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Old 10-31-2012, 01:34 PM   #1
illmatic
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Last Legacy tS was available with in 5AT/6MT. I wonder Subaru what manual transmission they will be using for the FA20 DIT.
http://www.sti.jp/product/previousmo...0legacyts.html





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Last edited by illmatic; 10-31-2012 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:40 PM   #2
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tS STi wagon?

whhhhhaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA????

shutupandtakemymoney.jpg

--kC
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Old 10-31-2012, 02:34 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC View Post
tS STi wagon?

whhhhhaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA????

shutupandtakemymoney.jpg

--kC
+1. A great car that I am sad they don't sell in the states.

The Sport Wagon idea is just about perfect in my book. It's like a "hot hatch" that you can actually use for a family. Europe buys them; Asia buys them. Apparently we only drive SUVs, and hate all estate wagons.
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:10 PM   #4
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What the? I thought everyone said that they couldn't build an NA STi?
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:10 PM   #5
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SOA says we don't want that....or a diesel.
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:12 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyer Subaru
What the? I thought everyone said that they couldn't build an NA STi?
? OP says it's got a DIT... That's turbo if I'm mistaken.

Of course I could just be missing your point.
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:14 PM   #7
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It's because Americans think it's not cool to drive a station wagon. Well, I guess I'm not cool because I want that!
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:42 PM   #8
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If you look up you can see tS X NA. If my engrishy is as strong as I think it is, this statement says that the new tS will be NA. Not turbo'd.

The DIT is already being used in the Legacy Sedan and Wagon trims. These cars have a hood scoop to feed the tmic. The tS above doesn't have a hood scoop.

Again leading me to believe that it will be NA.

No one can believe that STi would ever put out an NA model.
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:42 PM   #9
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Oh wow! I want I want. I am also very uncool.
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Old 10-31-2012, 04:45 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Cowboy Neal View Post
SOA says we don't want that....or a diesel.
Not true (at least on the diesel front). It's the fact that diesels are much harder to certify for US emissions and importing them is more expensive so basically they don't think that people will pay the extra chedder (2-3k) for them. I'm hoping that Mazda bringing their Skyactiv diesels here will serve as a push for Subaru to.
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Old 10-31-2012, 04:53 PM   #11
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"STI tS" is redundant since "tS" means "tuned by STI". I must hate some more on this thing of beauty that we won't see in the states.
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Old 10-31-2012, 06:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lminette View Post
Not true (at least on the diesel front). It's the fact that diesels are much harder to certify for US emissions and importing them is more expensive so basically they don't think that people will pay the extra chedder (2-3k) for them. I'm hoping that Mazda bringing their Skyactiv diesels here will serve as a push for Subaru to.
There are other manufacturers who import diesel cars in the USA. Make no mistake, SOA could have the diesel here if they "lobbied" for it like the other manufacturers. Do you think Suby's diesel burns worse than say VW's diesel?
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Old 10-31-2012, 07:07 PM   #13
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Not saying it does and I understand there are others here that do however I believe the consensus is that Subaru would price themselves out of the market with diesels. The exchange rate of the yen also has something to do with it which is something the euro's don't have to worry about. Who really knows if that's the reason but that is the feeling I get. Maybe if they start manufacturing more vehicles here it'll be a different story.
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Old 10-31-2012, 07:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lminette View Post
Not saying it does and I understand there are others here that do however I believe the consensus is that Subaru would price themselves out of the market with diesels. The exchange rate of the yen also has something to do with it which is something the euro's don't have to worry about. Who really knows if that's the reason but that is the feeling I get. Maybe if they start manufacturing more vehicles here it'll be a different story.

But SIA is building an engine manufacturing plant; so, they could make it here. I do agree they would probably price them badly though.
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Old 10-31-2012, 07:14 PM   #15
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Well if that is the case then maybe things will change. As them being built here would help negate some of the exchange rate issues currently existing. We can only hope.
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Old 10-31-2012, 08:34 PM   #16
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Every time I see a picture of a JDM Legacy wagon, I become a sad banana.
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Old 10-31-2012, 09:17 PM   #17
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Legacy STI Wagon!

