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Old 03-26-2012, 02:37 PM   #1
A Fatal Ode
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http://www.mlive.com/auto/index.ssf/...ally_into.html






AUBURN HILLS -- Chrysler Group LLC will look to its 2013 Dodge Dart to hit the bull’s-eye on the streets and on the race track.
According to the Auburn Hills-based automaker, Dodge and SRT Motorsports Monday announced an all-new Dodge Dart will compete in the 2012 Global RallyCross Championship (GRC) Series.
The vehicle, which will make its racing debut May 26 at the Charlotte Motor Speedway, will be piloted by four-time Rally America Champion and 17-time X Games Gold Medalist Travis Pastrana.
“The new Dart Global RallyCross Championship car with 600 horsepower and driver Travis Pastrana takes our passion for performance to all new heights,” said Reid Bigland, president and CEO of Dodge Brand, in a statement.
The Dart rally car is custom built specifically for Global RallyCross racing, but shares a few traits with the production Dodge Dart, officials say.
It is powered by a purpose-built, 2.0-liter, 4-cylinder, 16-valve turbo-charged 600-horsepower engine mated to a Sedav 4-wheel drive gear box that puts out more than 550 lb.-ft. of torque.
The production version of the Dart, which is expected to debut as soon as next month, is particularly important to Chrysler because it is the first vehicle jointly designed with parent company Fiat SpA. It is based on the Alfa Romeo Giulietta, a compact sold in Europe, but is wider and longer to handle Americans' need for more space.
The Dart is the most recent production vehicle to be released with a race car version. Earlier this year, Ford Motor Co. announced a 2013 Fusion NASCAR Sprint Cup car; and General Motors Co. is expected to release a new Chevy nameplate for the NASCAR Sprint Cup series that will "closely resemble" a new production vehicle for consumers.
Dodge and SRT Motorsports also recently unveiled a new 2013 Dodge Charger for the Sprint Cup.
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Old 03-26-2012, 02:43 PM   #2
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I'd love to know who will build the RC version.
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Old 03-26-2012, 03:09 PM   #3
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Double post??
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Old 03-26-2012, 03:10 PM   #4
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Travis is driving a Toyota in NASCAR but a Dodge in Rally?

Last I heard his NASCAR deal isn't holding up very well and he lost a lot of sponsors after he broke obliterated his foot the weekend of the much hyped Pastranathon, which was supposed to be X-Games on bike and rally and then NASCAR in the same weekend.
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Old 03-26-2012, 03:43 PM   #5
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With all the money Travis should have by now you'd think he Kubica sport and just stay with it.
tenuous, but what's humor without the risk?
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Old 03-26-2012, 04:45 PM   #6
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Cool, now buld a 300+hp awd road car. Someone needs to take over for Mitsubishi as a Subaru alternative. Chrysler doing it would be amusing
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Old 03-26-2012, 06:20 PM   #7
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SRT-4 is fastar!!!

(somebody had to say it...)
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:43 PM   #8
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I'm sure this is testing waters for a future Dart SRT model.

I'm sure Dodge paid a good penny to get Pastrana to field the car. Or Pastrana is looking for a fall back if NASCAR does not work out.

I would think Pastrana wants to "stay in touch" with the fanbase he established with Motocross and Rally racing. I'm sure he and the NASCAR sponsors were hoping they would follow him to NASCAR but that didn't seem to pan out that way. Pastrana seem to "fall off the map" with Motocross and Rally fans and many NASCAR fans just didn't know who he was. It doesn't help that he is competing the Nationwide Series which doesn't get nearly the publicity as the Sprint Series.
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:05 PM   #9
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I have doubts this is testing waters for a SRT. I'm sure that will be FWD.
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpristave View Post
I have doubts this is testing waters for a SRT. I'm sure that will be FWD.
This. Just like all of the other manufacturers in rally (with the exception of Subaru, Mitsu, and MINI).
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:45 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbs627 View Post
This. Just like all of the other manufacturers in rally (with the exception of Subaru, Mitsu, and MINI).
Probably but one can hope. There was a rumor that the SRT Neon was going AWD but it was said the Neon was not capable so then the Caliber came and still no AWD
SRT so maybe this will be the one they choose!?
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovin' it View Post
Probably but one can hope. There was a rumor that the SRT Neon was going AWD but it was said the Neon was not capable so then the Caliber came and still no AWD
SRT so maybe this will be the one they choose!?
whats worst is that they had /have the AWD system already on the caliber but as usual $$ talks
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:42 PM   #13
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Actually a production AWD Dart is not as far fetched as you all may think. There are rumors that AWD will be available on the 2013 Dart late in the production year, or for the 2014 model.

As for the SRT Dart .. it's coming, that is certain .. and that's about all that is certain. However, I personally believe that if the AWD Dart rumors turn out to be true, then the SRT will also be AWD .. would be foolish for it not to be if an AWD version is available.

