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Old 08-22-2002, 01:27 AM   #1
WagonRX
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Default Only 0.3 Reduction In ET's with new torque converter ?

My previous best:

60' 2.186
ET 14.889
MPH 90.62

New Best Time with new T/C:

60' 1.985
ET 14.592
MPH 90.92

My mods:

Vishnu Stage 0 with custom dyno mapping
ScoobySports Downpipe and 3rd Cat Eliminator
Samco I/C hoses
ProTorque T/C

I know that some were reporting ET's lower by a whole second but I didn't get those gains. Also, my 60's aren't at 1.8 yet. I also see that my MPH hassn't gone up a whole lot. I can get the engine to stall @4,200 rpm's. Any ideas why I'm not getting better times?
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Old 08-22-2002, 06:22 AM   #2
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I am no expert on drag racing, but the 60' times were improved nicely. I think those 1.8 60 foot times are with 5MT Imprezas.
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Old 08-22-2002, 12:40 PM   #3
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I think there are several 1.8 60' times on AT's...do a search someone posted how he does it (1.8's every time) on his 4eat.

I know Jorge has a 4EAT maybe ask him.
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Old 08-22-2002, 07:35 PM   #4
michael parisi
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when you race keep the car in 3rd instead of drive. this will keep revs up. also don't look at rpm on your launch, watch your boost gauge. autos will hold boost on a launch unlike sticks. when i had the stock turbo i'd launch the car at 1.1 bar. if i did this in drive the front wheels would cut loose, but when in 3rd all four wheels would go. the rear would kick out to the drivers side and i would get front wheel-hop. this wasn't good for racing, but it put on a show. i still have a stock T/C but with the vf30 launches are in the past. on a cool day, if powerbrake long enough i can launch at 1.0 bar. i was running 13.4's a year ago with just a turbo back and a superchip. people called me a liar, so i don't post often. but if you go to the tri-state forum and talk to the sqc guys they'll tell you about my ride. i'm a 12sec auto, but i don't get into the i-club bull****. p.s mods are cai,up-pipe,plugs,turboback,vf30,superchip,hks ssq bov and some other little tricks. No NOS!!!
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Old 08-22-2002, 07:53 PM   #5
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WagonRX: what RPMs were you launching at? Did you reach the full 4100rpm stall? And like Michael said, keep it in 3, don't bother trying to shift manually. Other factors: tranny temp - it should be warmed up as in normal driving, but if you do back-to-back runs, it may get too hot (Rifts blew his diff doing 3 runs in 15 minutes). So cool-down is important.

And Michael: congrats on the 12-second auto! Sure there's sometimes BS on the i-club, but us 4EAT guys just enjoy seeing how far we can go. Post your times so we can know what to shoot for.

BTW, under good conditions, I can pull 1.8x 60's all day. Best is 1.810.

Padre
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Old 08-22-2002, 09:24 PM   #6
Kevin Thomas
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Default Re: Only 0.3 Reduction In ET's with new torque converter ?

Quote:
Originally posted by WagonRX
My previous best:

60' 2.186
ET 14.889
MPH 90.62

New Best Time with new T/C:

60' 1.985
ET 14.592
MPH 90.92

You managed to get a 2.186 with a stock torque converter? That's damn good! And really strange. ???? Running 2.1 60ft times with a stock torque converter (especially a turbo car not in it's powerband) is NOT a common occurence. 2.2's yes but..... You are one bad mofo!
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Old 08-23-2002, 08:14 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sordid Philosopher
I think there are several 1.8 60' times on AT's...do a search someone posted how he does it (1.8's every time) on his 4eat.

I know Jorge has a 4EAT maybe ask him.
Jorge had pulled a mid 1.7 60 ft. just before his center diff broke... !!

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=233322
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Old 08-23-2002, 11:08 AM   #8
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Padre,
I am able to reach full stall IIRC @ 4,200 RPM's . I launch in 3rd gear. My trans temp was below 150F after waiting two hours between runs (300+ cars that night).

Michael,
Great times. Congrats !

Kevin,
I guess my times aren't that bad but I was hoping for a least 1/2 a second.

Chris,
Thanks for the warning. I'll make sure to watch the trans temp.

