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Old 11-28-2012, 03:26 PM   #276
flyboy1100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper

Well the 5speeds are always 50/50 with a viscous coupler.

The CVT is like most other Subaru automatics, with electronically controlled clutches to direct power. Estimates vary from 90/10 to 60/40 front to rear power distribution in normal conditions.

My hunch is 90% front, because the system works so well there is no need to always send power to the rear wheels in non-slippery conditions, and obviously their goal with the new impreza was to mazimize the MPG's, which is why in Texas you can see 36mpg at 65mph on the highway. Impressive!
But I will die at those speeds!
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:01 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by flyboy1100 View Post
But I will die at those speeds!
He simultaneously tells us that his time is worth more than the expense for extra gas so driving faster is worth it to him, while he complains that when he drives the speeds everyone drives on the highway there (70mph+) he cannot come close to the EPA numbers.

So drive fast, live long, and prosper. But don't expect to achieve the EPA numbers, which do not reflect that type of driving, in that kind of driving.

All the time he saves offsets the extra cost of gas, he should be happy.

But happy, he is not.

Personally, I would not be in an AWD subaru if I could get out of my little country hamlet in the winter without it. I live in the opposite of wide open Texas, very hilly, winding, county roads, and when it snows they stay covered for quite a long time sometimes, particularly if it is a drawn out storm.

That also probably explains why I am now seeing a lot of the new Impreza's and Subaru's in general on the roads where I live.
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:39 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by WrxRcr View Post
I thought the new imprezas were on demand awd, meaning they run in 2wd mode until slip is detected. The article i read stated subaru did this to improve fuel economy.
Not quite. All wheels will be engaged all the time, however the center differential will constantly be varying the amount of lockup to the center differential according to data from numerous sensors in the car. So realistically the engine output to the wheels will be changing quite often according to the prevailing circumstances. Under "theoretically optimal" grip conditions and constant velocity, the car might be programmed to route 90% of output to the front wheels (for fuel econ reasons), but this will only persist until something changes such as you give it more gas, you give it less gas, you turn the steering wheel, a wheel slips, the transmission changes ratios, etc. Since the act of driving involves these variables changing constantly, likewise the center diff behavior will change constantly.

And like zeeper said, the manual employs a viscous coupling unit instead of the active system in the 2 pedal models.
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:50 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by saabarupp View Post
Not quite. All wheels will be engaged all the time, however the center differential will constantly be varying the amount of lockup to the center differential according to data from numerous sensors in the car. So realistically the engine output to the wheels will be changing quite often according to the prevailing circumstances. Under "theoretically optimal" grip conditions and constant velocity, the car might be programmed to route 90% of output to the front wheels (for fuel econ reasons), but this will only persist until something changes such as you give it more gas, you give it less gas, you turn the steering wheel, a wheel slips, the transmission changes ratios, etc. Since the act of driving involves these variables changing constantly, likewise the center diff behavior will change constantly.

And like zeeper said, the manual employs a viscous coupling unit instead of the active system in the 2 pedal models.
whoa whoa whoa, let's keep on topic here! this does nothing to prove how subaru has cheated on the EPA tests and why my older, lighter, fwd car with less hp gets better mpg

Last edited by flyboy1100; 11-28-2012 at 05:58 PM.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:31 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by flyboy1100 View Post
wow, just wow. you are an expert at takings things completely out of context and not reading everything.
LOL. Sorry, but that *is* the context of the EPA mpg ratings. You are the one with the blinders on.

Here's one for you, since I'm the one that's been doing all the research for you (that's been backfiring on you).

Take those cars you listed and go to your fuelly.com, then list the actual mpg's compared to the EPA ratings.



Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy1100 View Post
whoa whoa whoa, let's keep on topic here! this does nothing to prove how subaru has cheated on the EPA tests and why my older, lighter, fwd car with less hp gets better mpg
P.S. Man, you are obtuse:

Chevy Equinox, Auto, 2.4 liter.
AWD:20/29/23
2WD:22/32/26.

I guess you can't handle higher(not) logic flow.

Last edited by stevehnm; 11-28-2012 at 09:37 PM.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:58 PM   #281
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LOL. Sorry, but that *is* the context of the EPA mpg ratings. You are the one with the blinders on.
how am i out of context? i am posting the entire context? do you understand what this means?


