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Old 07-15-2012, 06:38 PM   #801
Irish2
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I'm a Subaru newbie but I've tracked tons of E30 325is and E36 M3s with suspensions set-ups "kinda" similar to the BRZ . Both the E30 and E36 Bimmers respond really well to -3.5+ degrees front and -2.5 rear camber AND a stiff front bar and soft rear bar. That effectively kills the loose rear. I know, Apples to Oranges. Front to rear weight bias is higher in the BRZ, which obviously has an effect on suspension loading. I've read every page of this thread. It's a great learning experience and helping me with my "what car do I buy next that has some of the joy of my E30? ". I love the premise of the BRZ. Thanks for such a smart thread.

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Originally Posted by Scooby South View Post
OK...Let me just say up front...HOLY SMOKES..this thing Responds to Alignment input.... and any kind of suspension tuning... With the camber sitting at -2.3 and 5.5 degrees of CASTOR... It planted the nose...and more or less could sit and spin on a dime... WOW... it 'tried' to go where I pointed it... it ROTATES and Pivots with the best of them...problem is...now the ass-end is loose, loose, loose... Course was a national style course...pretty open with lots of sweeps and transitions... The RE-01r's seemed to have absolutely NO GRIP in the rear @35 psi...the front was set at 40...I expected a marginal improvement in handling...what I got was a throttle on oversteer vehicle the skated all over the place..:/..I have never had a vehicle respond to minor tweaks like this one..... well I lowered the rear tire pressure to 28..*about as low as I wanted to take it...and ran in Sport mode on the traction control... it helped keep the rearend in check..however would not allow me to accelerate out of the corners like I wanted....bottom line is... This thing responds well to alignment tweeks...like no other... I ended up taking the Rear Bar completely off...it helped..but it was still twitchy under acceleration... With -2.4 degrees of camber...the wear pattern on the tires was about perfect...equal heat and rollover was right to the Arrow... now...IT NEEDS A FRONT BAR... I am hoping I can calm down the twitchyness with the coilovers... spring rates are going to be key to try to get the rear end planted so I can trust it to stick..almost like the rear stock spring rate is 'too much'... hard to believe I know.. but as twitchy as it was ...even with NO rear Bar...makes me wonder how it will respond to the Spring rates... more later..

Bill
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Old 07-15-2012, 09:38 PM   #802
Scooby South
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish2 View Post
I'm a Subaru newbie but I've tracked tons of E30 325is and E36 M3s with suspensions set-ups "kinda" similar to the BRZ . Both the E30 and E36 Bimmers respond really well to -3.5+ degrees front and -2.5 rear camber AND a stiff front bar and soft rear bar. That effectively kills the loose rear. I know, Apples to Oranges. Front to rear weight bias is higher in the BRZ, which obviously has an effect on suspension loading. I've read every page of this thread. It's a great learning experience and helping me with my "what car do I buy next that has some of the joy of my E30? ". I love the premise of the BRZ. Thanks for such a smart thread.
thank you...for the interest......really am trying to make this a good/imformative thread...along with alot of help from some good people also.

Bill
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Old 07-18-2012, 08:27 PM   #803
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Thanks to Kartboy. Power Mod Number one is on the way. Prototype Kartboy BRZ Pulley. Loosing 4lbs of rotating mass should speed up the Revs a bit. Not huge but every little bit helps. I should be able to install this and notice a bit of pickup, I hope. . Other Powermods in the future include:
-Header with high-flow cat
-Lightweight exhaust, midpipe
-intake: Has to have proven results.
-Some type of engine management: Cobb or Open Source
-Tune (maybe E85 with some other mods)

when it is all said and done, All this should render about 200 WHP or so with about 180 Torque..

Right now an OS Giken Rear 1.5 way diff is planned, but I am not sure it needs it because I am not lifting the inside wheel...it is very planted.

