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Old 09-04-2012, 09:26 PM   #1
Coldcutt
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Default EJ207 V7 STi swap into a 02 usdm wrx questions

Hello everyone,

Im in the market for a new motor for my 2002 USDM WRX which has high mileage and valve problems. I have done some looking around and have decided i want to go with the JDM ej207 V7 STi motor. After many hours searching and reading, i cant seem to find any solid info that makes me feel 100% confident in just ordering a motor.

From what i understand, to make the AVCS work i need a wiring harness from IAP. If the motor comes with the JDM ecu, will i still need the harness?

What do i need to know about bolting the motor up to my 5mt transmission (as much as i'd love the 6mt its just not financially possible). I know there is Standard gears and RA gears, is this something i need to worry about, how can i know the motor will work with my transmission. How can i tell what gears i have in my transmission.

Do i need any new hubs or axles or can i use my stock axles?

Anything else that you may be able to point out?

This will be my first motor swap, and im just a little unsure, so any help would be greatly appreciated!

About my car, its basically stock as is, i have a Greddy turbo back exhaust, cobb accessport flashed to stage 2 93 octane (running 94 octane),a greddy type rs BOV, and a zero sports intake elbow.

Forgive my noobness, thanks in advance!
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Old 09-09-2012, 04:01 PM   #2
Pakin
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If you can save a little bit more to get a matching 6MT, do it. I think it is completely worth it. If fact get everything if you can. The complete package will change your car for the better.

If you do keep the 5MT, you don't need to swap anything, except for an uprated clutch. Use the same clutch/flywheel combo as you would to bolt on the 207. You do need to know with the mileage of your car, you may run into problems with the transmission since you have stock gears. I did with my 5MT.

One of the cheapest upgrade options are RA gears or STi Non-RA/LGT USDM gears, and that will hold the stock 207 power well and reliably. I went with the LGT gears and have put 70K with track time/drag session with no issues.

With your 16bit WRX, all you need are the AVCS wires added in. You may need to look up the crank sensors and reverse the pins as well, but you need a wiring harness to confirm. It may not even matter if it is not polarity sensitive. I did it on mine. These swaps are pretty easy and well documented if you search around this site.
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Old 09-09-2012, 07:11 PM   #3
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Get a version 8 or newer motor, they all have the big port heads and less age/miles compared to the v7
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Old 09-09-2012, 10:02 PM   #4
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Wrong, as long as you get a version 6+ JDM engine NOT a EDM engine you will get the big port heads (tho a v6 is a much different animal than v7/v8). other things that differ is the internals. v7 is a fully forged block, and the v8 has cast pistons. heads are the same casing wise, different versions have some different cam setups but all mostly the same. Spec C models are nothing more than a factory hand PnP big port casing. Both are great options. As for the transmissions they have a few differences as well but in general a 6 speed is far superior to the 5 speed if you can afford it go for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeskywrx View Post
Get a version 8 or newer motor, they all have the big port heads and less age/miles compared to the v7
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Old 09-09-2012, 10:09 PM   #5
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Quote:
From what i understand, to make the AVCS work i need a wiring harness from IAP. If the motor comes with the JDM ecu, will i still need the harness?
You dont NEED to hook up avcs, you can even run the USDM wrx ecu with a tune (due to the octane difference in JDM land) Best option is to use the v7/v8 ecu (both are the same and you can use either, some have a higher 400 GPS (gram per second) flow max tho im not sure on which these are but they have specific ECU codes) so your options are...
1. USDM wrx ecu tuned (MUST BE TUNED)
2. JDM v7/v8 ecu (no IA wiring harness means no avcs, this is fine if its what you want)
3. jdm v7/v8 ecu with IA wiring for avcs (no the wrx ecu will not work for avcs even with the IA wiring)

Quote:
What do i need to know about bolting the motor up to my 5mt transmission (as much as i'd love the 6mt its just not financially possible). I know there is Standard gears and RA gears, is this something i need to worry about, how can i know the motor will work with my transmission. How can i tell what gears i have in my transmission.
This im a little lost on because i used a 6 speed swap, but i do know there is a sensor i believe you will need to swap, possibly the speed sensor? i could be wrong and i highly recommend a 6 speed.

