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Old 08-27-2014, 11:04 AM   #8401
Moore Performance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBoley24 View Post
B.) Are there any decals that I can put on my car that will gain HP???

I hope to see you guys at a meet or something of the sort! I don't think that there are many white turbo bajas around these parts.

Each "regular" decal worth 1 extra HP. Moore Performance decals = 5 to 10 extra horsepower. Just sayin.

We look forward to seeing you at next month's meet and we just had a customer in yesterday preparing to mod a black turbo Baja. Gotta love the turbo mini truck from Subaru!
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Old 08-27-2014, 11:19 AM   #8402
wrxscal412
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Love the driver commentary. "Bloody Hell"

http://jalopnik.com/watch-this-dual-...cry-1627015128
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Old 08-27-2014, 02:37 PM   #8403
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Originally Posted by no694terry View Post
excuse my ignorance but why's everyone so adamant about tunes. Aren't these cars MAF based and an increase in exhaust flow pretty much means and increase in airflow which the MAF should see and adjust accordingly. I'm just lost, I understand compression changes or other large mechanical changes should be accounted for for peak performance but dont see how the modern ECU will let an engine grenade itself, especially with built in knock, wideband, and EGT sensors. Are the newer ECU's just setup with less flexibility for emissions or something? i just dont get it.
Yep, you're absolutely right. The only thing that really needs to be changed for small airflow mods like this is to reduce the delay between CL and OL. Quicker spool means you get to a higher load site quicker and run stoich AFR for longer in boost. Otherwise, not much else needs to be done for the car to be safe.

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Originally Posted by explicithero View Post
He probably isn't going to a bigger maf housing, but He is going to be getting more air through his intake and Subaru mafs suck at adjusting, and stock maps are terrible. He can get more power safer out of a stock map than you can when adding just an intake.

I remember reading a few places tested whether to see an I take gained any performance on a Subaru just by putting an intake on And if the car is a turbo you actually lost spool and power.
Your 1st paragraph is total BS. There is no 'adjusting' that the MAF sensor needs when you haven't altered the intake flow dynamics. That's the whole point of a MAF sensor. To convert airflow into voltage.

Your 2nd paragraph talks about changing multiple variables at once and implies that any one of those would result in a detrimental effect.
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Old 08-27-2014, 03:41 PM   #8404
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Originally Posted by MRF582 View Post
Yep, you're absolutely right. The only thing that really needs to be changed for small airflow mods like this is to reduce the delay between CL and OL. Quicker spool means you get to a higher load site quicker and run stoich AFR for longer in boost. Otherwise, not much else needs to be done for the car to be safe.


Your 1st paragraph is total BS. There is no 'adjusting' that the MAF sensor needs when you haven't altered the intake flow dynamics. That's the whole point of a MAF sensor. To convert airflow into voltage.
Show me proof that adding an intake doesn't increase airflow compared to a stock airbox with silencers. and a maf has to make beable to read the increased amount of airflow, which it sucks at doing. What else do I need to disprove your statement that my comment is total BS


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Originally Posted by MRF582 View Post
Your 2nd paragraph talks about changing multiple variables at once and implies that any one of those would result in a detrimental effect.
The test I am talking about they did nothing more than literally add a god darn intake you arrogant asshat. So there are not multiple changing variables when you are talking about doing a baseline pull, then adding an intake and doing another pull. Nothing but the intake changed, not even the air temp or the barometric pressure.

Go suck off your mom shek
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Old 08-27-2014, 04:07 PM   #8405
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Show me proof that adding an intake doesn't increase airflow compared to a stock airbox with silencers. and a maf has to make beable to read the increased amount of airflow, which it sucks at doing. What else do I need to disprove your statement that my comment is total BS




The test I am talking about they did nothing more than literally add a god darn intake you arrogant asshat. So there are not multiple changing variables when you are talking about doing a baseline pull, then adding an intake and doing another pull. Nothing but the intake changed, not even the air temp or the barometric pressure.

Go suck off your mom shek
Highlighted the part in bold that is wrong. The stock MAF on an 04-07 STI for example can easily read all the way up to ~350g/s. That is considerably more than about the 250g/s it reads stock.

Changing an intake is changing multiple discrete variables. Cross-sectional diameter, input geometry, output geometry, pipe flow dynamics, thermal resistance properties, I could go on and on.
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Old 08-27-2014, 05:48 PM   #8406
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Old 08-27-2014, 06:22 PM   #8407
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Your mom appreciated my cross sectional diameter, input geometry, output and resistance properties.
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Old 08-27-2014, 06:32 PM   #8408
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The stock AFR scaling on my 05 16 bit ecu was waaaay off over 200 g/s. It took me a long time to realize that was the problem. Since the timing and fuel maps divide by 's' again, the issues walked around every time the temps changed.

