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Old 03-08-2012, 01:38 AM   #1
JonzFaSTi
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Default Stock 2011 STi misfire CEL

Update: You can see comp/leakdown test results on post #33

Another Update post 36


I have had my car for almost 14 months and it has just over 8700 miles on it.

I have had this cell pop up 4 times now. P0304 and most recently P0304 and P0303

#1 I had about 1800 miles on the car and I took it to the dealer and they replaced my spark plugs.

#2 the CEL came on then shortly went away so I never took it to the dealer.

#3 I had about 7500 miles and the dealer replaced my injectors. Soon after I was getting a fuel starvation which I posted here

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2313840

#4 was yesterday and I had just under 8700 miles on the car.

Now every time (besides #3) I was driving the same way when this light comes on.

I am getting onto the freeway from a 270 degree onramp and as I exit the CEL will emerge. I am pushing the car but do not feel I am abusing it (besides the tires). I go into the corner in 3rd gear come out and shift into 4th before redline (6200 rpms or so). This is the only time I get the fuel starvation as well but that only happens when I have less than 1/4 tank of fuel.

It is currently at the dealer and I am waiting for an update within the next day or so. They said they were going to look into this in more depth since it is the 3rd time I have had to bring it in.

The 3rd time this happened I was on my way to have my DP installed and get the car tuned. I decided to hold off on that since I didn't want any hassle about my warranty. I rescheduled these appointments last week for later in the month but debating now if I should hold off again.

I wanted to bring this up to see if a tune would resolve this issue. I understand how bad the factory tune is and wanted to verify if this is one of the results from that tune.

I have been really eager to get my DP installed along with my tune and wanted to get some of your opinions on what I should do.

I appreciate your input (tuners especially)
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Last edited by JonzFaSTi; 03-16-2013 at 02:47 AM.
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Old 03-08-2012, 02:15 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonzFaSTi
I have had my car for almost 14 months and it has just over 8700 miles on it.

I have had this cell pop up 4 times now. P0304 and most recently P0304 and P0303

#1 I had about 1800 miles on the car and I took it to the dealer and they replaced my spark plugs.

#2 the CEL came on then shortly went away so I never took it to the dealer.

#3 I had about 7500 miles and the dealer replaced my injectors. Soon after I was getting a fuel starvation which I posted here

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2313840

#4 was yesterday and I had just under 8700 miles on the car.

Now every time (besides #3) I was driving the same way when this light comes on.

I am getting onto the freeway from a 270 degree onramp and as I exit the CEL will emerge. I am pushing the car but do not feel I am abusing it (besides the tires). I go into the corner in 3rd gear come out and shift into 4th before redline (6200 rpms or so). This is the only time I get the fuel starvation as well but that only happens when I have less than 1/4 tank of fuel.

It is currently at the dealer and I am waiting for an update within the next day or so. They said they were going to look into this in more depth since it is the 3rd time I have had to bring it in.

The 3rd time this happened I was on my way to have my DP installed and get the car tuned. I decided to hold off on that since I didn't want any hassle about my warranty. I rescheduled these appointments last week for later in the month but debating now if I should hold off again.

I wanted to bring this up to see if a tune would resolve this issue. I understand how bad the factory tune is and wanted to verify if this is one of the results from that tune.

I have been really eager to get my DP installed along with my tune and wanted to get some of your opinions on what I should do.

I appreciate your input (tuners especially)
A tune will not fix your misfire. There are a few things that can cause a miss. Bad/improperly gapped plugs, bad injector, bad coil pack, low compression (this is my vote), rich or lean misfire, or spark blowout (not likely on a stock car with stock boost levels).

I hate to say it man but it sounds like you are a #4 ringland victim. Pushing the car on the craptastic stock tune that is far too lean until ~4200 rpm (well into boost which is a no no with FI vehicles) causing detonation, and high egts the cause the piston rings to butt together from expansion, and cracking the ringland. That or the piston expanded to the point of less than adequate clearance and the reciprocating forces of the piston moving up and down in the bore causing the ringland to crack.

You probably saved yourself a lot of hassle and money by postponing your tune knowing you have issues. Not to mention if you did get tuned and this happened due to poor tuning, your warranty would be in jeopardy (not to mention reverting back to stock to have warranty repairs done is committing fraud).