Quote:
Do i need any new hubs or axles or can i use my stock axles?
if you using your stock 5 speed you wont need to change anything, if you get the 6 speed swap you will want to get the axles and such with the swap. (if you brembo swap the fronts bolt on, the rears you will need the full r180 setup or will need some adapters.)

Hope this helps, PM me if you have anymore questions.... i know far too much about the ej207 lol
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Old 09-09-2012, 10:22 PM   #6
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I have a spec C, they are not ported and polished from the factory. And there is a chance v7s will be small port so I would not risk my money.

Yes v8-v9s have cast pistons, and you dont see lots of them breaking do you? They are plenty strong and the v7 pistons are not like aftermarket pistons they are only slightly stronger. If you are going beyond 400hp aftermarket forged pistons are a good idea, until then the factory ones have been proven to work just fine. The twin scroll setup on the v8-v9s is also far superior to the single scroll turbos in terms of response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8WRX View Post
Wrong, as long as you get a version 6+ JDM engine NOT a EDM engine you will get the big port heads (tho a v6 is a much different animal than v7/v8). other things that differ is the internals. v7 is a fully forged block, and the v8 has cast pistons. heads are the same casing wise, different versions have some different cam setups but all mostly the same. Spec C models are nothing more than a factory hand PnP big port casing. Both are great options. As for the transmissions they have a few differences as well but in general a 6 speed is far superior to the 5 speed if you can afford it go for it.
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Old 09-10-2012, 12:57 AM   #7
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Thanks alot guys! Appreciate the responses.

I ordered the motor along with the IA bulkhead harness and have a jdm ecu that goes with the motor.

Do you guys recommend I get a tune? Will not having the motor tuned, running it off the stock ecu maps and using 94 octane do damage?

Also N8WRX, what do you mean by swapping a sensor on the transmission?

Again thanks for the help.
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Old 09-10-2012, 01:13 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldcutt View Post
Thanks alot guys! Appreciate the responses.

I ordered the motor along with the IA bulkhead harness and have a jdm ecu that goes with the motor.

Do you guys recommend I get a tune? Will not having the motor tuned, running it off the stock ecu maps and using 94 octane do damage?

Also N8WRX, what do you mean by swapping a sensor on the transmission?

Again thanks for the help.
I used to run 94 in Washington State (I live a bit south from you) on my stock Ver8 207, and it knocked. My experience with B.C. gasoline is that it's even worse.

It's been a while, but I recall that the JDM engines call for 98RON, which is equivalent to about 96 pump octane here.

Definitely get it retuned. These ECUs can be reflashed just like your WRX. The stock JDM ECUs run very aggressive advance because they can with the better fuel refinement that is available to the domestic consumer. Just part of the reason why the engines can make more power stock than the USDM STi.
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Old 09-10-2012, 02:21 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldcutt View Post
Also N8WRX, what do you mean by swapping a sensor on the transmission?
THe V8 ecu will be looking for an inverted neutral position switch, and your 02 switch in not inverted so the car will never think it is in gear and AVCS won't work.

The NPS from a 05+ USDM STI is inverted and will drop right in.
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:06 AM   #10
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Pakin, do you think running a good quality octane booster will suffice until I get a tune, or will it still knock?

Lukeskywrx, I have the v7 ecu, does the same thing with the NPS still apply? How do I invert it..?
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Old 09-10-2012, 12:10 PM   #11
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Just try not to boost the car much and you will be fine until you can get a tune. The 207 is very resistant to knock compared to the 205 and the stock map was only detonating on 91oct at full boost above 6000 rpm, when a local guy was trying it out before I tuned him. You will find with the JDM motors there are tons of people that perpetuate lies and myths (spec C heads are factory ported and polished for example). Very few people that chime in and tell you something really know what they are talking about. A friend even has a JDM v9 motor running on a 32bit forester XT ecu, and we were told by a well known "expert" that it cannot be done.

This is a log from a stock v9 motor on 91 oct, you can see it detonating above 6k



I believe the v7 is not inverted, but I am not 100% on that since they are less common than the v8 and v9s. You will know if AVCS does not work and the car does not indicate that it is in gear.

