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Old 08-10-2012, 01:24 PM   #826
ABQautoxer
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Max I agree it won't be competitive in STR. But from the other perspective can you say this doesn't have the potential to beat the RX8 and run with the 325? That's the part I'm less sure about. I personally want it in STX unless my mods ever go that route but just looking at the data and some track times it sure seems like it has some potential to be at the top of the class without much development though I'm not sure about that either.
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Old 08-10-2012, 01:27 PM   #827
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Well, time will tell, but I think the SEB wants this car to do well. They need to attract new people and having the car in a class where it could potentially win would be a good thing. They can always adjust the tire allowances if it turns out to be too much of an overdog.
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Old 08-10-2012, 01:30 PM   #828
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It seems people think the top cars in st classes should stay there forever.
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Old 08-10-2012, 01:35 PM   #829
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Agreed Max and Subiemax. I think one way to look at this is do you really want the car to have for STX be a mid 90s BMW or a $25k new car? One plus of the RX8 (and no, I personally never want to own one) is the cost of the car itself on the market while not being very old.
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Old 08-10-2012, 01:43 PM   #830
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I think the BRZ has the potential to be very competitive against the RX8's. An overdog, I am not so sure. A big part of how it falls is going to come down to what can be done inside the rules to help fix the power issues with the BRZ.

I would love to see it do well (mostly because I want to eventually transition to a BRZ), but if it eventually gets bumped up to STR because of how it performs so be it. Give it a shot at least to get all the new BRZ/FRS guys involved in Auto-X. And yes, I know the national level guys are all going to move to this sort of car if it runs well. But lets face it, the national level drivers are constantly shifting cars to make sure they in the most competitive vehicle and some to the class that has the least competition. They aren't going to change. If the BRZ being in STX helps the local level then that is what you really want.
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Old 08-10-2012, 01:45 PM   #831
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It seems people think the top cars in st classes should stay there forever.
I don't see history supporting that claim. The Civic was moved out of STX last year opening it back up. There should be some level of stability in a prepared class though. Development of a car takes considerable time, effort and resources from those in the class.

Attracting new people to the SCCA is paramount. STX is accomplishing that I as type with being tied for the 2nd largest class so far. Adding a new car which can be an overdog is not necessarily the a safest decision to support that growth.

If there is that much interest in the car, why not create a supplemental ST class for them?
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Old 08-10-2012, 01:47 PM   #832
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I think the BRZ has the potential to be very competitive against the RX8's. An overdog, I am not so sure. A big part of how it falls is going to come down to what can be done inside the rules to help fix the power issues with the BRZ.

I would love to see it do well (mostly because I want to eventually transition to a BRZ), but if it eventually gets bumped up to STR because of how it performs so be it. Give it a shot at least to get all the new BRZ/FRS guys involved in Auto-X. And yes, I know the national level guys are all going to move to this sort of car if it runs well. But lets face it, the national level drivers are constantly shifting cars to make sure they in the most competitive vehicle and some to the class that has the least competition. They aren't going to change. If the BRZ being in STX helps the local level then that is what you really want.
This.
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Old 08-10-2012, 02:24 PM   #833
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It seems people think the top cars in st all classes should stay there forever.
FYP dude.
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Old 08-10-2012, 02:25 PM   #834
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I don't see history supporting that claim. The Civic was moved out of STX last year opening it back up. There should be some level of stability in a prepared class though. Development of a car takes considerable time, effort and resources from those in the class.

Attracting new people to the SCCA is paramount. STX is accomplishing that I as type with being tied for the 2nd largest class so far. Adding a new car which can be an overdog is not necessarily the a safest decision to support that growth.

If there is that much interest in the car, why not create a supplemental ST class for them?
And it took what, 6 years to get the Civics out of the other classes?
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Old 08-10-2012, 02:57 PM   #835
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To me it will come down to how light the car can be made with STX legal mods and what kind of power gains people can get with STX legal mods.

Right now I would say 2550 lbs might be doable with all of the STX legal stuff done and from what I've seen so far power wise I would expect 25-30WHP and maybe 15-20FT-LBS from STX legal mods and ECU tuning. The tuning has been shown to reduce the torque dip as well, mainly shifting it lower in the RPM band, so coupled with raising the redline should keep the car out of the torque dip for the bulk of most 2nd gear autocrosses. I think that's just as important as the car making more overall torque/HP.