Thanks guys for the info and assistance. I'll be trying the T/C lock-up trick for maybe a tenth or two next week but it seems like a bigger turbo is needed to get me into the 13's
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Old 08-23-2002, 12:03 PM   #9
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Default

Quote:
Originally posted by michael parisi
when you race keep the car in 3rd instead of drive. this will keep revs up. also don't look at rpm on your launch, watch your boost gauge. autos will hold boost on a launch unlike sticks. when i had the stock turbo i'd launch the car at 1.1 bar. if i did this in drive the front wheels would cut loose, but when in 3rd all four wheels would go. the rear would kick out to the drivers side and i would get front wheel-hop. this wasn't good for racing, but it put on a show. i still have a stock T/C but with the vf30 launches are in the past. on a cool day, if powerbrake long enough i can launch at 1.0 bar. i was running 13.4's a year ago with just a turbo back and a superchip. people called me a liar, so i don't post often. but if you go to the tri-state forum and talk to the sqc guys they'll tell you about my ride. i'm a 12sec auto, but i don't get into the i-club bull****. p.s mods are cai,up-pipe,plugs,turboback,vf30,superchip,hks ssq bov and some other little tricks. No NOS!!!
I'd STILL love to see the proof on that one... Using every single trick in the book I couldn't even break into the 12's, and god knows I have 60 foots that only NOS will produce on a stock converter... ESPECIALLY with no "programmable" engine management.

Sorry...

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com
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Old 08-24-2002, 12:33 AM   #10
michael parisi
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this is how the last arguement started when i ran 13.47. because i didn't post a time slip. i dont save time slips because they are garbage after a run. i've only ran at my local 4 times. when i first got the car, 14.9 best time. when i got a turboback, s-afc and avcr,14.2 best time at 18psi. next a 13.47 at 16psi. i sold my avcr and afc and got a mbc and the superchip of u.k. peop;e have been anoying me to run again after getting the vf30,up-pipe and all the other garbage. this was because i killed a porsche 4s, that runs a solid13.0-13.1 as well as a friends 12 sec gtp. so i ran. the slip said 12.89, the bored said 12.73. i dont know which is right and i dont care. i'm at a advantage because on long island, N.Y. our track is below sealevel. unfair? maybe, but thats not my fault. a little advice that helped me. spend some time with a porsche club. it will pay off. btw it's not what you do at the track, but what you do on the street that counts. p.s. i also never broke anything on car!
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Old 08-24-2002, 10:55 AM   #11
RiftsWRX
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Quote:
Originally posted by michael parisi
this is how the last arguement started when i ran 13.47. because i didn't post a time slip. i dont save time slips because they are garbage after a run. i've only ran at my local 4 times. when i first got the car, 14.9 best time. when i got a turboback, s-afc and avcr,14.2 best time at 18psi. next a 13.47 at 16psi. i sold my avcr and afc and got a mbc and the superchip of u.k. peop;e have been anoying me to run again after getting the vf30,up-pipe and all the other garbage. this was because i killed a porsche 4s, that runs a solid13.0-13.1 as well as a friends 12 sec gtp. so i ran. the slip said 12.89, the bored said 12.73. i dont know which is right and i dont care. i'm at a advantage because on long island, N.Y. our track is below sealevel. unfair? maybe, but thats not my fault. a little advice that helped me. spend some time with a porsche club. it will pay off. btw it's not what you do at the track, but what you do on the street that counts. p.s. i also never broke anything on car!
It's HARDLY an arguement in my eyes... understand something here and now... (I sound like a broken record from our LAST conversation)

I HAVE NO EGO HERE TO BRUISE!

I WANT to congratulate you, it's just HARD to understand how YOUR ONE CAR can out average the combined efforts of 3 completely different tuners across the country, running all state of the art parts and engine managements, with every NHRA/IHRA trick in the book when it comes to automatic transmissions.... and you beat us all by a WIIIIIIDE margin..

I know FIRST HAND what it took to get to 13.0 and it took a lot.

Please... help us understand.

A: I have a 4100 RPM stall converter that netted me a 1.78 60 foot prior to the break.

B: A valve body job which results in SIGNIFICANTLY faster shifts easily making up half a tenth to a tenth.

C: A locked converter from 35MPH to 115MPH which results in ZERO drive line loss, where you're suffering anywhere from 3-5% right off the top, with the stock converter.

D: Tuned engine management putting out 278 to the wheels on 93 octane.... and THAT run still netted me 13.4's before I started working on my race gas map which dropped me 4 tenths and almost 4 MPH... <----------- that is HUGE increases in power... so I was pushing well over 310 WHP and 300 lb/ft when the diff went!