Good luck sir. If they replace your short block, be sure to get that downpipe on and go get yourself a good tune. It will ensure you a healthy motor (assuming you maintain it well) for years to come!
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Old 03-08-2012, 02:34 AM   #3
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So basically you are saying a tune would have prevented this problem but the damage is already done?

Is there anything I can do in order for them to replace the shortblock?

This is the 3rd time I have taken it to the dealer for this situation and I just want it to get resolved and then I can feel comfortable doing my upgrades.

This is my 4th Subaru in the last 7 years and I plan to have this one for a long time to come. I have had my issues from my past models and want to make sure I do everything on this car correct so it does last for years to come.
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:09 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonzFaSTi
So basically you are saying a tune would have prevented this problem but the damage is already done?

Is there anything I can do in order for them to replace the shortblock?

This is the 3rd time I have taken it to the dealer for this situation and I just want it to get resolved and then I can feel comfortable doing my upgrades.

This is my 4th Subaru in the last 7 years and I plan to have this one for a long time to come. I have had my issues from my past models and want to make sure I do everything on this car correct so it does last for years to come.
You hit the nail on the head buddy. When I get my 12sti I'm taking it right to stage one before I leave the lot. I'm not taking the chance of blowing a ringland.

It has warranty, so let them handle it. You said they are digging deeper this time, so to me that means Compression and leakdown tests to confirm. If the car appears stock and has a stock tune, then they have no choice but to honor the warranty and give you a new shortblock. Otherwise if they don't fix it this time its a lemon IMO, and you can sue them if they don't either fix it right or lemon the car and get you into another new one.

Either way whatever happens, keep us updated, and when you get one or the other, make sure you get a good tune on it STAT.
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:34 AM   #5
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Your cas isn't going to last long.... i really don't care what happens to your car becuase your VIEW of what you want .. and reality are 2 separate issues.



take it back to the dealer OR.... tune it ... OR.. stop complaining.
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:51 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by 2Fast4U1DAY View Post
You hit the nail on the head buddy. When I get my 12sti I'm taking it right to stage one before I leave the lot. I'm not taking the chance of blowing a ringland.

It has warranty, so let them handle it. You said they are digging deeper this time, so to me that means Compression and leakdown tests to confirm. If the car appears stock and has a stock tune, then they have no choice but to honor the warranty and give you a new shortblock. Otherwise if they don't fix it this time its a lemon IMO, and you can sue them if they don't either fix it right or lemon the car and get you into another new one.

Either way whatever happens, keep us updated, and when you get one or the other, make sure you get a good tune on it STAT.
I dont think anything is broken yet and after reading into the failed piston ring lands a little more tonight it looks like its the pistons thats the problem regardless of having a good tune.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHRDAN View Post
Your cas isn't going to last long.... i really don't care what happens to your car becuase your VIEW of what you want .. and reality are 2 separate issues.



take it back to the dealer OR.... tune it ... OR.. stop complaining.
Good thing I dont have a cas.

I dont understand how I am complaining here but thanks for your informative response.

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Old 03-08-2012, 04:07 AM   #7
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Subaru really needs to adress this problem...
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:03 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonzFaSTi

I dont think anything is broken yet and after reading into the failed piston ring lands a little more tonight it looks like its the pistons thats the problem regardless of have a good tune.

Good thing I dont have a cas.

I dont understand how I am complaining here but thanks for your informative response.
For arguments sake, it is a combination of tune and crappy pistons with rings that don't have enough end gap for the amount of heat the lean condition produces. 14afr's in boost until 4k rpm is unacceptable. Too much heat + boost pressure = detonation.

However, a good tune will triple its life span. When Subaru replaced my longblack and turbo at 31k (don't ask) I didn't waste any time. I was stage one on my new AP before the tech had a chance to walk inside to get his next RO. I'm now at 128k (97k on the new long block and turbo). Compression check last week netted me 150,148,150,143. When I did my compression check before the new engine, it was 135,125,125,125 and that was on a warm engine, and at 20k mi.

This has also been covered several times on this forum and even the protuners that float around here have said that the tune will make or brake your engine. The stock tune just blows.