Last edited by lukeskywrx; 09-10-2012 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 09-10-2012, 02:42 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeskywrx View Post


I believe the v7 is not inverted, but I am not 100% on that since they are less common than the v8 and v9s. You will know if AVCS does not work and the car does not indicate that it is in gear.

confirmed, v7 is not inverted, the OP can just add in AVCS wiring with the stock 02 5sp NPS
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Old 09-11-2012, 12:53 AM   #13
Pakin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldcutt View Post
Pakin, do you think running a good quality octane booster will suffice until I get a tune, or will it still knock?
The only octane booster I ran of any kind was Torco, and it works well for exactly that, as a knock inhibitor. I ran track events with it as well with no issues.

It does contain a bunch of MMT, which will leave off an orange residue in on your plugs and exhaust related parts. Mostly harmless, but it may affect the longevity of your sensors and cats.





Meow
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:30 AM   #14
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Are any of these JDM motors Cali smog legal? Im not sure if my motor is on its way out as it feels fine but log says otherwise, till i get the right plugs etc but if it is i want to know my options as well.I have been searching aswell for engines and swaps to see if the jdm is worth going for.I want to get around 350HP but smog legal and reliable.
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DabiDa View Post
Are any of these JDM motors Cali smog legal? Im not sure if my motor is on its way out as it feels fine but log says otherwise, till i get the right plugs etc but if it is i want to know my options as well.I have been searching aswell for engines and swaps to see if the jdm is worth going for.I want to get around 350HP but smog legal and reliable.
No it is not smog legal, but you could put a WRX manifold on it and it would look almost exactly the same. and you can run it on the WRX ecu if needed since the JDM ecu does not pass on all the OBD scanners.

It could pass but it is not legal.
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:37 PM   #16
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Ok guys, I am not trying to hijack this thread. I am thinking about doing the same swap, ej207 V8 into a 2002 wrx keeping the 5spd. So maybe this can help you out too. The swap seems simple in theory. Take my busted motor out and put the ej207 in. I should be able to use my wireing harness just add the avcs wire kit to it. I should be able to use my ecu, that way i can get inspected and use the ob2 scaner, I just need a tune. I can fab up a connector pipe to go from the shorter dp to my midpipe. There is one other thing about the ac wireing. I found a diagram so that will be a sinch. Since I am using my 5spd there is nothing i need to do with the axles. Walaaa, there you go. Is there anything i am forgetting? Am i simplifying this too much. My buddy who would help me is worried.
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:52 PM   #17
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if you stay with your 02usdm ECU, you will not be able to run AVCS. or are you saying that you plan to just hold on to your USDM ecu for emission test but run the JDM ecu the rest of the time
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:17 PM   #18
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Spec C are PnP from the factory (very mild just rough surfaces) however if you order a set of heads for a spec C model from the factory new they will not be ported. The port work was only done on the original heads that went out with the cars new. This is the same for many other cars one particular i can name quick is the Acura GSR type R.

Small port heads on ej207 are also only on EDM cars, theres a long thread on here sorry for not linking but a search can find it. The timing belt codes are logged and all EDM or euro spec ej207 engines were small port to accommodate emissions standards. JDM motors are not required to have as restrictive of a head to meet any standards for Japan so these heads have the larger ports no matter what make or model.

V7 and V8 motors are all amazing strait from the factory, cast pistons or not i would say they both have there pros and cons. Cast pistons or forged i would agree both stock motors done correctly can run 500 crank HP very easily and possibly even more if your willing to take a risk.

I would agree that twin scroll is far superior. If your planning on running the stock turbo setup a V8 motor is a very good option. Really all depends on exacally what your end goals are in what motor you pick. When i did my swap i went with the V7 motor because i knew i didnt want to break into the internals quite yet and still wanted to run a gt3076R on it so the slight extra strength was attractive and i knew i would eventually rebuild the full motor. Here are a couple images to give you all some additional info.

PS: small port heads in these pics on the ej257 are very similar to the small port EJ207 heads. These spec C ones in the image are hand PnP from the factory.
You can tell by the comparison to the ej257 head as the flat surfaces are slightly rougher than the Spec C head.




Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeskywrx View Post
I have a spec C, they are not ported and polished from the factory. And there is a chance v7s will be small port so I would not risk my money.