Bill
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Old 07-18-2012, 08:57 PM   #804
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This is my current letter to the SEB. My 3rd one to get the BRZ/FRS classed in ST*


Quote:
Request Details

Title: ST Classing
Category: Street Touring
Class: STall
Car: 2013 BRZ/FRS
Request: This letter is to provide the SEB with more infomation on ST Classing of the BRZ/FRS. I picked the car up on Jun 2nd and have competed in 4 events since the purchase, all of them local events except a CENTDIV event in Milwaukee Region on July 7 and 8, with some very Good talent in attendance. I am building my car for ST* class and never considered racing stock class. ST has 'always' been the plan. For Local events and CentDiv I contacted the local chairmans to get a feel for what class my BRZ would fall into. I have been racing mostly on a Pro STX index, anticipating that it the car will go to STX. I know there is alot of controversy on where it should be placed. but after 4 events. I am confident that STX IS the class it belongs in. I have Solo'd for 13 years, been a Tech Advisor, inspector, Director for my local Region when I lived in Florida. (Buccaneer).
The Car right now is probably as prepped as any in the country with Rims/tires, Coilovers, and few lightweight things. It has not been tuned or have a complete exhaust system done or an intake system.  With all that said... With all the things that 'can' be done in STX. It should be VERY competitive there. I have had some very excellent co-drivers helping me set the car up so most of the driver equation is not much a factor. Results from my events: Myself and Andy Smedegard drove in the first event..
http://www.met-council.org/2012_results/cvscc1_fin.htm
http://www.met-council.org/2012_results/cvscc1_raw.htm
http://www.met-council.org/2012_results/cvscc1_pax.htm

CEN Div was another chance to run with some decent talant. Myself and Bart Hockerman drove my BRZ to a 2nd/5th place finish in STX behind Neal Tovsen in his fully prepped BMW 328i. the first day we were about 1.4 secs down.... we were constantly adjusting the car
up thru Sunday as we were dialing in the suspension. On Sunday we were still 1.1 secs down to Neal even after we got the car about as good as it could be. There is no power mods done as I am waiting to see what develops in that arena. Suspension and tires/wheels are Done to pretty much the legal limit...comparing STX vs. STR times there was a 2 sec gap form STR to STX on both days for a total of about 4 secs. Can the BRZ with a Great Driver and fully Prepped compete in STR and make up that 4 secs. It is doubtful. There has also been some talk about maybe putting in STU. That might be a better fit than STR. Here are the Results for CentDiv:
http://www.scca-milwaukee.org/solo/2...s,%20Class.htm

INDEX

http://www.scca-milwaukee.org/solo/2...lts,%20PAX.htm
As you can see, It seems to be a pretty natural fit in STX. I originally wanted to run the Toledo Pro and the Peru Tour but am ineligible due to the car not being classed. I submitted my original letter back in March, "Letter number #7596 is currently waiting to be reviewed by the Street Touring committee. After the Street Touring committee reviews your letter, the SEB will review it, and it will proceed to Fastrack."
I understand not wanting to upset the applecart before Nats, but at least give the car an opportunity to run, even putting in STR for the rest of year so the board can gather Data and make an appropiate Class decision for the beginning of next year would be acceptable, at least that would get the car to events. I applaud your efforts to 'get it right' as the decision to make it CS is well accepted. If in anyway possible to get this platform classed in ST/SP before the end of the season would benefit all involved, Sponsors, competitors, the SCCA, and the rest of the BRZ/FRS community. Most people that have bought these have alresdy taken them to the local autocross so thats already helping local numbers. If there is anything I can help with or the board needs any kind of information, Please let me know.There are some pretty prominant names that currently own one of these:Sam Strano, Annie Bauer, Mako Koiwai, Andrew Polatta, Richard Hayter (Considering one)Paul Magee, Sebastion Rios and a Few others.Again...if theres anything you need from my end please let me know..Thank you for the consideration.
letter number #8839
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Old 07-19-2012, 09:45 PM   #805
Scooby South
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby South View Post
Thanks to Kartboy. Power Mod Number one is on the way. Prototype Kartboy BRZ Pulley. Loosing 4lbs of rotating mass should speed up the Revs a bit. Not huge but every little bit helps. I should be able to install this and notice a bit of pickup, I hope. . Other Powermods in the future include:
-Header with high-flow cat
-Lightweight exhaust, midpipe
-intake: Has to have proven results.
-Some type of engine management: Cobb or Open Source
-Tune (maybe E85 with some other mods)

when it is all said and done, All this should render about 200 WHP or so with about 180 Torque..

Right now an OS Giken Rear 1.5 way diff is planned, but I am not sure it needs it because I am not lifting the inside wheel...it is very planted.

Bill
1lb ...thats about all she is...