As for what you are speaking of in the original post, I would still put my money on #4 ringland if I were a bettin man. If they changed the plugs and injectors, and swapped coils around, the only other possibility is A low compression miss.
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:14 AM   #9
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Im betting your motor FAILED.. Your one of the unlucky few. But it should be under warranty still so dont worry get a new motor out of it
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Old 03-08-2012, 09:44 AM   #10
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I vote try to get the motor replaced. Make sure you get a Cobb AP and change the map once you get it back. At first i was worried that going stage 1+sf a week after i got it was bad but i guess it was the best decision i made after i read all these stories about the tune.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:48 PM   #11
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a light weight crank pulley or flywheel can through this code. i have seen it happen alot and a tune can fix that
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehiddenidentity01
a light weight crank pulley or flywheel can through this code. i have seen it happen alot and a tune can fix that
Pulley shouldn't trigger a misfire. You are only dropping a couple of pounds at most. It's not like a lightweight flywheel where you are dropping 10 lbs.
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Old 03-12-2012, 08:39 PM   #13
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The dealer is telling me they contacted SOA and they want to reflash my car with an updated map that is brand new (ony the SOA reps have access to it right now, states the service advisor)

Honestly I dont think my ring land is broken since i wasnt burning any oil or had any other issues with the car and how it was driving. So I would assume my CEL has to do with the bad tune and if I keep running it like this then I probably will break my ring land.

I will drive it around all week and see how it goes and decide if I should wait to get tuned and hold off until something actually breaks and have the dealer fix it then. I just dont think anything has broken yet and if I get tuned it should prolong my engine for more miles, for now anyways. Then just rebuild if I need to down the road.
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Old 03-12-2012, 10:24 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonzFaSTi
The dealer is telling me they contacted SOA and they want to reflash my car with an updated map that is brand new (ony the SOA reps have access to it right now, states the service advisor)

Honestly I dont think my ring land is broken since i wasnt burning any oil or had any other issues with the car and how it was driving. So I would assume my CEL has to do with the bad tune and if I keep running it like this then I probably will break my ring land.

I will drive it around all week and see how it goes and decide if I should wait to get tuned and hold off until something actually breaks and have the dealer fix it then. I just dont think anything has broken yet and if I get tuned it should prolong my engine for more miles, for now anyways. Then just rebuild if I need to down the road.
If it doesn't fix it you need to start taking legal action. Three times for the same problem, no solution, and they are just wildly guessing at this point.

Incompetence at its best....

A compression test and a leakdown test should have been performed a long time ago. Don't you see that they are attempting to screw you (and doing a very good job at it)?

Honestly, if you let them continue blindly throwing parts and tunes at the car, then I have no sympathy for you. You deserve whatever happens at this point.
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Old 03-12-2012, 11:45 PM   #15
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^What he said after reading through this thread.

Oh and just noticed you live in Orange County...Which dealer are you dealing with?
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Old 03-13-2012, 01:46 AM   #16
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If it doesn't fix it you need to start taking legal action. Three times for the same problem, no solution, and they are just wildly guessing at this point.

Incompetence at its best....

A compression test and a leakdown test should have been performed a long time ago. Don't you see that they are attempting to screw you (and doing a very good job at it)?

Honestly, if you let them continue blindly throwing parts and tunes at the car, then I have no sympathy for you. You deserve whatever happens at this point.
Really? "attempting to screw me" and how would they be doing a good job?

Obviously you are not capable of looking at a situation from more than one perspective.

Now if the factory tune is the issue here what is the dealership to do with something that isnt broken and just throwing up red flags?

1st attempt - they switch out the spark plugs
5k miles later they do the injectors

Are these not the first two things you would try to do before rebuilding your short block to see if this was the issue.

Now the 3rd attempt we are trying to dig deeper to find a solution which has resulted in a reflash.

From a dealership point why wouldnt they keep throwing parts at it until the problem is fixed. Until there is something actually broken how am I going to make them replace my short block.

I havent spent any money trying to get this fixed I dont see how they are attempting to "screw me"

I asked for a compression test but he stated I would have to pay for it unless there was something wrong. Now I didnt want to risk spending $200+ for this to find out nothing is broken, YET. (Maybe you can say this is them trying to screw me - call it what you will)

If this is the case - since I dont think anything is broken YET - I will let them do what they feel is nessecary, drive the same I have always been and If you're right then I should start loosing oil and something should be going wrong very soon - when that happens I will take it back and have them eventually give me a new short block and I will get it tuned shortly after.

