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Old 03-14-2012, 03:33 PM   #1
e-rue
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Default torque converters and stall speed

theres not much talk about subaru torque converters, mostly because theres not that many automatic cars being modded, but im hoping to find a little good advice on here about selecting a torque converter.

as i understand it, if i was to install a converter from a 2 liter into my 2.5 liter it should stall a little higher because of the additional torque that the larger displacement engine produces. so a good way to save some money would be to use a torque converter from a different application, rather than pay to have the stock one restalled, not to mention the inconvience of the downtime.

here are some of the listings i see for subaru......







of obvious notice, are several things.....

1. mounting: if it will not physically bolt up then theres no point talking about it...... but, am i asuming correctly, that as long as the converters are made for the same 4EAT tranmission, the flex plate could also be swapped, and it would eliminate bolt pattern issues?

2. lock up vs non lockup. i think streetability and long trips are important so im not even considering going to a non locking converter.

3. trans type.... im pretty sure it doesnt make sense to consider anything thats designed for a different trans. i have to assume it doesnt physically fit.

4. converter diameter.... in my days of aftermarket converters for domestic hot rods the higher stalling after market converters were always smaller diameter. im not sure i know exactly why, id love to hear some one "in the know" elaborate. it appears that the converters for smaller displacement subaru engines are physically smaller in diameter..... leading me to believe that the turbo legacy or wrx converter would stall higher.

has anyone tried an of these swaps? what was the outcome?
getting a used converter can be free, and an aftermarket repalcement is dirt cheap as well.
might be a good alternative.

e
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Last edited by e-rue; 03-14-2012 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 03-14-2012, 03:37 PM   #2
ManualOverAuto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e-rue
theres not much talk about subaru torque converters, mostly because theres not that many automatic cars being modded, but im hoping to find a little good advice on here about selecting a torque converter.

as i understand it, if i was to install a converter from a 2 liter into my 2.5 liter it should stall a little higher because of the additional torque that the larger displacement engine produces. so a good way to save some money would be to use a torque converter from a different application, rather than pay to have the stock one restalled, not to mention the inconvience of the downtime.

here are some of the listings i see for subaru......

of obvious notice, are several things.....

1. mounting: if it will not physically bolt up then theres no point talking about it...... but am i asuming correctly that as long as the converters are made for the same 4EAT tranmission, the flex plate could also be swapped, and it would eliminate bolt pattern issues?

2. lock up vs non lockup. i think streetability and long trips are important so im not even considering going to a non locking converter.

3. trans type.... im pretty sure it doesnt make sense to consider anything thats designed for a different trans. i have to assume it doesnt physically fit.

4. converter diameter.... in my days of aftermarket converters for domestic hot rods the higher stalling after market converters were always smaller diameter. im not sure i know exactly why, id love to hear some one "in the know" elaborate. it appears that the converters for smaller displacement engines are smaller in diameter..... leading me to believe that the turbo legacy or wrx converter would stall higher.

has anyone tried an of these swaps? what was the outcome?

e
Sorry about not contributing to this thread but I don't know much about the 4eat's.

I'm just curious as to why you like to mod automatics? I'm not hating or anything, I'm just wondering.
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Old 03-14-2012, 03:45 PM   #3
Dominator
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I'm subscribed for hopefully more info on this.

^^ To answer the above question, I've got a 91 Turbo Legacy with an auto for my daily driver. I don't want to swap it to a manual. It would be more fun, yes, but I would lose the convenience of just putting it in drive and go. The auto is great for my "Morning Zombie" feeling, and stop and go traffic, drinking coffee, etc. None-the-less, I would be interested in seeing what cheap mods are out there and what would be useful.
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Old 03-15-2012, 11:37 AM   #4
rexorcist
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nothing is cheap...look at protorque and ipt, both do stall converters for subes
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Old 03-15-2012, 03:34 PM   #5
ciper
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There are at least three diameter of flex plate and two types of center shaft. Otherwise as long as it came from an EJ subaru (and some of the other models) it is compatible.