Quote:


P.S. Man, you are obtuse:

Chevy Equinox, Auto, 2.4 liter.
AWD:20/29/23
2WD:22/32/26.

I guess you can't handle higher(not) logic flow.
wow look you found a FWD car with awd attributes. sorry but that is pretty much FWD most of the time which is why the mpg isn't much different

what is your question again because I think even you don't know
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:30 PM   #282
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how am i out of context? i am posting the entire context? do you understand what this means?
The fact you are "posting the entire context" doesn't mean you understand it. The EPA testing is supposed to be for comparison between cars, and with the Impreza it's skewed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy1100 View Post
wow look you found a FWD car with awd attributes. sorry but that is pretty much FWD most of the time which is why the mpg isn't much different

what is your question again because I think even you don't know
My point is that you somehow think the EPA test results don't consider the additional weight and friction of an AWD drivetrain vs. a 2WD drivetrain when computing mpg.

See, you still don't understand.
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:11 PM   #283
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Stevehm,

From your postings on this forum and another thread.

"The first number below after the brand and model is the Consumer Report combined mpg. The second is the EPA combined mpg. The third is the ratio (go to Wikipedia to look that word up) of the two. You said "the majority of vehicles on the road do not (beat the EPA estimate)". As anyone with any sense whatsoever can see, the only one here that "does not beat the EPA estimate" as you say is the Impreza. The rest, that you yourself chose for comparison, *do*, in a real world independent test, beat the EPA estimate."

Brand___________CR_____EPA___CR/EPA
Mazda 3_________34_____29_____1.17
Ford Focus_______39_____37_____1.05
Chevy Cruze______40_____39_____1.03
Toyota Corolla____39_____35_____1.11
Honda Civic HF____49_____39_____1.26
Mazda 2_________40_____35_____1.14
Honda Fit________39_____35_____1.11
Subaru Impreza___35_____36_____0.97




You try and state statistical crap and ratios with numbers and a testing methodology that isn't even stated. How about correct numbers?

Your statement: "The second is the EPA combined mpg."

Zero of your stated combined numbers are correct!

Mazada 3 is rated at 40mpg highway and 33 combined for the skyactive.

How many tanks of gas were used to come up with the numbers?
Same driver? Same traffic conditions? same weather? Did they double check the tire pressures? Was the tank filled properly? Did they over fill after the test to judge how much gas was used? Did all the cars start with a warm engine and warm fluids? (transmission and differentials)

Drive the car for a couple months. Then report the mpgs. Not a couple days and 1 or 2 tanks of gas.

Go over to edmunds and look at the Ford Focus pages. None too happy with their mpgs.

Another one of your posts has:

"If you have a cvt and are on cruise control, when you start to climb a hill you frequently see the needle peg to the negative (depending on current reference - the digital gauge in the center of the console) as it continuously downshifts - climbing at freeway speeds above 5000 rpm (not at all uncommon) you are under 10 mpg."

I really must be doing something wrong. I'd argue the 5000rpms might even be impossible, while you say it happens often! My Impreza with the CVT has never seen 5000+ rpms with or without cruise. It also has never seen less than 31mpg in over 13,000 miles.
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:47 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by jd_24 View Post
Zero of your stated combined numbers are correct!
They are taken from the Consumer Reports website - e.g. the Mazda was not the Skyactiv. They are the EPA ratings of the vehicles they tested:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...e#post38505597


Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_24 View Post
Another one of your posts has:

"If you have a cvt and are on cruise control, when you start to climb a hill you frequently see the needle peg to the negative (depending on current reference - the digital gauge in the center of the console) as it continuously downshifts - climbing at freeway speeds above 5000 rpm (not at all uncommon) you are under 10 mpg."

I really must be doing something wrong. I'd argue the 5000rpms might even be impossible, while you say it happens often! My Impreza with the CVT has never seen 5000+ rpms with or without cruise. It also has never seen less than 31mpg in over 13,000 miles.
Do they even *have* hills in Minnesota? J/K

I guarantee you that if you find a hill long enough and/or steep enough and are on cruise control at highway speeds, the cvt will rev *way* up and suck a lot of gas to maintain speed as it floors the throttle - which is, after all, what cruise control does.

P.S. I have over 7,500 miles on it now, and while the gas mileage did improve a couple of mpg's, I am not talking about my gas mileage (which still sucks compared to other 36 mpg highway cars). I am talking about an independent laboratory's test results compared to the numbers that Subaru provided to the EPA.

