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Old 02-26-2013, 04:39 PM   #4526
isis
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Quote:
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Funny, that's the same impression i have about all your moms.
Shek has more than one Mom?
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:43 PM   #4527
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I'm subscribed...back in the land of turbo with my 3rd subie so I'm motivated again!
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:44 PM   #4528
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Btw...you guys are a bunch of ****
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:11 PM   #4529
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Shek has more than one Mom?
lolwut?
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:25 AM   #4530
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yeah is mom is also his dad!
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:39 AM   #4531
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are yinz meeting in robinson next weds?
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:17 AM   #4532
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yo dawg, what you got against assexual reproduction?

Timothy, yes a bunch of people will gather at the QSL there next week. Brush up on 'your mom' jokes by then!
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:59 AM   #4533
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Here's some more technical mumbojumbo.

These are two graphs comparing AFR at steady state on Modified (decapped) Topfeed injectors @ effective pulsewidths of 0.9ms and 1.4ms. Injector latency is about 1.0ms so actual pulsewidths are about 1.9 and 2.4ms.

X axis is in deciseconds.



Jesse, did you ever notice anything like this when you had these in your Saabaru?

Last edited by MRF582; 02-27-2013 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:48 PM   #4534
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:53 PM   #4535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRF582 View Post
Here's some more technical mumbojumbo.

These are two graphs comparing AFR at steady state on Modified (decapped) Topfeed injectors @ effective pulsewidths of 0.9ms and 1.4ms. Injector latency is about 1.0ms so actual pulsewidths are about 1.9 and 2.4ms.

X axis is in deciseconds.

Jesse, did you ever notice anything like this when you had these in your Saabaru?
Notice what? I'm really not sure what the graphs are supposed to be showing me. Is there something abnormal that I'm missing?
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Old 02-27-2013, 02:19 PM   #4536
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Yeah, the AFR scatter! Less than 0.5AFR scatter vs. almost a full 1.0AFR scatter!

Can you guess which graph feels smoother to drive?

Last edited by MRF582; 02-27-2013 at 02:25 PM.
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Old 02-27-2013, 02:32 PM   #4537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRF582 View Post
Yeah, the AFR scatter! Less than 0.5AFR scatter vs. almost a full 1.0AFR scatter!

Can you guess which graph feels smoother to drive?
What did you change between the two?

It just seems like you had the throttle open more on the second one, which I would think would be easier to hold AFR on a higher load.
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Old 02-27-2013, 02:43 PM   #4538
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What did you change between the two?
Both graphs were taken within a minute of each other changing nothing in the tune. I was trying to plot the injector response/behavior at the two different pulsewidths as indicated.

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Originally Posted by bubba2533 View Post
It just seems like you had the throttle open more on the second one, which I would think would be easier to hold AFR on a higher load.
Why is that?
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:21 PM   #4539
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shek you're logging direct V as well? in deciseconds? would not be surprised if that was noise, or just more combustion events happening per second to "smooth" your graph over the time axis. none of that looks out of line with what i'd expect.
i also wouldn't expect a wideband to output a super smooth 5v signal either, it's probably PWM output. and the smoothing would depend on the smoothign cap and signal.

try doing high speed crank angle logging, and log combustion chamber pressure vs crank angle, and tune for that. resultant timing, AFR and EGT, hell even HP and tq are whatever they fall at.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:34 PM   #4540
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At that low throttle angle I'd wonder if your exhaust isn't swirling around some intake valve overlap as well. You have cams and a fat, open exhaust. At super low airflow I'd guess you may see that. What's idle look like?

I haven't messed with tuning for probably two years and haven't even logged for around one so I couldn't tell you if I've ever seen that, but it's most likely because I never looked.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:38 PM   #4541
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this is giving me a headache...i'm not sure why i was even trying to follow along there, thats wayyy over my head
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:39 PM   #4542
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...kind of like when your mom is giving me a helicopter
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:40 PM   #4543
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I'm not sure it's just data either. You wouldn't feel a capacitor smoothing a voltage signal and that's some crazy placebo effect if that were the case.

Like Kid Rock said once, if its real, you'll feel it.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:48 PM   #4544
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One more thing to think about, is if its not smooth that's what the AFR is gonna look like. Log during clutch shudder, or dog it below 2k up a hill and plot your AFR. It may be the effect of the 'non-smoothness' and not the cause.
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:57 PM   #4545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRF582 View Post
Both graphs were taken within a minute of each other changing nothing in the tune. I was trying to plot the injector response/behavior at the two different pulsewidths as indicated.

Why is that?
Cause you could be nearing the non-linear region of the injector flow vs. pulse width curve.
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:47 PM   #4546
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shek you're logging direct V as well? in deciseconds? would not be surprised if that was noise, or just more combustion events happening per second to "smooth" your graph over the time axis. none of that looks out of line with what i'd expect.
i also wouldn't expect a wideband to output a super smooth 5v signal either, it's probably PWM output. and the smoothing would depend on the smoothign cap and signal.

try doing high speed crank angle logging, and log combustion chamber pressure vs crank angle, and tune for that. resultant timing, AFR and EGT, hell even HP and tq are whatever they fall at.
Time scale is in deciseconds because the sample rate was about 10Hz and the x-axis is actually cell row number.

That was at ~3000RPM. That's what ~100 combustions per 10 deciseconds? If it was individual combustion peaks, you'd see that in both graphs. Also, that's the factory sensor in the factory location. Again, compare the two graphs. If both looked jagged, then I would be on board with the other theories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by isis View Post
At that low throttle angle I'd wonder if your exhaust isn't swirling around some intake valve overlap as well. You have cams and a fat, open exhaust. At super low airflow I'd guess you may see that. What's idle look like?
Idle looks about the same, maybe slightly worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubba2533 View Post
Cause you could be nearing the non-linear region of the injector flow vs. pulse width curve.
Winn4r! The theory is that stock injectors were never meant to be driven below 1.2ms worst case.
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:50 PM   #4547
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Anyone selling some 11-13 WRX wheels by chance? I know no one has any 04 STI 5x100 BBS's.. lol Any other 5x100's out there?
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:31 PM   #4548
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Winn4r! The theory is that stock injectors were never meant to be driven below 1.2ms worst case.
Yay, what do I win?
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:57 PM   #4549
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Yay, what do I win?
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:04 PM   #4550
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Y u no share
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