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Old 02-03-2006, 01:02 AM   #1
Schimke
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Default 2005 STi immobilizer question/ Engine in a non-Subaru chassis

Hey guys, What parts are necessary in order to make the 2005 STi immobilizer system work properly?

I want to swap a STi motor into a non- Subaru chassis and have the opportunity to purchase a very low mileage 2005 USDM engine complete with everything (wiring, ecu, ignition switch etc.), but I need to know what (if any) additional components make the immobilizer system work. Thanks!

Chris
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Old 02-03-2006, 01:31 AM   #2
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nope, do not do it. Basically can't do it. You need access to the whole car to get all the components, then you need the codes for the keys too, likely will need assistance from a dealership which may be hard to do.

Ben
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Old 02-03-2006, 11:12 AM   #3
Schimke
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OK, so let's say I DO have access to the whole car, what then? Can a 2004 ECU be used? Will the 2004 ECU work with the 2005 wiring harness?

Don't take this the wrong way. I'm not trying to make more work for myself. In fact, I'm actually trying to talk myself out of using the 2005 w/immobilizer.
I'm trying to learn as much as possible about this stuff. Somebody asked me yesterday "Why can't you just use all of the components that make the immobilizer work?". I didn't have an answer other than "I'm not sure".

That's why I'm asking these questions. Thank you for being patient with me while I'm trying to learn about all of this.

Chris
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Old 02-03-2006, 03:50 PM   #4
Schimke
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OK, so called PDX and talked to Jahred. He was very helpfull and friendly. He informed me that the ignition switch, key, gauge cluster and the matched ECU are all needed from the donor car in order to make this work. He also informed me that a 2004 ECU should work with the 2005 wiring harness.

Thank you Jahred

Anyone else have anymore input?
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Old 02-05-2006, 07:05 PM   #5
PHATsuby
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you also need the integrated body unit from the car too, basically the ecu for the security system.

Ben
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Old 02-05-2006, 08:16 PM   #6
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If you're going to use a 2004 ECU, then why worry about the immobilizer system? The 2004's didn't have it. Only 2005 and newer in the US.
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Old 02-07-2006, 10:51 AM   #7
Schimke
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Like I said earlier, I'm trying to learn more about all of this. I'm fairly new to Subarus and I want to weigh all of my options before jump in.

Not that I don't trust PDX, but I have learned from past experiences that just because one person says something will work does not make it so.

All I'm asking for is some more input on this entire subject of making a 2005 immobilized system run properly either with or without the immobilizer. I'm hoping to gain some knowledge on the subject from people who have actually had experience with it. Any help would be appreciated.
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Old 02-08-2006, 04:35 AM   #8
PHATsuby
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not to confuse you but I also work for PDX, lol.

You cannot get an immobilizer ECU to work in a non immobilizer equipped car by normal means.

here is an example: another member on this board Slack is doing a H6 conversion into his impreza. his H6 is an EZ30R which is in the 05 model USDM cars with immobilizer. He wanted to use OEM components, I had the pdf manuals and had researched about the immobilizer and told him it would not be possible to "get around" it. He did not believe me and then had to buy all the OEM components to get it to work.

Now, I am fairly certain, having all the components he should have been able to get it to work, but the next issue was getting a dealer to give him codes to program into his ecu, and he couldnt do that without a proper VIN. So, it is not impossible, but if you are starting from scratch you need a lot of money and a friend at a dealer to give you codes.

on a swap if you have all the components and the ecu(all of them being from the same car) it should work, as long as you can get keys for it, or get a dealer to reprogram new keys without the right VIN. Once again you need friends to do this.

The other option has already been stated, run an 04 ecu.

Another option that we have speculated but are unsure about is Cobb may have the ability to flash away the immobilizer function, which we were thinking about doing for our H6 projects until we realized it would be a bitch to do forced induction on the NA platform and it would be more appropriate to go stand alone and MAP based.

Again, trying to get Cobb to do this would require that you are friends or they are nice enough to attempt it for you.

So that is the experience i have had with it, no personal hands on wiring, just theoretical wiring and research. All methods require friends in high places Not really but you get what I mean. The most plausible option to have it function is having every component to swap out of the same car and the car itself(insurance buy back). Or using a 04 ecu, which may require changing some other components such as the key cylinder or disabling the integrated body unit(I havent looked into it more just a heads up).

hope that helps clarify some stuff. Jarrad may know of a more specific swap we have done or someone has done so that could trump all my knowledge but there it is FWIW.