This so uncool daddy wants!
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Old 10-31-2012, 09:27 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyer Subaru View Post
What the? I thought everyone said that they couldn't build an NA STi?
Unless you are just being ironic, prepare to be stunned again.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2426956

This sounds credible, and in line with several sources we've seen in the last six months. 2014 BRZ STI, more power, lighter, stiffer...no turbo.

And I know, there are a hundred rational reasons why a 7 passenger station wagon would not sell here, but what the heck. They should replace the Tribeca with this.
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Old 10-31-2012, 10:03 PM   #19
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Is it me or does the hood bulge out more(or is this indeed an NA engine)? Could this tS be using louvers to scoop the air onto the TMIC(like the diesel XV)?

Legacy DIT
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Old 10-31-2012, 10:07 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyer Subaru View Post
If you look up you can see tS X NA. If my engrishy is as strong as I think it is, this statement says that the new tS will be NA. Not turbo'd.

The DIT is already being used in the Legacy Sedan and Wagon trims. These cars have a hood scoop to feed the tmic. The tS above doesn't have a hood scoop.

Again leading me to believe that it will be NA.

No one can believe that STi would ever put out an NA model.
Doesn't the new, as yet unreleased, 2014 Forester have a turbo without a hoodscoop?
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Old 10-31-2012, 10:24 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyer Subaru View Post
What the? I thought everyone said that they couldn't build an NA STi?
It's not an STI.

Here's the previous Legacy tS. Note it's not a power upgrade, it's a handling upgrade. Meant to be a GT with STI-boosted handling characteristics. (Of course, it was already based on a turbo model, though.) "With the tS, STI wanted to show that tuning does not have to always mean more power."
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...s/viewall.html
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Old 11-01-2012, 12:46 PM   #22
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I take issue with this: "... tuning does not have to always mean more power."
Americans love power. If they expect to sell it here, it'll need a power bump.
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Old 11-01-2012, 02:11 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sub!eDr!ver
I take issue with this: "... tuning does not have to always mean more power."
Americans love power. If they expect to sell it here, it'll need a power bump.
The Legacy tS won't be coming to the States, and I think the BRZ kind of makes your claim look baseless.
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Old 11-01-2012, 03:32 PM   #24
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Not at all baseless. 200hp is actually quite a bit for a car in the BRZ's class. Wasn't the Miata selling well with 115hp at first, then up to 133hp? Comparatively, the BRZ is over-powered, which is one of the reasons why it's selling well. Americans like power.

Even though it has 50% more power than the Miata, people are still saying it should have more power. This underscores my point.

Also, the BRZ STI version is rumored to have at least 230hp, or 250hp, or 300hp (depending on which rumor you believe - I'm leaning towards 230).
Another case in point where an STI version has more power than the version on which it's based.
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:25 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sub!eDr!ver View Post
Not at all baseless. 200hp is actually quite a bit for a car in the BRZ's class. Wasn't the Miata selling well with 115hp at first, then up to 133hp? Comparatively, the BRZ is over-powered, which is one of the reasons why it's selling well. Americans like power.

Even though it has 50% more power than the Miata, people are still saying it should have more power. This underscores my point.

Also, the BRZ STI version is rumored to have at least 230hp, or 250hp, or 300hp (depending on which rumor you believe - I'm leaning towards 230).
Another case in point where an STI version has more power than the version on which it's based.
NB Miatas have 140+ horsepower, and the earlier ones weigh under 2500lbs.

NC Miatas weigh a bit more, and have a little more power from the MZR engine, even if not 200... but still weigh less than 2900lbs.


And a bit of power reserve isn't harmful, especially in wide-open spaces, which a fair number of Americans live in.

Urban congestion and short distances of high-speed highways for urban people who don't drive at 65+ mph for hours in traffic, is fine with less power.

