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Old 09-04-2002, 10:30 PM   #51
subysouth
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Default yep

cardin is right.

Again I donít know why they are termed this way, but the R160 rear assembly has attached the 170mm rear hand/parking brake and the R180 rear assembly has attached the 190mm rear hand/parking brake. 170 and 190mm are the size of the brake drums included in the rear rotors in question.

Again, relatively speaking, the R180 assembly/190mm rear brake is rare. All US Subarus thus far since 1990(so equipped) have come with the R160 rear assembly/170mm rear hand brake. AFAIK, the 190mm parking brake only came on 2pot rear caliper equipped 2001+ WRX-Stis with either STi or Brembo 2pots.

You can get the 290x18mm rear rotor equipped with either the 170 or 190mm hand brake drum, with the 170mm rear brake being the one useful to us(unless you just have a wild idea to try for the 190mm-can't think of why tho.)

A couple of things I am curious about with reference to the R180 rear assemblies/190mm rear parking brakes.

1. Do the R180 rear assemblies use a larger diameter drive axle?

2. Do they use the same backing plate as the 170mm 2pot backing plate. Theoretically, Subaru could have just made the parking brake shoe frames 10mm larger and used the same attachment points as the 170mm shoes.


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Old 09-05-2002, 02:54 PM   #52
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Quote:
1. Do the R180 rear assemblies use a larger diameter drive axle?
afaik yes

2 i dunno

so what you have found is that there is yet another caliper (or is it just the bracket) that is on gtb/b4 the will accomidate the 290x18x170 vented rotor and will bolt on using the 5.75 spaced holes and the existing parking brake...

side thought same caliper as legacy trubo, just a differnt bracket?


so did the pre 2001 STIs have the 190 parking brake?

thinking out loud..
so i guess ther is really 3 rear brake rotors for the STIs
290x18x170 (pre 2001 sti) used with either two pots that will requires r180 compateble hubs or 1 pots from GTB/B4 will not
290x18x190 (post 2001 sti)2 pot
316x20x190 (post 2001 sti w/ brembo option)





fwiw i am working on a faq post for suspension/ brakes fourms and knowlage for the purple car

Last edited by Jaxx; 09-05-2002 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 09-05-2002, 04:15 PM   #53
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Default Jaxx, lets see

Quote:
so what you have found is that there is yet another caliper (or is it just the bracket) that is on gtb/b4 the will accomidate the 290x18x170 vented rotor and will bolt on using the 5.75 spaced holes and the existing parking brake...
What I have found is wider caliper and caliper bracket set which will indeed accomodate the 290x18mm(170) rotor and I believe bolt right to my existing backing plate.

Quote:
side thought same caliper as legacy trubo, just a differnt bracket?
With out going into a long revision, if you read this thread you will find a thread I linked in a post above in which I tried this same approach and failed. Short answer - nope.

Quote:
so did the pre 2001 STIs have the 190 parking brake?
AFAIK 2001 is the first year of the R180/190mm parking brake.

Quote:
so i guess ther is really 3 rear brake rotors for the STIs
You have to be careful on the use of the term STi. When I use the term STi as a noun I am intending a special edition of the WRX. When I use STi as an adjective, I mean any part made by STi(racing parts division) that could be installed on almost any Subaru. You are using it as noun here then including the GT-B etc. in your further explanation. I dont consider a GT-B an STi, if you follow me. An STi is a modded WRX. There are also several different versions of STis, WRX-STi, STi-RA, STi-SE, etc.

I think it is simpler to step back and say what rotors, calipers, etc. are installed on all Subarus and try to pick the best combination you can for the money. For instance, in USDM Subarus, the best rear rotor on a Subaru happens to be on a Legacy, the 290x10mm(170.) Depending on what year your Subaru is, this can be an inexpensive excellent upgrade. Worldwide, the best rear rotor on a Subaru is the 316x20mm(190) thats comes on the Brembo-equipped WRX-STi-SE 2001+. Is this a rotor that could be reasonably placed on a USDM Subaru? IMO no. There is a grocery list of parts that would need to be replaced.