Ben
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Old 02-08-2006, 09:17 AM   #9
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If your going to use the 04 ECU, there is no need to change the Intergrated body unit.
The 05 intergrated body unit is the emmobilizer unit too.
To use the 04 ECU in the 05 is a dirrect plug in,but you will need to move around some of the pin-outs on the 05 ECU harness. Fuel pump and a few other pin-outs were moved to prevent a thief from just plugging in a 04 ECU and driving away.
I have both 2004 and 2005 ECU pin-out charts.Send me a PM with your email address and I'll send them to you.
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Old 02-08-2006, 11:01 AM   #10
Schimke
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PHATsuby
not to confuse you but I also work for PDX, lol.
Hey, cool. Small world huh?

Thank you guys so much for taking the time to educate me on this. You have no idea how much I appreciate it.

I DO have access to the entire car so IF I decide to go with the immobilizer system, everything would be coming from the same vehicle including the keys.

I'm fairly convinced that even with having all of the necessary parts, going with the 2004 ECU would be a smarter choice. Since this is a conversion into a non-Subaru chassis, if any of the components ever failed or needed to be replaced for any reason, it sounds like I would have slim to no chance of actually being able to acquire the replacement parts and then I'm back to running a 2004 ECU.

Nitro Don, Thanks for that 2004 ECU information. I will definately take you up on your offer.

Thanks again guys.
Chris
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Old 03-06-2008, 10:25 PM   #11
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Very interesting
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Old 05-15-2009, 02:02 PM   #12
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Default Aem Ecu

I got the same engine and wiring harness and ecu out of a Canadian 05 sti. I would like to use this engine in my 68 beetle. Is it possible to get the engine to work with a AEM stand alone ecu that supports drive by wire systems?
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Old 05-15-2009, 05:40 PM   #13
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Sure but, you can also probably buy an 04 STI ECU for 1/4-1/3rd the price of the AEM.
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Old 05-16-2009, 06:45 AM   #14
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Will the 04 ecu support the drive by wire throttle? Or would that require the use of a wired throttle body? Who would be able to tailor the 05 harness so it would work in a simple bug?
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Old 05-16-2009, 08:10 AM   #15
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Yes, DBW. Why not you? Dunk did something like this where he stripped the factory harness down to just the parts he needed. In your case, you don't need DCCD, ABS, AC or any of that stuff.
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Old 05-21-2009, 04:47 AM   #16
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You are right. I need none of what you mentioned. Just want a running engine without any gimmicks. Can you make this engine run with no input whatsoever from all kinds of sensors? Traction control will not work etc. What about the AVCS, will that work with the 04 ecu? Where can a get a 04 ecu?
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Old 05-27-2009, 07:09 PM   #17
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There was a little misinformation in this thread. Having done quite a few of these swaps I wanted to clear a few things up for any future readers.

For the my05 the only parts that need to "match" are the ECU, the immobilizer box which is normally right near your knees and a chip from one of the keys. This set of items can be paired with any appropriate engine. The coil from the ignition doesn't necessarily have to even be from a Subaru but for best results snag one.

If you don't care about immobilizer keys you can zip tie a working key (or even the chip alone) to the coil and put it under the dash somewhere. This will let you start the car with whatever steering column and keyset you wish. This is a great thing when wanting to have door keys match the ignition and you don't want to deal with cutting new keys.

You don't need the gauge cluster or integrated body unit. IIRC only six wires need to be moved to convert an my05 harness to run from an my04 ECU. If you have a tuner nearby you could even use a Forester XT ECU with the only major difference being the gear determination thresholds having only five slots instead of six.
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Old 06-19-2009, 05:44 PM   #18
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While we are talking about non-Subaru chassis builds (as that's what I am working on). I am interested in getting a list of "what the motor must have to run" of parts that I need to acquire.

At present I have a fully stock 05 STI engine/full uncut harness/matched ecu keys and bits... I also have the fuel system but no fuel tank as I am planning on having one fab'ed to match the location and size of the install location, but want to use the stock fuel system.

The engine was simply unplugged from everything and pulled out as seen here:
ENGINE

I will also be using the STI pedal cluster for the servo-tronic throttle body, the stock Gauge cluster and am interested in adapting the AC sytem (what parts are included in this? face controls/condensor/blowers? has anyone done this?)

I am hoping to adapt the stock or similar radiator, the 'water' bottle that comes with it ect... but I am hoping that those that have done one or two of these swaps (ciper) would chime up with a “Standards Check list before install”…

Also I am wondering about using the stock ECU and what mods need to be done to the ECU to not look for things like the transmission (using non-suby), DCCD and things like that. I just need the ECU to run the engine/turbo only.