There is something you are overlooking. The torque multiplication amount is not always the same. Some of the newer ones had 1.8 times the torque (compared to 1.6 for some of the older ones)

ManualOverAuto If you have the chance to drive a properly modified auto car you'd see. The reason I do it is the incredible low end. Three things make an automatic spank a manual at low speeds
The ability to build boost at a stand still
The torque converter multiplies torque
The ability to keep full load on the engine between shifts

With a manual it is not easy to build boost for a launch. This means the turbo doesn't spool until after you have already decided to start moving. With an auto you can already have 80% of your boost going. Combine that with the torque multiplication. Lets say at 2800 rpm you have 10psi of boost for a total of 100torque. The torque converter automagically turns that into 180 foot pounds of torque. Who wouldn't want a free 80 foot pounds? The shift from first to second never unloads the engine. This means no loss of time between shifts and the turbo maintains it spool. That is why blow off valves sometimes "dont work" on an automatic.

My daily was a beater made of left over parts. It was a 91 legacy with an EJ25D and a 4.44 final drive auto. I had put a TC from a 2.2 and it would RAPE just about any car off the line. I never met a car that could keep up for the first 200 feet (after that was a different story haha)
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Old 08-17-2012, 07:44 PM   #6
shaheenis
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Looks like this thread just died but I am really interested in where this is going with using stock torque converter options. I have owned a modified Subaru auto turbo for almost 10yrs and been through VF10, VF28 and now VF23 turbo. I am currently running a high stall converter that stalls past 3500rpm on the modified 2.2ltr. From what I have read (and my experience) you need to be careful not to have too higher stall speed or you actually lose power. I also think that my driveability and fuel economy suffers. Given I drive mostly street I am considering going back to the VF28 and downgrading my converter to one of the higher stall 'stock' ones. Problem is I don't know what the various stall speeds are of the factory converters and they must vary given the number of different turbos and engines they have been matched with.

The images above look quite useful but are too small for me to read .
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Old 10-14-2013, 03:28 PM   #7
e-rue
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update:

got an IPT converter and i hate it.
its supposed to stall at 3k and it easily flashes up to 3400 at half throttle (7-8psi).

i should have gotten the 2 liter converter.
i'm going to try to find someone that wants this IPT, swap up, and see what happens.

whats really really hard about automatics, is getting the converter stalled correctly. when its stalled too high its mushy and doesn't make good low end torque, (not any fun when driving around town) when its too tight you have notable lag. (not any fun when you want quick acceleration) On mine what i was really hoping to get, is a converter that would slip more from idle to 2k, (my S1 cams don't make great torque below 2k rpm) then start to tighten up and ultimately stall around 2800-3000. (PTE55 turbo is full spool at 2800rpm) ironically i started this post a long time ago, and today when i search to see if anyone has anything good to say about converters and their experience with using a 2 liter converter all i see is my own post. lol

e
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Old 10-14-2013, 04:32 PM   #8
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Wow. Usually a 3000-3400rpm stall is the butter zone. Surprised you don't like it.
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Old 10-14-2013, 05:34 PM   #9
e-rue
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its most noticeable in 3rd gear where the load is higher..... also consider that its a full weight forester. the engine can be buzzing up at 3000+ rpm and not really accelerating hard at all, because its still well within the "slip" range..... just feels mushy and disconnected. don't get me wrong its not terribly far off, but its not what i want in a street car.

e
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:24 AM   #10
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3500RPM to 4500RPM from what I've seen.
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:56 AM   #11
ScaabyDaabyDaa
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I'm reviving an old thread. The way you're supposed to pick your torque converter stall speed is by knowing where your torque peak is. If you dyno your car you're torque curve should tell you where you want your torque converter to fully apply power to the wheels.
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