I guess I could quit complaining and then my resale value would go up, but that would hardly be ethical, would it?

Last edited by stevehnm; 12-01-2012 at 08:45 PM.
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:32 PM   #285
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stevhnm=driver error.

All the people who are driving the car and getting good MPG's must be doing something wrong? Yeah, that's the ticket...

http://www.mpgomatic.com/2012/07/19/...-sport-review/
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:18 PM   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper
stevhnm=driver error.

All the people who are driving the car and getting good MPG's must be doing something wrong? Yeah, that's the ticket...

http://www.mpgomatic.com/2012/07/19/...-sport-review/
This is invalid because it defeats his argument
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Old 12-01-2012, 08:44 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by flyboy1100 View Post
This is invalid because it defeats his argument


Let me make it more simple so you will hopefully understand it. When I first posted here I was indeed talking about my mileage. However, (thanks in part to your referencing Consumer Reports) I discovered it was not a problem with my particular car, but with the cvt itself which you don't even have, so my results are now merely anecdotal data (look that up too). You don't even have anecdotal data since you have a 5 speed.

The real question is this: Why are the numbers Subaru gives to the EPA so much higher than the independent tests done by Consumer Reports etc., compared to - now pay attention - other cars with numbers reported to the
EPA vs. the Consumer Reports tests? That has nothing to do with my driving.

Capisce? I think even a cretin can understand that, but I suspect I will have to explain it even more simply to you and Zeeper.
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Old 12-01-2012, 09:41 PM   #288
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2012 Impreza Sport Premium (5 Dr

Avg MPG is about 27 city 31 hey. Def. not what I was told when I bought the car.
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:31 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by slappyspud View Post
2012 Impreza Sport Premium (5 Dr

Avg MPG is about 27 city 31 hey. Def. not what I was told when I bought the car.
That is so extremely close to the advertised mpg that I'd say your driving style is what's causing the slight difference on highway mpg.
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:52 AM   #290
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That is so extremely close to the advertised mpg that I'd say your driving style is what's causing the slight difference on highway mpg.
That would depend on whether he has the 5 sp (true) or the cvt (not).

Have you not been following the EPA vs. Consumer Reports discussion?
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:54 AM   #291
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The real question is this: Why are the numbers Subaru gives to the EPA so much higher than the independent tests done by Consumer Reports etc., compared to - now pay attention - other cars with numbers reported to the*EPA vs. the Consumer Reports tests? That has nothing to do with my driving.
Because consumer reports tests in a real world environment, using gas you can actually buy, and driving how people normally drive. It isn't rocket science
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:08 AM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy1100 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
The real question is this: Why are the numbers Subaru gives to the EPA so much higher than the independent tests done by Consumer Reports etc., compared to - now pay attention - other cars with numbers reported to the
EPA vs. the Consumer Reports tests? That has nothing to do with my driving.

Capisce? I think even a cretin can understand that, but I suspect I will have to explain it even more simply to you and Zeeper.
Because consumer reports tests in a real world environment, using gas you can actually buy, and driving how people normally drive. It isn't rocket science
Was the sentence too long for you?
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:34 AM   #293
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Edmunds has gotten well below the EPA mileage too.

Quote:
I covered 346 mostly highway miles on one tank. I wasn't ginger with the pedal and I made the Impreza beg on daily uphill on-ramp charges (not a pleasant sound). The fill-up took 12.825 gallons. By our calculations, that's 27 mpg combined. The on-board computer optimistically measured 28.5. Perhaps if I'd hyper-miled through the remaining 60 miles indicated on the distance-to-empty meter, I could've got it to 27.5, maybe 28.

That's still below the EPA rating of 30 mpg combined. Our lifetime average with the car is 26 mpg. A little disappointing that the Impreza is 3 or 4 mpg off the pace, but perhaps not a dealbreaker. What do you think? Would you be burned if you'd bought the Impreza and it wasn't delivering the EPA estimate?
http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtest...-the-pace.html
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Old 12-02-2012, 12:28 PM   #294
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Edmunds has gotten well below the EPA mileage too.



http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtest...-the-pace.html
Yes, and when you flog a rental car it returns suspiciously low MPG's as well. How would that surprise anyone?

I bet if you flog a Tesla, the battery charge does not last that long.