To be clear, I am not looking for ANY speculation. I am only interested in comments from those that have direct hands on having done it experience… I have spent toooooons of money on “So and so is running blah” – only to have blah not work at all. So Please if you have not done this or know beyond reasonable doubt please do not reply, we need less speculation and more fact in these forums.

Thanks in advance for anyone’s time.
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Old 07-07-2009, 04:27 PM   #19
ciper
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The ECU wants a 0v-5v pulsed signal for the speedo. It will get angry if you don't feed it a VSS signal. It will not be worth the trouble to try and get the DCCD working as it wants signals from the ABS computer. Better off running it unplugged, making your own locker switch or buying an aftermarket controller.

The only other thing I can think of that the ECU would miss would be in tank sensors (which you say you are retaining).
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Old 08-25-2009, 11:19 AM   #20
FunnyNYPD
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Default The speed sensor feed into the 05 or later ECU.

The speed sensor signal feed into the 05 or later ECU is not a big issue.
Please refer to the following link:
http://augroups.blogspot.com/search/...AN%20Simulator

The hard part is get rid of the immobilizer chip.
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Old 08-26-2009, 04:36 PM   #21
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Thanks for the info guys. I am not trying to get DCCD running, actually I am using a porsche 5SPD trans so I am wondering about the ECU doing "Trans Checks" of any kind. I am still trying to educate myself about how this system will work when bolted up, so I will be researching that speed sensor solution.

I don't mind the immobilizer as I have a full matched setup (keys ignition imo box and ecu ) so that isn't really a concern. It's more like, are there any little bits that I need to make sure I have plugged into the factory harness (of which I have a complete front to back uncut version)? I am running stock pedal set, stock gauge cluster, stock ecu, stock motor, stock fuel (aftermarket tank with 05 sti tank parts installed and custom fuel lines), stock A/C (wanting to remove the power steering pump but keep AC pump... anyone know the best way and the right belts to use to do this?)... I think I will be running the stock water bottle and radiator but have yet to get these parts.

Might end up getting into (but fully modifying) stock STI HID headlights. I have the projector lenses and housings but not the HID parts. I have been looking for a set of auto-level headlights from an 05 that are busted lenses but functional housings... anyone have these laying around that they want to part with and the ballasts? The lenses can be totally destroyed as long as the lights function...

thanks again for any insights / information provided...
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Old 02-22-2010, 03:26 PM   #22
TheLordChesterfield
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I am currently in the process of an EJ255 swap into an '04 Forester that I blew the motor on. I have the motor and am about to get the necessary wires and ECU.

Will I have an issue with an alleged "05" EJ255 that should have had an immobilizer, if I use an '04 STI ECU that does not have immobilizer keys associated with it?

Here's the issue(s) with the engine:

First, the person who sold it to me claimed it was an '05. Now, from every bit of information I've read, the EJ255 first came in '06. When I asked the seller about further details, he said that it was a "B2B" job and he didn't get the full info on the vehicle it came out of. Sketchy to say the least, but I got the engine and it looks clean.
It's VIN# ej255be8jb-051 in case the picture doesn't work/isn't clear. (Sorry, kinda off topic).
Does anyone know how to verify the year of production based on this number?

Regardless, am I going to have an issue using a year-model engine that had an immobilizer with an '04, pre-immobilizer ECU/ wires?

Thanks, pictures to come....

Last edited by TheLordChesterfield; 03-19-2010 at 07:43 PM.
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:41 PM   #23
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lordchesterfield.
any traction on this project?
we might be in similar positions and I wanted to see what solutions to your problem you've come up with.

i picked up a matching set of ecu, keys and imob. box as seen here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/3931035...7619575747670/

just wondering what your up to...
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Old 04-02-2010, 12:16 AM   #24
Team Scream
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Just remember that the ECU is exactly that an "Engine Control Unit".
The engine will not know what ECU you have it plugged into, with the exception of the AVCS solenoids (if any).
So aside from making sure you have proper AVCS control, which is dependent on the ECU and what map is on that ECU, the car (engine) should start and run fine.
The immobilizer array (ign key, ecu, and immobilizer module) will simply not let the engine start if any one of those things is missing or bad or whatever right?
SO, if you run a pre-05 ECU, you should be able to fire that thing right up.

If you are committed to using an Immobilizer set up, I have a complete array from an 05 STI for sale in the for sale forums.
It consists of an ECU, Immobilizer module, Ign switch and matching key all from the same car I dismantled last year.

PM me if you need/want it.
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Old 04-02-2010, 07:17 PM   #25
stivlad
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Does anyone know which wires need to be moved to make a 05 sti harness work with a 04 ecu? I switched 6 wires on my 05 sti and the 04 ecu is not working. Thanks.
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