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Old 10-23-2012, 10:13 AM   #3576
isis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowgenius
Bee, good to hear your being healthy, sorry no beer. There are some gluten free ones i think.
Gluten free beers suck. And they'll still make you fat if consumed in normal beer quantities.
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:43 AM   #3577
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So, what to play
with next ?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowgenius
Bee, good to hear your being healthy, sorry no beer. There are some gluten free ones i think.
I don't want to use up the small amount of carbs I allow myself on stuff that most likely sux so I have yet to try any.
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Old 10-23-2012, 11:28 AM   #3578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moore Performance View Post

- 2010 Lotus Evora turbo system (in development stage)

- Building a 20'x30' clean room in the shop for engine assembly and prepping for a much larger welding/fab section at our facility

Looking forward to these two things the most. But wow, looks like the rest of it is keeping you guys busy as hell!
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Old 10-23-2012, 11:38 AM   #3579
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So, what to play
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blinden

I changed NOTHING else in my lifestyle (exercise/diet/etc) except cutting out pizza and beer for one month, and lost 10 pounds.

YAY Empty Calories!
I am looking to lose sixty . So I have dropped everything except meat , dairy, veggies and fruit. Nothing processed. I still use a little sugar but only turbinado.
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Old 10-23-2012, 02:08 PM   #3580
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sounds pretty good. i only really drink beers when it's hot out. i've had one, yesterday. since Ryans wedding.
also i replaced candy bars with celery sticks or carrots. i need to chew on things when i'm workin late late nights. i think i didn't gain 20 lbs this summer cause of that. so many late late nights! in the winter, i keep the house cold(64? that's cold enough) and i end up doing pushups and situps etc when i feel cold. which is often.

really though, i normally get my exercise with your mom, but i just haven't been in the mood for mountain climbing.
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Old 10-23-2012, 02:42 PM   #3581
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So Tom bought an 'Element Tuning Pro Comp' engine as stated:

Quote:
Element Pro Comp: $6547+ (Installed $7397+): Recommended for Turbochargers 450 whp up to 800 whp and 8500 RPM. You want the exact same engine Element Tuning runs in our “Unlimited” Time Attack STi then look no further. Whether you want to make 400 whp or 800 whp this will have the biggest and fattest powerband you Subaru can have. This motor is setup to maximize HP from 4000 RPM to 8500 RPM with the addition of our “Big Valve” head package. Custom piston top coatings, intake manifold, cooling system upgrades, oil pump upgrades, and other parts may be recommended by Element Tuning. We will tell you what you need to make this engine combination all it can be on your Subaru!
The description claims the engine is the 'exact same' as the one used in their Time Attack STI. But, reading Phil's most recent posts seems to contradict this statement. He is saying the block they used for Tom's Engine is weaker than the one in their 'Time Attack STI'; and that it won't survive the advertised power rating without cracking liners.

So Tom paid for an engine that was sold to him as being capable of 800whp but did not receive it. Phil, what do you have to say about this?

I believe that if Element Tuning is selling engines built with the new 'weaker' casting, they should either reinforce it to bring it up to the level of 'Element Pro Comp' engines, or de-rate the power level. Basically, I believe the received product should be as advertised.


Absolutely Top Notch... Well done shek
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Old 10-23-2012, 02:43 PM   #3582
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Moore--Do you guys stock those plate deletes? I live in peters and would run down tomorrow to grab one if they are there and to check out the shop, i was talking to Adam (salesman) at buddbaer he told me about you guys and i wanted to get an idea of cost on a few things for one of my cars.
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Old 10-23-2012, 02:46 PM   #3583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by explicithero View Post
So Tom bought an 'Element Tuning Pro Comp' engine as stated:

Quote:
Element Pro Comp: $6547+ (Installed $7397+): Recommended for Turbochargers 450 whp up to 800 whp and 8500 RPM. You want the exact same engine Element Tuning runs in our “Unlimited” Time Attack STi then look no further. Whether you want to make 400 whp or 800 whp this will have the biggest and fattest powerband you Subaru can have. This motor is setup to maximize HP from 4000 RPM to 8500 RPM with the addition of our “Big Valve” head package. Custom piston top coatings, intake manifold, cooling system upgrades, oil pump upgrades, and other parts may be recommended by Element Tuning. We will tell you what you need to make this engine combination all it can be on your Subaru!
The description claims the engine is the 'exact same' as the one used in their Time Attack STI. But, reading Phil's most recent posts seems to contradict this statement. He is saying the block they used for Tom's Engine is weaker than the one in their 'Time Attack STI'; and that it won't survive the advertised power rating without cracking liners.