By simply using an AWD platform, they eliminate the #1 complaint with high HP FWD cars .. torque steer.
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subyski View Post
I'm sure this is testing waters for a future Dart SRT model.

I'm sure Dodge paid a good penny to get Pastrana to field the car. Or Pastrana is looking for a fall back if NASCAR does not work out.

I would think Pastrana wants to "stay in touch" with the fanbase he established with Motocross and Rally racing. I'm sure he and the NASCAR sponsors were hoping they would follow him to NASCAR but that didn't seem to pan out that way. Pastrana seem to "fall off the map" with Motocross and Rally fans and many NASCAR fans just didn't know who he was. It doesn't help that he is competing the Nationwide Series which doesn't get nearly the publicity as the Sprint Series.
As of now Pastrana doesn't have enough sponsors to field a NASCAR team at the Nationwide level for a full season, or even a half season. He lost a lot of fans (including me) when he switched over to NASCAR and I think his window of opportunity is closed and this might be a way to thrust his name back into the spotlight.

I don't want to say his NASCAR ambitions are dead at this juncture, but they aren't as wide open as they were last year.

Personally, I don't care if he comes back to rally or not, even though he was instrumental in bringing it to the level it is today in the US.
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Old 03-29-2012, 12:36 PM   #15
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Still would like the Alfa Romeo version to come here.
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Old 03-30-2012, 10:40 PM   #16
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Seriously did not see this one coming.

I may not get everything that Fiat/Chrysler is doing, but it seems like they are trying for the first time in years.
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Old 03-30-2012, 11:21 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrumpyPitbull
By simply using an AWD platform, they eliminate the #1 complaint with high HP FWD cars .. torque steer.
AWD doesn't eliminate torque steer. It only reduces it. Any time you put torque through the steering axle you're going to get torque steer. ...and torque steer is probably complaint #3 or 4.. after handling balance and weight distribution.
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Old 03-30-2012, 11:23 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaomega0 View Post
whats worst is that they had /have the AWD system already on the caliber but as usual $$ talks
IK and the AWD would have made it so much quicker, the FWD and the electronic "nannies" killed the SRT Calibers accelleration.
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Old 03-31-2012, 03:44 AM   #19
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Quote:
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AWD doesn't eliminate torque steer. It only reduces it. Any time you put torque through the steering axle you're going to get torque steer. ...and torque steer is probably complaint #3 or 4.. after handling balance and weight distribution.
Well, for me it's the #1 complaint. I absolutely hate torque steer, and it's reduced enough in an AWD platform for me not to notice it enough to matter.

I've driven high HP FWD cars where you go WOT and the steering wheel just goes crazy .. never had that issue on my AWD cars though.
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Old 03-31-2012, 11:24 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrumpyPitbull View Post
Well, for me it's the #1 complaint. I absolutely hate torque steer, and it's reduced enough in an AWD platform for me not to notice it enough to matter.

I've driven high HP FWD cars where you go WOT and the steering wheel just goes crazy .. never had that issue on my AWD cars though.
I would say that the assymetrical nature of the Subaru Impreza layout reduces torque steer a considerable amount. Other AWD systems may still have a lot of torque steer.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:18 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrumpyPitbull View Post
By simply using an AWD platform, they eliminate the #1 complaint with high HP FWD cars .. torque steer.
While true, there is always one problem with throwing AWD in a small platform model, cost. This is always a tough business decision because this raises production costs thus increasing msrp and lowering mpg. There is a reason why you don't see many small, high hp, awd vehicles. Even with Subaru doing this for a long time, sales of the WRX and STI are limited.

Realistically, AWD may be an option for the Dart but not in a performance trim. Most likely, an SRT Dart will stick with a FWD setup with Traction Control, Stability Control, Torque Vectoring, and other electronic do-dads to control costs.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:41 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manticus View Post
I would say that the assymetrical nature of the Subaru Impreza layout reduces torque steer a considerable amount. Other AWD systems may still have a lot of torque steer.
I am sure you meant symmetrical right?

a·sym·met·ri·cal/ˌāsəˈmetrikəl/

Adjective:
  • Having parts that fail to correspond to one another in shape, size, or arrangement; lacking symmetry.
  • Having parts or aspects that are not equal or equivalent; unequal in some respect.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:03 PM   #23
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yup. The fact that Subaru has equal, or very nearly equal length half-shafts is what allows for longer suspension arms with longer travel, and lack of torque-steer effect.

Transverse engines have the gearbox on the end of the engine, and the differential slung behind the gearbox and engine, off to one side with the transmission. near side axle shaft is very short, off-side axle shaft is much longer, or jointed into two shorter shafts, but still with a longer effective length from diff to wheel. The suspension has to be short on the near side, and symmetrically short on the off-side to match the handling.

(I never quite understood why the diff isn't in the front, allowing it to be a front-mid engine layout, with less front weight bias, and less front overhang...)
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