Yes v8-v9s have cast pistons, and you dont see lots of them breaking do you? They are plenty strong and the v7 pistons are not like aftermarket pistons they are only slightly stronger. If you are going beyond 400hp aftermarket forged pistons are a good idea, until then the factory ones have been proven to work just fine. The twin scroll setup on the v8-v9s is also far superior to the single scroll turbos in terms of response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeskywrx View Post
You will find with the JDM motors there are tons of people that perpetuate lies and myths (spec C heads are factory ported and polished for example). Very few people that chime in and tell you something really know what they are talking about..

Last edited by N8WRX; 09-13-2012 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 09-13-2012, 11:29 PM   #19
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You have read some information from older threads.
Some of these threads are from as long ago as 2004 or even older.
We have to respect that early work that has been done this long time ago.
However, since then, a lot has changed. Many more people have acquired these engines. More information has come out. Part numbers are here to help us understand where things were different and where the EJ207 did not differ actually.
ROM is now available for all to see and compare and understand what these cars were programed to do stock.

But this is how things are on the internet: Someone makes a statement, 5 years later it becomes gospel.

Now, let's look together at the picture that shows the Spec C ports, which is about the last one left on the forums said to be proof of the porting and polishing:
-Do you see the casting marks on the lateral walls, about half way up from the bottom, where the guide is, to the ceiling? They are not polished away...

Say that you wanted to hand-polish just the bottom and the ceiling, but not the sides, by hand, would there not be a shinier threshold, from the dremel?

Also, like I said: Now, the information is out. Look at the press release for the Spec C, there is a translation online. The hint to search for it, is that the Spec C was intitially not called a spec C, for the New Age, but a Type RA. The release does not talk about porting and polishing.
If there was such, then they would use it as a sales point, they're a business..
Now look at the press release of the S204, for instance (find it in English at sti.jp), they will talk about ballancing the engine right away, it is true...

You have to sift and choose what to believe...
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Old 09-14-2012, 01:15 AM   #20
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A buddy got a regular V9 right before I got my V9 spec-C, we both pulled our manifolds and the head ports are exactly the same. Same shape, size, texture, finish, everything no evidence of finish work on either head as there were sharp edges on the inner edge of all the intake ports. I wanted to know the difference between the two so we compared them while both were available.

We measured the cams on his v9 and the spec-C they are exactly the same, The intake cams have 0.25" less lift than 257 cams and a touch more duration, exhaust cams all have the same lift (v9, spec-C, 257) with the 257 having less duration. The valves and springs look identical as well v9 to spec-C.

THe only real apparent differences between the two are the oil cooler, water pump and turbo.
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:32 AM   #21
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This sounds right.
A lot of that early work from '02-'04, they did not really know what they were looking at, they did not compare notes and collaborate, like we're starting to do now.

It seems more like one acquired a piece of information (sometimes wrong information) and then just paraded in front of all, that the person knows more, at least that's how some of the early threads look like.
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:39 AM   #22
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I'll say though, exciting things are at the horizon:

With the V10 Spec C, things start once more to be quite different.

I'm having a bit of trouble sorting through the information, but it seems now that with the V10, Subaru of Japan had 3 engines:
EJ207 for Sti
EJ257 for Sti A-line, automatic
EJ207 for Spec C

This last one (and I will try to find if it has a different designation, it should) is a different casting than a regular Sti EJ207.

They are drive by cable, dual avcs, with immobilizer CAN bus.
In theory, in a GRB USDM Sti, a swap should be straightforward.
There is a good probabillity that a USDM ECU with its paired immobilizer may run this engine.
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Old 09-14-2012, 12:03 PM   #23
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Oh I forgot to mention the V9 my buddy has is in a 2005 forester running on a 32bit ECU with drive by wire. It is a basic swap to make it work with the 32bit ecu and just requires a few tweaks. We were told by just about everyone (including some nationally known tuners) that it will not work for this or that reason, but like you are saying most of the people spreading rumors have no idea what they are talking about.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2372623

The V10 should allow the CANbus guys to get into the JDM game
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Old 09-14-2012, 02:54 PM   #24
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Not going to argue or stand and be called a liar from people who wont do there foot work so if you would like true, backed, evidence supported information on the EJ207 engines no matter make or model PM me, Thanks.

PS: look up what extrude honing is

/Thread for me

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Old 09-14-2012, 03:07 PM   #25
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I don't think anyone was calling you a liar at all. Just stating that more information comes about after time and comparisings.
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