Now that that is cleared up.


Quote:
290x18x170 (pre 2001 sti) used with either two pots that will requires r180 compateble hubs or 1 pots from GTB/B4 will not
You are qouting a rotor that requires the R160/170mm parking brake and then saying it has to be used with the R180 assembly. Typos = confusion. AFAIK, again the R180/190mm parking brake rears didnt appear until 2001, so pre-2001 R180 is an impossibility. If in your statement you replaced R180 with R160 it would be correct. The GT-Bs have the R160 hubs as well.

Quote:
290x18x190 (post 2001 sti)2 pot
Correct except post 2001 kinda implies excluding the year 2001, 2001+ might be a better description.

Quote:
316x20x190 (post 2001 sti w/ brembo option)
Correct again except for above comment and you might say Brembo 2pot rear in the description.

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Old 09-06-2002, 12:23 PM   #54
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Default Sorry, again

I just want to make sure of this and I think subysouth is the one to help.

I thought that the R160 diff assembly was only available hear since MY 2000? The R160 being the linited slip version of the regular diffs that have been hear since 1990.

Is this correct or do I just have the terms and designations wrong.

Also, if I am dragging this way of topic, please tell me to be quiet!
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Old 09-06-2002, 12:41 PM   #55
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Default Cardin

I wish I could answer that positively, but the info I have gandered about the rear assemblies is second hand.

Example:
Quote:
Subaru used both open and LSD R160 diffs in their cars beginning in ~1986. Almost all of the diffs (both LSD and Non-LSD) have a gold foil sticker on the outside of the case cover stating both the ratio (i.e. 3.70, 3.90, 4,11) and whether it is LSD (it says "LSD" on the foil).
The full implication of the R160 and R180 names is not known to me.

I do know that the parking brakes are either 170 or 190mm.

I believe all the post 1990 US Subarus(rear disc equipped) use essentially the same rear hub with the 170mm parking brake. I believe the drive axles are also the same diameter. Whether they are all designated R160s, I am not postive.

AFAIK, the R180 does appear first in 2001. I believe it is LSD and uses larger axles as well and is equipped with the 190mm parking brake.

subysouth

edit: edited for clarity

Last edited by subysouth; 09-06-2002 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 09-06-2002, 03:06 PM   #56
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Finally got word that my set of 4/2 pot brakes/rotors that are a takeoff of the 2001 STi (right, subysouth?) have shipped via priority from Japan. Should be here within a week or so.

Hopefully I will be able to help answer some of the outstanding questions/issues related to the larger (180/190mm) handbrake and compatability issues as they relate to our USDM BG GTs.

I'll keep y'all posted on that progress and I'll post millions of pics.

-S
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Old 09-06-2002, 04:36 PM   #57
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Default Sounds great Steve

Quote:
Finally got word that my set of 4/2 pot brakes/rotors that are a takeoff of the 2001 STi (right, subysouth?)
Thats my story and I'm sticking with it

can't wait for pics.

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Old 09-10-2002, 12:58 PM   #58
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i think i see where the proublem is

Quote:
AFAIK, the R180 does appear first in 2001. I believe it is LSD and uses larger axles as well and is equipped with the 190mm parking brake.
this is wrong

i believe that type R and type RAs come with the r180 at least as far back as version 4
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Old 09-10-2002, 03:15 PM   #59
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Default Jaxx

That could well be, as I said AFAIK, 2001+. I am positive they were available in 2001, I have no concrete verification before that. I believe the R180 was on the 22b, which is a MY98 vehicle. This inclines me to think they were available at least back to 98, but the only evidence that supports this is a pick of a 22b rear setup, no documetation, no other pre-2001 STis clearly using this, etc.

What problem do you think that creates? As all the USDM Subarus(since at least 1990) use the R160 rear assembly/170mm rear hand brake. It really is only a matter of picking parts applicable to our cars. If someone in the US has a the idea to go to the R180 rear assembly, I could give them some high probability advice as to what they would need to pull this off, but I would wonder why they would want to do this. I don't think Crazy Ken does and I know I dont want to change rear assemblies. I am interested in improved brakes.

