new SL is horrible, aesthetically, and the previous one was not good.

CTS coupe isn't on that level, and even if you like the angular thing... CTS has a HUGE rear. Might as well not even have rear glass... you can't see anything useful without a rear camera.

Actually, I wish I could laud C6 Corvette a bit. The proportions and size are nice. The front fascia is bland and dull with the large-radius lines in the body, and the boring rectangle fog lights and intake. It makes the features on the front look too broad for a car with such nice fender lines and coke-bottle shape. It is much nicer than C5 was. The back of the C5 and C6 are both a bit bland, as well. The tail lights are a tradition, but other than that, there is just a vertical cliff of vast expanses of composite. Too plain. Even just a bit of shape to the back of the car would be an improvement. And if it had a successor to the original ZR1's 32-valve 4-cam V8 under the hood, and a dual-clutch transaxle option... it might not seem like such a hold-over from the past. The suspension and chassis is very technical. Yes, even with leaf springs. Transverse composite, space-age, and space saving leaf springs.

Ferrari California combines CTS's big butt, with the awkward profile transitions that it's big sister 599 also has. Not graceful looking. I am not a fan of F458's front end styling at all, but the spyder version has a much more interesting folding roof, and aft styling that isn't so bulky... even though F458 keeps it's engine back there, not just a trunk. Don't ask me why Ferrari did that with California.

Maserati Grand Tourismo has never sat well with me... with that anteater snout, and the horrible roof thickness and angle transitions above the quarter glass... trying to carve rear headroom into the roof, and doing it VERY clumsily. Not that a Maserati coupe should have to care about rear seat headroom.

Aston Martin DB9/Virage/DBS 2+2 is an object lesson on how to carve a roofline properly, with one sweeping line, and no abrupt changes in direction and visual thickness along a continuous line.

I wish Zagato had not ruined that aspect by blacking out the A-pillar and flattening the top of the window graphic on the Vantage Zagato. I love the double-bubble, and most of the other changes. Zagato can do better than Ferrari-knock-off pie-plate tail lights, too. The cavities they carved into the rear fenders are dramatic... the tail lights are a let-down.

Even Bentley Continental GT is not as sleek as AM in the roofline department, but it is smoother than Maserati GT. AM wins, as any profile or aft quarter view photograph will show. And AM's front end is a better execution than Maserati's as well.
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Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 02-22-2012 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 02-22-2012, 02:13 PM   #27
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You should start every single paragraph with the words..

I think.....the 8c is good looking

I think....the 6 series is boring

I think... the current SL is horrible

I think ....the Ferrari California

I think....the Maserati

I think...Aston Martin

There is not right way or wrong way when it comes to aesthetics. A preponderance of opinions may be to one way or the other, but in the end it is an opinion, and not factual.

I happen to like the 8C as much if not more than almost any other car, and to me has more emotional feel than the Aston Martin.

Am I wrong, no, am I right, no. It is just an opinion and has as much weight as yours or anybody else who chimes in.
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Old 02-22-2012, 02:38 PM   #28
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I agree with some of the comments - for a supercar, I'm sort of tired of the Aston line. Loved the look when they first came out, but it feels like more of the same. Which is odd, because I look at the 911 and I fall in love with it every time they update the look (but maintain the basic shell). Maybe it's engineering and technology under the hood that gets me excited, or maybe because I like the evolution of the 911 look far better than the evolution of the Aston line.

I still enjoy looking at photos of places I've been... but I also like new places.
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Old 02-22-2012, 02:47 PM   #29
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The cars are what they are, Scrappydo. They look how they look.

And if there is no objective basis for what is good design, and aesthetic merit...

... then how is there such a thing as a college degree in design, art, architecture (would otherwise just be structural engineering), or any other course material that can be even slightly described as subjective?

I never claimed that my views were in any way superior to anyone else's views... but I wouldn't hold my views if I didn't think they were right, and I have changed them from time to time with new information, or further examination.

If I disagree with someone's opinion, I always back it up with why I disagree. If I can't back it up, I admit to taking further consideration, and sometimes come to actually agree with opinions that other people can back up.

Why would anyone convey an opinion as if honest, if they don't believe the opinion to be a justified and correct one?

8C is a very nice looking car. One of the best. Emotional feel is much more subjective than pointing to a line or curve that seems out of place, though.
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:00 PM   #30
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out of place is your opinion...

Some would say the slope of the SLR roof as attractive, I would not, but some would. Obviously a guy who attended a well respected design school designed all of those cars, yet all of them are lacking in your eyes. Which as your opinion you are perfectly entitled to.

Saying a line is out of place is fine, but understand it is just your thought of where that line should be.

I know you never said your words are superior, I never accused you of that. What I accused you of is stating things as facts, which they are not. They are your opinion.

A degree in design or art teach fundamentals. They teach light management, perspective, spacial and color relations etc. Every student that goes to an automotive art school does not become Pininfarina, or Bertone, or name your designer. Schools just teach basic principals, it is up to the talents of the designer to make a design that can get through engineering in tact and yet be beautiful. You cannot take a person off the street and make them a good designer because they happen to like cars. It takes a special person to rise to the top in the automotive design world.