Heh I drove a 2007 MX-5 the other day back to back with my BRZ (co-worker and I swapped car) and both were slow but the BRZ was definitely faster once you wring it out above 5000 RPM. Both cars are bone stock.
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Old 08-10-2012, 09:43 PM   #836
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Right now in this moment in time I would say the BRZ is going to be competitive in STX. I raced against a National level Bimmer with Neal Tovsen and ended up being about 2.5 secs down to him after it was said and done. I think the car can get as light as 2500lbs but thats going to take some serious weight reduction. 2550 is more Realistic. Mine right now weighs 2604 ..and I still have Seats and Exhaust to do yet. Minus 29lbs for the exhaust, and minus another 30lbs for seats..I don't know anywhere else to really loose the weight. I already have a LW battery, Muffler delete and some other minor weight loss things. I also don't think the car will go much over 200 WHP.. maybe 210 on good day, and I will raise my Redline to 8000 rpm.. With that all said, I think it can hang with the BMW's and RX8's... Dominate...No.. Competitive...Yes.. just for the sake of argument, STR is running about 2 secs quicker than STX locally..however there is some guns in STR here also... Colin Fieldler being one of them..He placed 4th in STR @ Peru. Jason Frank is also Local as well as Cashmore..so theres lots of competition..and its always a dogfight to see who comes out on top...

It might be 'behind in STR'.. I don't think it would be last... Midpack at best on a good day...could it win STR??? Don't think so. Could it win in STX...Yes..and it would be close.

My 02 pesos

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Old 08-11-2012, 12:26 PM   #837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperTopNWOR View Post
I think the BRZ has the potential to be very competitive against the RX8's. An overdog, I am not so sure. A big part of how it falls is going to come down to what can be done inside the rules to help fix the power issues with the BRZ.

I would love to see it do well (mostly because I want to eventually transition to a BRZ), but if it eventually gets bumped up to STR because of how it performs so be it. Give it a shot at least to get all the new BRZ/FRS guys involved in Auto-X. And yes, I know the national level guys are all going to move to this sort of car if it runs well. But lets face it, the national level drivers are constantly shifting cars to make sure they in the most competitive vehicle and some to the class that has the least competition. They aren't going to change. If the BRZ being in STX helps the local level then that is what you really want.
Yepper.
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Old 08-11-2012, 02:50 PM   #838
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Originally Posted by Scooby South View Post
Right now in this moment in time I would say the BRZ is going to be competitive in STX. I raced against a National level Bimmer with Neal Tovsen and ended up being about 2.5 secs down to him after it was said and done...

My 02 pesos

Bill
Sports Car picked Neal to win STX this year, so 2.5 seconds back is still pretty decent considering the level of prep of the car right now. That BMW has years of tuning and tweaking behind it, you've had your car since May. I think you can get a lot faster, and that 2.5 seconds might be completely gone just due to tuning.

That said, I'd like to see the car in STX at least to begin with. If it's too fast it can be moved to STR.
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Old 08-11-2012, 10:14 PM   #839
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Updates Bill.... :-/
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Old 08-12-2012, 09:44 AM   #840
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Updates Bill.... :-/
Ok.. I did do a mod on Thursday. I updated my intake system, One of my first Power mods. I deleted the Factory Intake Tube with the sound Generator (-5 lbs) and replaced it with a Aluminum tube, some Silicone Ends and a K&N Panel filter... Throttle Response was noticeably more snappy and it felt like the Power band opened up a bit. and its just more efficient for flow over stock. Total Cost about $100 as a DIY project. Dyno will tell if I actually picked up any HP. but for now..I like it.

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Old 08-12-2012, 09:49 AM   #841
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And then, This happened yesterday after I had just got my oil changed.
P0019 Alert: Got my oil Changed yesterday *2.5 hours away* was doing some Errands... and had just got back in the car...started to drive off and noticed the exhaust Sounded different... then I noticed the car wasn't pulling like it did... and sounded like it was running on 2 cyls. Stopped at the Stop light and the Idle Fluctuated enough for the car to shake...then ...the CEL came on.. left the light...car felt like it went to Limp mode and the Traction light was on along with the CEL.. Pulled over Checked the CEL .*Had my Codereader with me as it was in my Travel Stuff for a AutoX tomorrow* P0019: Camshaft/Crankshaft Position Sensor ..Reset it drove to some other Errands...about 20 miles..seemed fine..but it poped again..Car is back at the dealership awaiting diagnostics.

Bill
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Old 08-12-2012, 11:14 AM   #842
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P0019: Camshaft/Crankshaft Position Sensor ..Reset it drove to some other Errands...about 20 miles..seemed fine..but it poped again..Car is back at the dealership awaiting diagnostics.
DeJa Vu. Damn. My car is in the shop with a similar issue.