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Old 08-04-2012, 10:52 PM   #806
Scooby South
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more testing tomorrow ..... should be fairly dialed in now

Bill
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Old 08-05-2012, 07:23 PM   #807
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What an awesome, awesome day......Local autocross today, Car was pretty much flawless, Handling wise, I only adjust air pressures all day long. Ended up 3rd overall for RAW time...and 2nd Overall For Index time.. Video later.. For now:



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Old 08-05-2012, 09:35 PM   #808
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Congrats, Bill! Looks like things are coming along quite nicely.
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:41 PM   #809
Scooby South
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Thanks Steve....

Vid from todays event..

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Old 08-07-2012, 02:06 PM   #810
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Wahoooooo ...my plates showed up..

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Old 08-08-2012, 11:22 PM   #811
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Pidder Padder......PROGRESS....

Quote:
William Cook,
Your letter has been reviewed by the Street Touring committee, and a recommendation has been made to the SEB. The SEB will review your letter and the Street Touring committee's recommendation on their next conference call.
So After Nats...something official will be announced...wahooooooooo ...finally

Bill
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Old 08-08-2012, 11:37 PM   #812
96accord
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Deja Vu... Saw this somewhere else like a few minutes ago..
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Old 08-08-2012, 11:40 PM   #813
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I talked to a member of the SEB last weekend, as he/she asked my opinion. I told him/her that I believed STX was the proper place for the car, as it would get killed in STC, STR or STU.
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Old 08-08-2012, 11:51 PM   #814
Scooby South
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 96accord View Post
Deja Vu... Saw this somewhere else like a few minutes ago..
Yep....getting the word out.. ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlkWRXWag View Post
I talked to a member of the SEB last weekend, as he/she asked my opinion. I told him/her that I believed STX was the proper place for the car, as it would get killed in STC, STR or STU.
yep thats the same thing I have heard Also, Max... I will be surprised if it goes somewhere else...

Bill
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Old 08-09-2012, 06:34 AM   #815
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I think if they were going to bury it, they would have done it already. Its an STX car. If it ends up being the "IT" after development, then so be it.
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:58 AM   #816
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If that's the case, could be my next car. Interesting.
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Old 08-09-2012, 11:20 AM   #817
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STX is the only place the car makes sense based on the current rules.

They are just dragging their feet as always.
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Old 08-09-2012, 11:28 AM   #818
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It depends on their strategy. In STR, its safe and won't upset anything. In STX, it has potential to be a dominator and perhaps upset many people there. I'd prefer it to go to STX myself but I can see the other side of this argument for its first year being classed.
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Old 08-09-2012, 11:34 PM   #819
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlkWRXWag View Post
I talked to a member of the SEB last weekend, as he/she asked my opinion. I told him/her that I believed STX was the proper place for the car, as it would get killed in STC, STR or STU.
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Old 08-09-2012, 11:42 PM   #820
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The car is too fast for the current STX crop. If you wan't to blow up the 2nd most subscribed class at Nationals this year go ahead. Otherwise put it in STR, where it won't get killed, and see how things pan out in a year or two.

I know.. I know.. this IS a Subbie board..
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Old 08-09-2012, 11:47 PM   #821
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What makes you think it's too fast for STX?
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Old 08-10-2012, 08:45 AM   #822
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Yeah, it is a good platform for STX but by no means is it too fast. I think some guys at the local level think that because guys like Pallota and Bill are driving them. Yes, in the hands of a national level driver they are beating well prepped cars with less accomplished drivers at the local level. I don't think it is an overdog at the national level by any means.
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Old 08-10-2012, 01:11 PM   #823
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What makes you think it's too fast for STX?
Similar acceleration numbers to the RX8 but with 150lbs less weight.
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Old 08-10-2012, 01:13 PM   #824
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The concerns I would have is the lower starting weight and the much lower CoG.
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Old 08-10-2012, 01:21 PM   #825
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I still don't think it can hang with STR. Too heavy and no power.

SEB has a tricky decision. Put it in STR and potentially kill the car off, or put it in STX and maybe it becomes the car to have when STX is obviously very popular as it is.

I know my BRZ is stock, but it is so much slower than my MX5 acceleration wise, it's not funny. When fully built with a tune, it may get to the same level as the MX5, but it's still going to weigh a ton more. I just don't see it being competitive in STR.
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