A degree in a field means NOTHING. It means you have the basic tools to do your job. You can give a man a hammer, but that does not mean he can build the Sistine Chapel.

You can back up why you disagree all you want, but you are saying is not a fact. It is your opinion as to why you do not agree. You cannot tell somebody else that their perception of beauty is wrong. That is borderline arrogant.

you are right though, emotional feel is totally subjective, but that is my opinion and nothing more.
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:14 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
Exactly.

A bunch of Subaru enthusiasts.. a company with a history of more aesthetic misses than hits, is criticizing the most classically gorgeous line of front engined cars currently produced... and possibly EVER produced.

As front engined cars go... Aston Martin is the benchmark.

As far as rear engined cars go, Porsche 911 is likewise.

Why on earth would anyone with half a brain cell left in their head, mess with it, and try to fix what is not broken?

Fad fashion is not a good thing, and changing just to change is what companies like Subaru does, aesthetically... and has given us things like the blob-eye, the 2010+ Legacy appliance that could be mistaken for an Accord or Camry, even up-close, and the automotive equivalent to Quasimodo, the Hunchback of the auto industry, the GR Impreza 5-door. 2012 is not that much better. Oh, and the SCHNOZZ on the 06-07 Imprezas and Tribecas. That went over REAL well.

I love Subarus for their affordable capability... but aesthetics are not their strong suit. I have had to transport cars across the country in order to own Subarus that looked decent, being the Giugiaro-designed SVX (california car), and the 2005 BL Legacy GT Limited turbo 5-speed (vermont car). I live in Iowa, nowhere near either one. That is good looking in the context of Subaru... not necessarily the absolute best looking cars that the entire industry has ever produced.

Ian Callum's Aston Martin VH-chassis family (current lineup) and Jaguar designs, like CX75 and CX16 are among the most gorgeous cars ever rendered, period.
People don't buy Subarus for their looks, people certainly do drive Astons for their looks. At the end of the day most people buy these cars to be seen in. If you can buy a 2006 and no one will know the difference from a 2012, then that's a problem.
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:17 PM   #32
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Where did I say explicitly that anything was a fact, other than using definite articles, and not using capitulating language?

Where did I use the words... "___ is a fact", especially where it wasn't true?

Why would I use weak language, if I don't think my views are weakly held?

Capitulation and weak language doesn't make anything more or less a fact, nor more or less subjective, and is a matter of your perception, and semantics.
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:22 PM   #33
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People don't buy Subarus for their looks, people certainly do drive Astons for their looks. At the end of the day most people buy these cars to be seen in. If you can buy a 2006 and no one will know the difference from a 2012, then that's a problem.
That is an issue with ANY car, ugly or gorgeous, that stays in production for a period of time. And there have been cars that are relatively un-changed for 6 years or more. Acura NSX went far longer, with a refresh only just before the end. Acura NSX was still a handsome car in 2001, before the re-fresh, as it was in 1992, when introduced.

Anyone who doesn't know cars, won't notice. Anyone who does know cars, can tell the difference.
2006:


2012:



The front fascia, side sills, and rear facia were all changed. most other things, like the roofline, are part of the chassis, and usually don't change until a full re-design. The roofline of the 1999 Porsche 996 survived until this year, as the 997 had the same roof sheet metal. 991 isn't too far off, either, as most of the changes were below the window sill line.

The hood and fenders are harder to change on this car, because there is no bumper structure forward of the front hood edge. Any change to the hood has to be re-federalized. The only reason Virage got new headlights with it's fascia changes, is because they were designed for the Rapide, and fit the same stamped holes in the fenders in DB9, DBS, Virage, and Rapide. Vantage is the odd man out, and probably doesn't make enough money for them to re-tool and re-certify the headlight fixtures before the next re-design.

Vantage will be updated with a redesigned model at some point. It is possible that making the Vantage S -> standard Vantage might be a swan-song move, before a new model.

I also don't have a problem with them taking their time, and getting them right, because if they get it wrong, and it is no longer a car to be seen in, then a small tenuous company has a very real risk of going bankrupt. Aston Martin is not a huge company, and they don't make very many cars, model lines, or units.

Aston Martins are much rarer to see than most cars, and are still gorgeous. You aren't exactly seeing them like Camrys, or even Subarus.

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 02-22-2012 at 05:31 PM.
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:03 PM   #34
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Aside from the looks of the cars, Vantages are amazing cars to drive, they sound sweet, are extremely comfortable, and overall pleasing to both sit in and control on the road. That is what sells these cars to alot of people, and classic elegant styling helps with the demographic as well.
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Old 12-18-2013, 02:06 PM   #35
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Old 12-18-2013, 02:11 PM   #36
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Your constant supply of videos torquemada.

Yeah,

Keep it up.


I keep yelling at that twig driving the car to SHUT THE HELL UP
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Old 12-24-2013, 11:50 AM   #37
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Old 12-28-2013, 02:28 PM   #38
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Old 08-04-2014, 01:19 PM   #39
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