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Old 03-13-2012, 02:22 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonzFaSTi

Really? "attempting to screw me" and how would they be doing a good job?

Obviously you are not capable of looking at a situation from more than one perspective.

Now if the factory tune is the issue here what is the dealership to do with something that isnt broken and just throwing up red flags?

1st attempt - they switch out the spark plugs
5k miles later they do the injectors

Are these not the first two things you would try to do before rebuilding your short block to see if this was the issue.

Now the 3rd attempt we are trying to dig deeper to find a solution which has resulted in a reflash.

From a dealership point why wouldnt they keep throwing parts at it until the problem is fixed. Until there is something actually broken how am I going to make them replace my short block.

I havent spent any money trying to get this fixed I dont see how they are attempting to "screw me"

I asked for a compression test but he stated I would have to pay for it unless there was something wrong. Now I didnt want to risk spending $200+ for this to find out nothing is broken, YET. (Maybe you can say this is them trying to screw me - call it what you will)

If this is the case - since I dont think anything is broken YET - I will let them do what they feel is nessecary, drive the same I have always been and If you're right then I should start loosing oil and something should be going wrong very soon - when that happens I will take it back and have them eventually give me a new short block and I will get it tuned shortly after.
They are doing a good job of avoiding the REAL problem here, which in turn is effectively screwing you over.

If it was the tune causing the misfire (which I highly doubt) it would be very easily repeatable, and would happen ALL THE TIME.

I would have done plugs, and tested the injector balance. Then COMPRESSION AND LEAKDOWN TESTS.

A reflash is not digging deeper. They are playing guess and check with your car, because they are afraid of the inevitable. They can't *&%$#?& prove its NOT the problem WITHOUT DOING COMPRESSION AND LEAKDOWN TESTS TO VERIFY.

Something IS WRONG, so what's the excuse for them not doing the test? There isnt an excuse good enough to NOT DO THEIR JOBS.

No one knows if it is or isn't broken, UNTIL THE TESTS ARE PERFORMED, which they haven't done yet.

They are giving you the run around and you are eating their bs. So OF COURSE They are going to just throw parts at your car in hopes of fixing it.

If the tune fixes it great I will be the first to admit I was wrong, but they skipped a step in the diagnostic process, and its quite obvious that they are avoiding the real problem.

I wouldn't even keep the car if the engine failed after three failed attempts at fixing the problem. I'd get a my attorney on SOA's ass, and have them working on getting me out of the Lemon they sold me, and into a car that doesn't have problems.

But you have made it clearly obvious that you don't care about your car enough to fight with SOA or anyone else enough to get the right tests performed to prove either a busted ringland, or not a busted ringland, so if you aren't going to take advice, then don't ask for it....
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Old 03-13-2012, 04:28 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by 2Fast4U1DAY View Post
But you have made it clearly obvious that you don't care about your car enough to fight with SOA or anyone else enough to get the right tests performed to prove either a busted ringland, or not a busted ringland, so if you aren't going to take advice, then don't ask for it....
How have I made it clear I don't care?

My car is at the dealer - I have waited for them to do their diagnosis. In the meantime I have come here for info which I am grateful for. I have found a possible reason for what is going on with my car and what needs to be done in order to correct it. All of which I would not of known if I hadn't come here to ask.

I have taken your advice into consideration and if I need to I have no problem fighting with SOA - This wouldn't be the first time.

My car has performed spot on (from a STi Factory standpoint) for nearly every mile I have had it (Purchased car right off the truck with 6 miles on it). I also now understand the numerous problems a lot of other owners have had with these motors. I'm not saying the tune (from SOA) is going to fix this problem and when it doesn't then I might have to go your route. Since there is a problem, then I should be getting another CEL fairly soon. They didnt have an issue doing the tests but if they came back normal he told me I would have to pay for the test which I am not in the position to risk right now. If this doesnt work then there would be nothing else to do but the tests.

Earlier I was referring to a custome tune in order to correct it not the SOA tune.