So Tom paid for an engine that was sold to him as being capable of 800whp but did not receive it. Phil, what do you have to say about this?

I believe that if Element Tuning is selling engines built with the new 'weaker' casting, they should either reinforce it to bring it up to the level of 'Element Pro Comp' engines, or de-rate the power level. Basically, I believe the received product should be as advertised.


Absolutely Top Notch... Well done shek
ohh COMEON, it's 2012, at least LINK to what the hell you are talking about!
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Old 10-23-2012, 02:53 PM   #3584
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Pretty obvious i thought. He is talking about Phil and Tom... Where else could that be posted.... HMMM tom's build thread maybe???
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:32 PM   #3585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by explicithero View Post
Pretty obvious i thought. He is talking about Phil and Tom... Where else could that be posted.... HMMM tom's build thread maybe???
80% of the posters in this thread don't leave this thread. FACT!

now you expect people to leave the pittsburgh thread to find some other thread that apparently is unlinkable!?!?!
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:44 PM   #3586
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That is your choice to go look or not. The quoted portion is really just to give shek some props on shaking things up if you are that interested go read his 150 page thread and catch up. Or don't. I don't feel i need to post a link when the search button is oh so close.

Searching his user name would be the first thing Id do.
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:10 PM   #3587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prkskir412 View Post
Moore--Do you guys stock those plate deletes? I live in peters and would run down tomorrow to grab one if they are there and to check out the shop, i was talking to Adam (salesman) at buddbaer he told me about you guys and i wanted to get an idea of cost on a few things for one of my cars.
They are not currently stocked because sales have exceeded production. I should be caught up by the end of the week though. They are basically made to order because on November 1st they will no longer be available! It is a limited production item. Shipping is included in the price!

A Moore Performance front plate delete would be available in carbon fiber though! That is currently a made to order item as well.

(Edit: I work for Moore as their development engineer if you haven't figured that out)
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:13 PM   #3588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by explicithero View Post
That is your choice to go look or not. The quoted portion is really just to give shek some props on shaking things up if you are that interested go read his 150 page thread and catch up. Or don't. I don't feel i need to post a link when the search button is oh so close.

Searching his user name would be the first thing Id do.
well, i'm obviously well to busy for that.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:06 PM   #3589
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Anyone buying/selling a 704 casting block with over 350whp goals is risking a failure of the cylinder walls according to some folks on the forums.

Some people are beginning to acknowledge what seems to be a trend that way. Phil is one of them. Time will tell if its luck of the draw, tuning, a factory design change, or assembly technique, etc.

Some people with power goals over this threshold like Tom, and I will include myself, have been made aware of this issue and are stuck with what was thought to be 500+whp motors.

The biggest issue is that once a motor is put together and all the cost has been accounted, if sleeves or some other form of reinforcement (outfront, element) were not in the initial build the only option is to now pay extra for teardown, machining, materials and reassembly.

In Toms case, i may be wrong, but Phil developed his procedure after Toms new motor was put together. If Tom skipped it, or Phil knew all this and didnt mention it then that would be a different story.

Im stuck with either selling my engine and starting over with a sleeved motor, or getting it reinforced and paying twice for alot of the machine work required to do an engine build.

Phil says it adds maybe 600 if a new motor from him, or 2200+ if a redo. Ask me how i know. Either way, it sucks but im glad i know now, instead of loosing a whole motor.
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Old 10-24-2012, 10:00 AM   #3590
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Guys I need some help. My buddy curbed the wheel on his 2012 maserati GT. Can anyone fix it or know someone who can fix it? Thanks :-)
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Old 10-24-2012, 11:46 AM   #3591
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Thanks Adam. I just felt like being a dick plus I don't like the **** that Phil likes to talk on the stock ECU.



Quote:
Originally Posted by slowgenius View Post
In Toms case, i may be wrong, but Phil developed his procedure after Toms new motor was put together. If Tom skipped it, or Phil knew all this and didnt mention it then that would be a different story.

Phil says it adds maybe 600 if a new motor from him, or 2200+ if a redo. Ask me how i know. Either way, it sucks but im glad i know now, instead of loosing a whole motor.
If you bought a complete engine from Element brand new, you should not have to pay for an error that's not your fault. If Element is selling 800whp capable motors, then they should be 800whp capable... This is not too difficult to understand.