E: UBER intercooling (3 times the size of the stock one)

F: upgraded engine, oil, and trans cooling systems (cause you CAN run more timing before det if you can keep the heads cool)

G: water spray systems which kept the IC temps UNDER 80 degrees

H: a VF34 which is a much more efficient turbo then the 30, running 4 PSI more then you were running at 12.8...

What track did you run at? I was at Great Lakes Dragaway in Union Grove, WI. It's an NHRA santioned and commisioned track. So their gear is checked several times a year to be accurate.

I really REALLY am not trying to call BS on you man... there are TRULY too few automatics for us to be calling BS, and I REALLY want to see us push forward. But help me/us understand how a handful of simple boltons can outpower (by a WIDE margin) a properly tuned car pushing almost 105 MPH traps?

Trap speed is an indication of HP, so forget the 12.89 and my 13.01 for now. What did you trap in the 1/8th and the 1/4. I was at almost 83 MPH in the 1/8th and almost 105 in the 1/4. Plus, there is ONE confirmed 12 second automatic and that is RobPA, and he IS spraying with the other stuff we have done to our cars. Our gearing puts us at an extreme loss when compared to a 5 speed. We need to put out 30-40% more power just to keep up with a 5 speed due to gearing alone.

Also, the only real skeptiscism I have is because people have TRIED the superchips here prior to the unichip craze and no one got even to within 60% of the tuned potential of even the unicrap.

Even with a dyno tuned unichip (which is 40% better then the best "proven" superchip scenario) I still was in the mid 13's...

It's just pure logic and deduction.

A: Your lying about your times
B: Your lying about your mods
C: Your track is daft

But there is NO NO NO way:
Quote:
cai,up-pipe,plugs,turboback,vf30,superchip,hks ssq bov and some other little tricks. No NOS!!!
is running a 12.89, ESPECIALLY on the stock converter and no nitrous.

What are you running 15" rims with smaller sidewalls changing your final drive overall?

Are you in a fully interiored car? If you told me you have a tube chassied, gutted, WRX with CF body work, running custom final drives, and you weigh 110lbs.... well of course I'd believe your running a 12.89.

But you are not sharing a LOT if that is ALL you've done. If that's the case, hey... Props... but I wanna see what someone can do with a FULLY STREETABLE, creature comforted car....

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com
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Old 08-24-2002, 03:48 PM   #12
michael parisi
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jorge, first let me say i respect you! i follow your progress and use you as a guide line. second , i'm not the only auto on long island running 12 secs. ther are two others, one has a stock turbo that's ported. he runs insane boost and doesn't care if his engine goes. he's benn running this way for about a year now. the second car is a silver wagon with a similar set-up as me. they both have a stock T/C. the wagon has some sort of lock-out device for his t/c. he got the idea from grand national guys. we all have the superchip! but i can run 1.4-1.5bar and max my egt's at 1320-1350 degrees faren. i run the car pig rich. i have stock rims w/225/50zr's. maybe the track sucks. but i think you have too much going on. simplicity is the key. i also think everyone advances timing too much. it's not a smallblock chevy. talk to dsm, rx-7 and supra guy's. ask what timing they're running. you'ld be suprised. i know a subaru mechanic who has a 93 rx-7. he has a power fc and an exhaust. ran 11.90 at E-town. lets timing retard to 10 degrees up top. several i-clubers were there so it's not b.s. i know what my car can do and can't do. i can't powerbrake to often because i know the T/C wont last. there are a lot of wrx owners who hate i-club and dont post times or mods. my two auto friends are an example. like i said i have a lot of respect for you(especially any one who can shut al up) i just think you have too much on your plate and you launch too high. i bet your car shifts out of first before you hit the 60' mark. your not utilizing yopur gearing properly. where auto's we don't need a hich rpm launch. we hold boost! you got a great 60'. mine sucks but, my car makes it up up-top. because of my timing. my car will shift past redline every gear. when i try for advanced timing. my car comes out harder but dies up-top. it feels like the car is being held back. just try talking to the aboved mentioned groups. you have nothing to lose. maybe a little timing p.s. if i'm wrong about the timing on your car i apollogize. last time i saw your data logs, timing was high. also talk to wrxetreme. i think thats his screen name. i've seen him run a 13.29 and consistent 13.3's. i crushed him. the race was over before i hit 60.
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Old 08-24-2002, 10:39 PM   #13
RiftsWRX
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I guess if your not going to share the old saying "I'll have to see it (or race it) to believe it!" applies here.