Did you pull the intake mod and re-try things?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlkWRXWag
I know my BRZ is stock, but it is so much slower than my MX5 acceleration wise, it's not funny.
Damn Max, that was fast. Just couldn't resist, could you?

I was close to getting one myself, but in the end the allure of power won.
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Old 08-12-2012, 11:21 AM   #843
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Steve...No... I was 2.5 hours down the road when all this happened. don't think the intake mod would have anything to do with it since I drove it for 200 miles and no light...I am wondering tho, if it has something to do with the oil change...like the AVCS lost all its oil when they changed it and couldn't 'self' prime itself??? I don't know..thinking out loud. there is a long Thread on FT86 about it, with other people having the same issue. They replaced the ECU, the Cam gears and the Cam Sensor itself to fix it.

Bill
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Old 08-12-2012, 11:30 AM   #844
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there is a long Thread on FT86 about it, with other people having the same issue. They replaced the ECU, the Cam gears and the Cam Sensor itself to fix it.

Bill
Damn, thanks sucks. I wouldn't think an AVCS system could be that error prone and haven't heard another AVCS system that has had that issue - but you never know.

That said, you might need to mentally prepare for leaving it at the dealer for a while.
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Old 08-12-2012, 11:44 AM   #845
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I read on Facebook about the CEL :-(
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Old 08-12-2012, 02:56 PM   #846
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Sorry to hear, I've followed a couple threads on the other forum and it looks like a revised ECU fixed the issue?

I don't drive mine much so I only have about 1200 miles on it in 2 months, but someone mentioned a TSB which stated cars with a lower VIN were susceptible to the issue, but those were FR-S and not BRZs so the VINs don't exactly match up.

My car has always idled well but it does have the chirping noise. I took it to a local dealer so they could at least note it, but so far it's been considered normal.

Here is a picture of the ECU, apparently there is a revised one which fixed one person's issue which ends in 811 instead of 810...

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Old 08-18-2012, 11:38 AM   #847
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Well...I am getting mine back... it threw 3 codes total... p0019 Cam/crank sensor Sensor 2 bank 2... My dealer was great.. however they didn't replace anything.. Techline told them to swith out the sensors from right to left and see which side the code comes back on ...either to the sensor side...or the camgear side... well after they put 350 miles on my car..the codes have not come back......yet..so they want me to pick up my car so..and depending on which side the code come back on is the part they replace...either the sensor...or the camgear... so now I play the waiting game..... I am pretty sure its going to come back...but don't know when... it could be 3500 'more' miles before I see it.. this is from Subaru Corp ...telling the tech to switch it out....hopefully its later rather than sooner as I have the Subaru Challenge in Indiana next weekend......hope its ok ...

Bill
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Old 08-18-2012, 12:26 PM   #848
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Well...I am getting mine back... it threw 3 codes total... p0019 Cam/crank sensor Sensor 2 bank 2... My dealer was great.. however they didn't replace anything.. Techline told them to swith out the sensors from right to left and see which side the code comes back on ...either to the sensor side...or the camgear side... well after they put 350 miles on my car..the codes have not come back......yet..so they want me to pick up my car so..and depending on which side the code come back on is the part they replace...either the sensor...or the camgear... so now I play the waiting game..... I am pretty sure its going to come back...but don't know when... it could be 3500 'more' miles before I see it.. this is from Subaru Corp ...telling the tech to switch it out....hopefully its later rather than sooner as I have the Subaru Challenge in Indiana next weekend......hope its ok ...

Bill
Thanks for the update Bill and sorry you're having to go thru that. I guess that's the downside of us being early adopters for a new platform? I'm right at 3000 miles on my BRZ and so far so good (knocks on wood). Maybe everything will be cool and the CELs will stay away. If they come back, I hope it doesn't affect your ability to compete for any extended period of time.
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Old 08-18-2012, 02:46 PM   #849
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Damn Bill :-(

Hope it never comes back!!
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Old 08-18-2012, 03:36 PM   #850
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Me too, I hope its 'fixed' but I doubt it. I expected first year growing pains on new platform... soo No biggie just don't want to damage anything. More power mods coming soon as Kartboy shipped a Lightweight prototype Pully, that and my Intake mod should speed things up a little bit. Have to work on the exhaust/tune next. Looks like this thing won't get officially classed until after Nats, which I expected also-they don't want to upset the apple cart.. Word is it 'might' go to STR to begin with... I expect when its said and done, the car will have about 200-210 WHP ...which will be somewhat competitive in STR. A National Level S2K has about 220 WHP. We'll see I guess. Subaru Challenge At the Subaru Plant in Indiana is the next Venue.
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