I guess it does point out that the type of driving makes a big difference in MPG's, but doesn't everyone know that already?
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Old 12-02-2012, 04:09 PM   #295
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Yes, and when you flog a rental car it returns suspiciously low MPG's as well. How would that surprise anyone?

I bet if you flog a Tesla, the battery charge does not last that long.

I guess it does point out that the type of driving makes a big difference in MPG's, but doesn't everyone know that already?
Most of their cars end up close to the EPA combined. The Impreza is easily one of the farthest off. Note that the Impreza's best is barely above the EPA combined.

http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtest...ober-2012.html
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:15 AM   #296
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Most of their cars end up close to the EPA combined. The Impreza is easily one of the farthest off. Note that the Impreza's best is barely above the EPA combined.

http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtest...ober-2012.html

Lets see the Combined MPG EPA rating for a Prius C is 50. Edmunds is getting 44.9.

Edmunds even admits to driving the Impreza rather agressively.

The ford Focus is rated at 26MPG combined, yet Edmunds only gets 20.5mpg, with a worst of 13!
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:26 AM   #297
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Just a guess on my part, but when somebody gets in an Impreza they drive it a bit more like a WRX or STI even though this new Impreza isn't one and doesn't pretend to be one. On the other hand somebody driving a Prius or other 40+mpg car claiming awsome MPG, will drive it trying to get those numbers and never really drive it agressively. Hence your MPG may vary.

I just got back from a trip from Minneapolis to Appleton WI and back. 5 people, plus luggage for a weekend. 32mpg on the way there plus the around town, and what looks to be 34+mpg on the way home. Current tank isn't yet half empty, 220+ miles and the display is showing 36.6mpg. Cruise control the majority of the time going with the flow of traffic.

Oh crap 34mpg isn't the rated 36 highway mpg! Given, wind, extra weight and winter gas with 10% ethanol, it will do.
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:46 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by jd_24 View Post
Just a guess on my part, but when somebody gets in an Impreza they drive it a bit more like a WRX or STI even though this new Impreza isn't one and doesn't pretend to be one. On the other hand somebody driving a Prius or other 40+mpg car claiming awsome MPG, will drive it trying to get those numbers and never really drive it agressively. Hence your MPG may vary.

I just got back from a trip from Minneapolis to Appleton WI and back. 5 people, plus luggage for a weekend. 32mpg on the way there plus the around town, and what looks to be 34+mpg on the way home. Current tank isn't yet half empty, 220+ miles and the display is showing 36.6mpg. Cruise control the majority of the time going with the flow of traffic.

Oh crap 34mpg isn't the rated 36 highway mpg! Given, wind, extra weight and winter gas with 10% ethanol, it will do.
not possible to achieve those numbers, sorry














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Old 12-03-2012, 01:05 PM   #299
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I know I can get both numbers, low and high MPG, depending upon how I drive it.

Driving somewhat conservatively (not hypermiling, but not revving it up) yields the EPA numbers, and flogging it drops those numbers down to the level that others are complaining about.

The difference is I don't complain when I drive the car outside of its MPG sweet spot, because I expect lower MPG's when I rev it up or drive faster than 70mph on the highway.

If you search the other MPG forum you find that those getting the lowest City MPG's drive short distance commutes starting with a cold engine (each direction), or are drivers who think the car is underpowered so they floor it to get power. The EPA City test does not reflect either behavior, so the City number on the sticker is not going to reflect this behavior, either.

And from this forum we've learned that the Impreza won't return the EPA numbers if you drive it 70-85mph on the highway (I already knew this, but it seems like an unwelcome revelation to stevehnm). Again the EPA HWY testing is not testing for this scenario, so the HWY number on the car does not reflect this type of driving.

For every driver with low MPG's, there are more drivers who are hitting the EPA numbers (look at Fuelly). That tells you the role of the driver in achieving those numbers.

Last edited by Zeeper; 12-03-2012 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:18 PM   #300
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I know I can get both numbers, low and high MPG, depending upon how I drive it.

Driving somewhat conservatively (not hypermiling, but not revving it up) yields the EPA numbers, and flogging it drops those numbers down to the level that others are complaining about.

The difference is I don't complain when I drive the car outside of its MPG sweet spot, because I expect lower MPG's when I rev it up or drive faster than 70mph on the highway.
Exactly. I knowingly take the hit for driving 75+ because like some others occasionally my time is worth more to me than the money I would save. But other times it isn't and I enjoy the drive so I slow down or take a back route
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