With that being said though not everything needs a lawyer to be resolved. I have a warranty on my car and plan to use it until every issue is resolved without paying for a dime. Unfortunately if I have to hold off going stg 2 then I will just hold off - As much as I want to get it done I care about my car and want it to last for a long time to come.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:21 PM   #19
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UPDATE

The dealer called me and I went into the dealership yesterday to get the updated REFLASH (appraently this should fix the misfire issue - from their perspective). I figured a tune would correct the misfire issue but if something was damaged due to the misfire then time will tell.

I let them know I have been checking the oil since my last visit and it seems to be getting low. He told me before they will do a compression test they will want to monitor my oil consumption. Basically I would have to get an oil change (I am due for it soon anyways) and come in every thousand miles and have them check it. If by 4k miles the oil has dropped then they will do a compression test.

So I am going to get my oil changed then drive it around and if there is an issue there will be nothing else they can do besides a compression test to find out if there is anything internally wrong with the engine.
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:31 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonzFaSTi View Post
UPDATE

The dealer called me and I went into the dealership yesterday to get the updated REFLASH (appraently this should fix the misfire issue - from their perspective). I figured a tune would correct the misfire issue but if something was damaged due to the misfire then time will tell.

I let them know I have been checking the oil since my last visit and it seems to be getting low. He told me before they will do a compression test they will want to monitor my oil consumption. Basically I would have to get an oil change (I am due for it soon anyways) and come in every thousand miles and have them check it. If by 4k miles the oil has dropped then they will do a compression test.

So I am going to get my oil changed then drive it around and if there is an issue there will be nothing else they can do besides a compression test to find out if there is anything internally wrong with the engine.
Have them do a goddamn compression test already! FYI: It's within "spec" to eat 1qt per 1k miles. ie: They are going to KEEP PUTTING YOU OFF.
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:44 PM   #21
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Interesting about the supposed new map they are going to flash on it. There was a revision to the original 2011 STi map but it didn't fix any of the poor tuning issues; it just had to do with emissions crap I think.

If they do flash your car with a new map, see if you can find someone local with a tactrix cable and have them read the map and see if its something new that hasn't been seen yet. I'd be curious to know.

Keep us updated.
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Old 03-28-2012, 09:32 PM   #22
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Have them do a goddamn compression test already! FYI: It's within "spec" to eat 1qt per 1k miles. ie: They are going to KEEP PUTTING YOU OFF.
I am working on it but with no other signs that there is something wrong demanding this is a little hard. Like I stated before if it came back normal then I would have to pay for the test (quoted $250). If there is another way to know if there is something wrong I am open to it but for right now (while I am still under warranty) I dont want to come out of pocket with a few hundred bucks based on speculation.
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Old 03-28-2012, 09:35 PM   #23
JonzFaSTi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXt4cy View Post
Interesting about the supposed new map they are going to flash on it. There was a revision to the original 2011 STi map but it didn't fix any of the poor tuning issues; it just had to do with emissions crap I think.

If they do flash your car with a new map, see if you can find someone local with a tactrix cable and have them read the map and see if its something new that hasn't been seen yet. I'd be curious to know.

Keep us updated.
"ECM reprogram on some 2011 Outback, Legacy, and Imprezas. A modification to the ECM software logic has been developed to improve the performance of the emission control system. This software change will not adversely affect fuel economy or performance. Program #WVT-30" : http://www.cars101.com/recalls.html

I am pretty sure this might be what you are talking about.

http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7148

I have been in contact with COBB about getting a custome reflash on my car for almost a year now and have updated them on my situation since my first appt. that was in Nov. I originally stopped by thier shop and had them read my ECU to make sure it was something they would be able to tune since i was having trouble getting a tuner to give me a custome OS tune.

Now that I have the updated reflash from SOA I asked if I can stop by again to have them read my ECU to see what the changes were. If I get any information I will update.
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Old 03-28-2012, 10:21 PM   #24
wichitalegacy
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first time I got a misfire in my 2011 sti was at 2900 miles and cylinder 3 was shot . Dealership replaced it right away
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Old 03-29-2012, 12:54 AM   #25
JonzFaSTi
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Originally Posted by wichitalegacy View Post
first time I got a misfire in my 2011 sti was at 2900 miles and cylinder 3 was shot . Dealership replaced it right away
Other than a CEL that popped up was there anything else that you could notice that made you think there was an internal problem?
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