A lot of time on high speed highways, in interstate-highway traffic... especially with avoidance maneuvers at those speeds... more power on tap really is better, especially not having to weight 3-5 seconds for it to start kicking in.

Just speaking from experience, there is a reason that a 230hp 3.3 H6 with better low-end torque and a healthy horsepower curve, due to displacement, or a 250+ hp turbo 4 with much better on-boost power, are easier to drive on the interstate, in high-speed traffic, than a 2400lb, 144hp Miata that has to down-shift to do ANYTHING resembling acceleration, and gets blown around by the aerodynamic wake of much larger vehicles.


68mph is pretty much 100ft/sec. Every second waiting for acceleration is 100 feet traveled, and a tail-gater coming up at 80mph, is *closing* at nearly 20 feet per second.

Sometimes it is nice to overcome that, and start opening that distance in less than 3 seconds. 68 to 80+ mph for a short burst, in less than 3 seconds takes a substantial amount of horsepower in 5th or 6th gear, probably a fair amount even in 4th.

Those numbers don't really occur on city streets, or lower-speed roads, and the gear ratios between 2nd and 4th are more conducive, with higher torque multiplication ratios than 1:1 or <1:1 for overdrive.

Less mass and better aerodynamics does help... but you still have to have a fair amount of power on tap, and if the engine is peaky, you end up doing a lot more down-shifting, and then re-up shifting when done.


So, yes. I like more power. More than 150. More than 200. Depending on the mass of the car... maybe even more than 300hp.

I like a car that can do what I command it to do, exactly when I tell it to, and sometimes that is to accelerate, with no more than one down-shift, and perhaps without one... from 65-85mph, on demand, in less than 3 seconds.

That is no more complex a maneuver than getting away from a tail-gater when merging to the alternate lane on the interstate is already blocked by a third vehicle.

Or a tail-gater closing on you when you are behind another vehicle, where a lane change and acceleration combined would evade, and still allow the most forward vehicle to accelerate and avoid the tail-gater as well.

A vehicle that cannot accelerate to evade like that... is a safety risk, IMHO, if the tail-gater is not paying attention, or is is a complete jerk to risk impact.

It doesn't matter that a resulting accident would be the tail-gater's fault... it is still an accident, quite possibly an injury, perhaps even lethal if the circumstances go especially wrong, to me or my passengers, that could be avoided simply with prompt acceleration, and actively defensive driving.

I hope the BRZ/FRS can pull that move. Maybe it can. Miata is enough of a risk for not being able to, that we usually don't take it on trips that involve the interstate very much. Yet our 144hp Miata seems briskly quick at lower speeds, in lower gears, and more responsive at lower speeds than our larger Subarus.

I have my doubts as to whether the new crop of FB20 powered base model Subarus, like Impreza or XV would be able to. Barely more horsepower than our 99 Miata, and probably 600-900lbs more weight, and more frontal area induced drag.

That is why I say that a 150hp XV Crosstrek stats seem under-powered, even if it seems to drive just fine on surface streets to those who have test driven it.

That is why I say that a 300+ hp EZ-engined BRZ/FRS would be even better than a 200hp FA20 version... and maybe even an affordable-performance game-changer. FA20DIT would be no slouch either... but turbo complication and plumbing is not much difference than an EZ engine that is barely 2 inches longer, no wider, and no taller than the EJ or FA/FB flat 4s, but doesn't have turbos, plumbing, and intercoolers involved. Someone recently mentioned that a BP Subaru Outback EZ30R and similarly configured XT EJ255 turbo... the XT actually weighed a few pounds more than the H6. A tuned DI H6 that isn't coddling a delicate 5EAT gearbox is capable of more output than a DIT H4, if other brands' DI-V6 and DI-turbo 2.0L I4 numbers bear any resemblance to their Subaru boxer counterparts' potential.

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 11-01-2012 at 05:32 PM.
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