Once it was right, there was no difference between the stock box with or without the silencer and the old Perrin MAF housing that I ported and polished to have smooth transitions to the pipes.
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Old 08-27-2014, 10:08 PM   #8409
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^That wasn't the case on any of the 16 bit ECUs I've tuned. I've tested all the way up to 275g/s on the stock MAF on my personal car. I've seen datalogs of well into 285g/s with a completely stock MAF scaling and resulted in actual AFR matching commanded.
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Old 08-27-2014, 10:23 PM   #8410
BBoley24
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My god, I now realize why I bought a subaru. This is awesome.

I do believe I saw an "asshat" comment as well as a few geometrical inputs and outputs into another member's mother.

Greatest. Site. EVER>
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Old 08-27-2014, 10:24 PM   #8411
isis
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You had a few cracks at mine too. Remember when we were looking for leaks and other things to explain why mine was rich as boost increased and lean once it started decreasing? Scaling the x-axis of the MAF curve straightened it out--for years after that. All I could figure was that I changed the pressure more than most people do for such 'low' airflow that the flow profile near the sensor itself changed. Never figured out a real reason but nothing worked well until I sorted that out.

I'm not inferring that this has anything to do with the current conversation. Just an interesting anecdote on the same topic. I mean I changed intakes back and forth, stock and aftermarket and there was little change between them but none of them were right with the stock curve. Drove me crazy.
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Old Yesterday, 06:53 AM   #8412
explicithero
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But masterbatershek is always right and imperial data could never prove him wrong.
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Old Yesterday, 09:11 AM   #8413
BBoley24
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Originally Posted by Moore Performance View Post
Each "regular" decal worth 1 extra HP. Moore Performance decals = 5 to 10 extra horsepower. Just sayin.

We look forward to seeing you at next month's meet and we just had a customer in yesterday preparing to mod a black turbo Baja. Gotta love the turbo mini truck from Subaru!


Thanks MP!

I called you guys up for an estimate and was pretty confident that I would make the trek out your way. I made a few more phone calls and to be honest, it really came down to price.

I don't need that much done and for a few welds, Meineke in CS quoted me $150. They can't squeeze me in until Tuesday which sucks but I really need it done. I feel like Moore Performance has better things to do than weld a few pipes!

I do want to see your facility though. I am looking forward to seeing my Baja on the dyno at your shop really soon!
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Old Yesterday, 09:17 AM   #8414
MRF582
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But masterbatershek is always right and imperial data could never prove him wrong.
Do you know the difference between statistically significant and anecdotal?
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Old Yesterday, 01:30 PM   #8415
isis
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Default Official Pittsburgh Thread V7.14159

To be more accurate, I didn't just change the x axis. I changed the curve itself so it was below stock early on, and above stock later. Still no explanation but in case anyone is actually wasting brainpower on my story... The two curves are similar in shape but my tuned version had a more dramatic curve to it. Held low a bit longer and then climbed more rapidly after it crossed the stock curve right around 200 g/s

Once that was right, injectors and latency were a breeze and the tunes were immune to weather variables. Everything seemed to move around before that. So frustrating. I haven't done much with my V yet but I'm starting at the MAF for sure. There's a guy on the hptuners forum that developed histograms to average the short term corrections and dial in the MAF using the stock narrowband computer algorithms. It's pretty neat. All you do is turn off the long term learning and monitor the trims. A few iterations and you can see the new curve develop.

Any time you can get better dialed in so the ecu doesn't have to learn, you are going to have smoother operation and better efficiency. The trims are blocks and sections being applied in certain areas, not a smooth fancy control system re-tune. If anything, they probably make the timing and fuel transitions rougher, not smoother, which makes it more prone to detonation. The learning helps if you're just putting around but at WFO I would want absolutely 0 corrections being applied.
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Old Yesterday, 02:06 PM   #8416
garagedefeat
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Lots of trim talk. Lots. Someone wanna' take this one?
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Old Yesterday, 02:08 PM   #8417
explicithero
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Lots of trim talk. Lots. Someone wanna' take this one?
I am very nicely trimmed, one thing the jews were good for some would say.
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Old Yesterday, 02:14 PM   #8418
isis
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Funny. You don't look Druish.
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Old Yesterday, 04:04 PM   #8419
no694terry
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Ok MAF experts, this weekend when i max out my stock jecs maf, who wants to help my old phase one scale in my WRX maf with an emanage
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Old Yesterday, 04:11 PM   #8420
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Pretty sure it's clear none of us are experts. (Bet I'm the only one who openly admits it.)
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Old Yesterday, 04:24 PM   #8421
Blinden
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Pretty sure it's clear none of us are experts. (Bet I'm the only one who openly admits it.)
I'm not an expert!
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Old Yesterday, 09:33 PM   #8422
explicithero
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Default Official Pittsburgh Thread V7.14159

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Pretty sure it's clear none of us are experts. (Bet I'm the only one who openly admits it.)
If I were an expert I would be doing something a whole lot cooler, but I just tinker.
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