Being a DSM guy, I know quite well what your talking about. But understand... 83MPH 1/8 miles...... That's ruled out a bunch of things. A: timing as an issue... B: Gearing C: slip D: pretty much anything.

I have the gearing and hook up and power to that on the low end.

105 MPH on the top end shows that I'm continuing that same HP trend up top.

Difference between me running 13.0 and a 12.7 with that trap and 60 ft is pure gearing.

I can't continue this with you. For over a year and a half I've touched, felt, seen, smelt, bled, and wrenched attempting to prove and pave on the automatic. For every mile stone set there has been TONS of information for people to indulge in and discuss.

I'm an analytical person who works with logic. Logic is derrived from factual analysis and deduction.

You've supplied no facts, nothing concrete, nothing but estimation, numbers and figures which you have conceded were debatable (your time slips not matching the boards). When asked technical questions; direct questions, you've offered little in the way of an appropriate response.

I thank you for your support of what I've done. But I can't extend you the same respect, as much as I'd like too, when your facts and fantasies reside in a world of smoking mirrors. Sorry

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com
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Old 08-25-2002, 01:19 AM   #14
WRX Joe
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Hey - Michael Parisi,
Glad to hear your cars that fast. Where on the island are you ?
Are you the guy that knows Brad with " The T type " and CJ.
He told me he was talking to some one with a real fast WRX auto..
We were working on figuring out how my car works since I just got the Delta dash. I wanted to see what you guys did , if you don't mind , because I've been hang out with brad and he make you feel the need for speed. If you know brad, you'll know what I mean..... Let me know if that you...............Thanks...............Joe
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Old 08-25-2002, 02:33 AM   #15
michael parisi
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wrx joe, i have no idea who brad is or cj. i'm wondering if you are the yellow auto i saw at baldhill? and to jorge, i think you may be worse than al well, at least you can spell. i still haven't met a subaru owner who wasn't a geek. i should have bought a camaro.
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Old 08-25-2002, 04:13 AM   #16
WagonRX
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Come on guys. Time out for both of you. This post has gone way off subject. Interesting as it's getting, lets all stop the finger pointing .

I do have a question for Jorge. When do you or maybe I shoud say, How do you use the T/C lock-up. I just did this mod and so far it's working but just trying to extract every little bit to get those ET's down.
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Old 08-25-2002, 09:05 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by WagonRX
I do have a question for Jorge. When do you or maybe I shoud say, How do you use the T/C lock-up. I just did this mod and so far it's working but just trying to extract every little bit to get those ET's down.
I've tried it two ways: 1) lock it right after the shift, and 2) not locking it until 5200-5500rpm. This is locking in both 2nd and 3rd gear and unlocking for the shifts, of course.

In the first case, I noticed improved traps. In the second case, I noticed improved ETs.

The domestic auto guys advise not locking it till after the "coupling point", which practically is the point where when you lock it, the rpms don't drop. E.g. if you lock it at 5200 you may notice it drop to 5000. Whereas if you lock it at 5500, it stays there. Just experiment.

On occasion, I've accidently left it on during the shift. A little harsher, but doesn't seem to harm it. So don't panic if you leave it on, just don't do it often.

Padre
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Old 08-25-2002, 12:06 PM   #18
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Quote:
[i]and to jorge, i think you may be worse than al well, at least you can spell. i still haven't met a subaru owner who wasn't a geek. i should have bought a camaro. [/b]
Hardly helps your case.... but oh well...

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
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Old 08-25-2002, 04:34 PM   #19
Rich L
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Lightbulb Need faster times?

WagonRX and friends.

There are ways to get better times from your torque converter... specifically by doing alot homework before you get one.

There are many variables you should consider before picking a TC.

The the most typical factors ppl consider first is:
The power band of the motor, total hp/torque output of the motor vs the wieght of the car.

Simply put:
higher hp output can raise your stall speed, and higher wieght can also increase your stall speed (rpm level). Higher stall speeds wont necessarily translate into better times.

But there are other considerations to put toward your specific application that can also affect performance.

The size of the TC and angle of the TC vanes are very important.
Just as in a turbo. The size of the TC can affect how fast the tranny fluid gets moving, and how effieciently it stays moving.

You best bet is to look around and see what other ppl have done and had success with. Try a Grand National enthusiast board or website, where most ppl are pretty knowlegable able TC's

-Good luck
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Old 08-25-2002, 09:44 PM   #20
michael parisi
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to jorge, i hope that you know i'm just joking with you! and no one is worse than al!
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