If I spent $7000 of my hard earned money for someone else to build an engine (not that I ever would let anyone else build an engine for me) that is supposed to be 800whp capable but they ended up shipping me an engine that is only 350whp capable, you better believe that I would be sending that engine right the hell back for a full refund! They can they choose to disassemble that engine and reinforce it to bring it up to 800whp levels and ship it back to me but I will not be paying a single dime for their screw up!

And this whole business about, 'oh I'm sorry, I didn't know that at the time' is not a legitimate excuse.

If Element sourced the blocks themselves and built it into a complete engine, any recall work is all on them. Period.
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Old 10-24-2012, 11:51 AM   #3592
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time to bring out the MIG-25 blocks I've been talking with Dale about!
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Old 10-24-2012, 11:53 AM   #3593
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I didn't understand his claim about the stock ecu being responsible for engine failures.
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:29 PM   #3594
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Its not too hard to understand for us common folks. Do i think it will happen? Pobably not. Only litigation could force the issue. That would include anyone advertising their built motors capability though, or any part sourced for the motor that made simmilar claims. Usually after a part failure then it is tested as to why it failed. A rod rated 700hp fails at 699. Now what? Send it back. Unless an actual defect is found, you will be told it was abuse. Too bad.

This all boils down to trust and reputation. A shop stakes its reputation, which hopefully is built upon proven results. For some people it works out some people it doesnt. A customer can only trust, and check up on if possible work being done.

Nobody has determined exactly why the 704 doesnt seem to be capable of the same power level of the earlier castings, nobody has been real quick about calling off production of their built engine program untill they have conclusive evidence either.

These motors arent some mass produced product with millions spent on development. Subaru hasnt even recalled the stock Sti motor for ringland failure at what 300 crank? I applaud anyone that is confident enough, capable enough, and has the extra cash to build a real deal 600+ hp subaru motor their self.

So phil says i race this engine, you can have one just like it for 7k. He blew up 3 and said hey, somethings wrong. Here is how i fixed it. He isnt twisting anybodys arm. Clearly anyone would think that since they bought the same motor it will be just as capable. Well all three failed. That means it needs fixed to perform at that level. Phill tells people that.

As many small business do he needs to update his website. His statements about racing it are true, even if in the mean time subaru changed their design.
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:58 PM   #3595
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Originally Posted by MRF582 View Post
Thanks Adam. I just felt like being a dick plus I don't like the **** that Phil likes to talk on the stock ECU.

And this whole business about, 'oh I'm sorry, I didn't know that at the time' is not a legitimate excuse.

If Element sourced the blocks themselves and built it into a complete engine, any recall work is all on them. Period.
I agree with this, the contract was: I give you $X, you give me product Y.

It's not a great situation, but, if subaru introduced new blocks, and they were untested, they shouldn't have been sold under that pretense. This loss should never fall on the customer.
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Old 10-24-2012, 02:41 PM   #3596
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It seems to be the case that 701, 702, 703 were ok. The lesson here is if the casting changes so should the engine plan until tested. Nobody did that because the changes didnt cause an issue until now.

Subaru sells a 300 crank hp block. Why would they announce a change to anyone unless they were a factory authorized engine program?

People just buy the blocks and build them up. At 3 times the factory power level everyone is just guessing.

Last edited by slowgenius; 10-24-2012 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 10-24-2012, 02:50 PM   #3597
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Originally Posted by slowgenius View Post
It seems to be the case that 701, 702, 703 were ok. The lesson here is if the casting changes so should the engine plan until tested. Nobody did that because the changes didnt cause an issue until now.
Nobody did that because the changes didnt cause an issue until they usd them...

a part of the cost you pay when you buy a "built motor" is the R&D, that should cover **** like this. If they didn't do due diligence in testing a product but still offered it as doing what previous versions did, that's probably not good business.
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Old 10-24-2012, 02:53 PM   #3598
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Originally Posted by Blinden View Post
I agree with this, the contract was: I give you $X, you give me product Y.

It's not a great situation, but, if subaru introduced new blocks, and they were untested, they shouldn't have been sold under that pretense. This loss should never fall on the customer.
Exactly!
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Old 10-24-2012, 02:58 PM   #3599
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good question!

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oh snap we should probably take this over to the pittsburgh hostility thread... cause that thread was alot more fun
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Old 10-24-2012, 03:02 PM   #3600
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oh snap we should probably take this over to the pittsburgh hostility thread... cause that thread was alot more fun
A) what's the pittsburgh hostility thread? you got link?
B) This **** isn't getting anywhere near hostile
3) **** YOU!
D) your mom.
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