The one thing that Steve(monovich) may soon be able to answer for us is this: Are the 2pot backing plates from the R160 and R180 rear assemblies the same? They could be. Steve is getting what I believe to be(based on pics he has shown me) a R180 hubs-out rear 2pot setup(along with 4pot fronts.) He's taking one for the team, in terms of trying the untried.

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Old 09-10-2002, 04:22 PM   #60
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ah more enlightment perhaps its my misuse of the terms hubs vs knuckels


after more serching
seems that WRX RA STIs had the r180s but the WRX RA did not
the svx also had a r180 so the knuckels, which are differnt
(with the larger holes for bigger axels) are avaiable in the us there was a discussion that you could bolt on a 300z rear diff if you changed the ring/pinion gears and found axels that fit and used svx knuckles but i don't think that any on had done this read below

i am confused about the talk of backing plate ... it was my understanding that the caliper bracket bolted in to the knuckle and the backing plate/ dust shield is there just to protect the rotor from rocks... and that the bolt spacing on the r180 knuckel is differnt than that of the r160 knuckel
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Old 09-10-2002, 05:36 PM   #61
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Default no

Actually I could have been a little clearer there. Steve is in fact getting a set which includes hubs, knuckles, parking brake internals, rotors, calipers and pads. Hubs-out might have been a little unclear.

The rear calipers are indeed attached to a heavy steel backing plate(with an attached light steel dust shield at its perimeter.) This backing plate is attached to the knuckle. The hub is pressed through the knuckle. The hub has the splines the drive axles slide through to deliver power ultimately to the rear wheels.

I could go on with details here, but I am still unclear what your specific problem/idea is? You want to use a 300z rear assembly on a Subaru?

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Old 09-10-2002, 05:43 PM   #62
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Default further

Quote:
and that the bolt spacing on the r180 knuckel is differnt than that of the r160 knuckel
If you are referring to the bolt spacing to attach the backing plate to the knuckle - maybe, maybe not. Subaru tends to be efficient in their designs, it would save them money if the same plate could be used on both assemblies.

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Old 09-10-2002, 09:23 PM   #63
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Well, Subaru makes a backing plate for the 2 pot rear calliper that fits on the R160 and that is all you need to fit them to a US Rex.
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Old 09-11-2002, 09:10 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by anotherB4
Well, Subaru makes a backing plate for the 2 pot rear calliper that fits on the R160 and that is all you need to fit them to a US Rex.
I don't suppose it would be too much to get a part # for that?
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Old 09-11-2002, 01:38 PM   #65
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i think things here are finnaly staring to gel for me
so

backing plates
266 w/ 5.75 spacing for r160 standard usdm
290 w/ 5.75 spacing for r160 >2k legacy
290 w/ 4.5 spacing for r160 for use with 2 pot rears w/r160
290 w/ 4.5 spacing for r180 for use with 2 pot rears w/r180

Last edited by Jaxx; 09-11-2002 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 09-11-2002, 03:34 PM   #66
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wow, this is so compllicated!

good stuff!
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Old 09-11-2002, 03:55 PM   #67
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here is rev .1 of the faq so far w/ referance to dba picts

front calipers
1 pot
2 pot version 1
2 pot version 2 came out in ~98-99 for impreza/forester 2000 for the legacy
caliper brackets for version 2 caliper
277x24 rs/<2k legacy
294x24 wrx/>2k legacy rotor 26225AE000
4 pot
brembo

front rotors
277x24 RS http://www.dba.com.au/forum/dba_648.pdf
294x24 WRX/2000+ legacy 2pot and 4pot http://www.dba.com.au/forum/dba_650.pdf
326x30 brembo http://www.dba.com.au/forum/dba_654.pdf


rear calipers
1 pot x10mm version 1
1 pot x10mm version 2 came out in ~98-99 for impreza/forester 2000 for the legacy
caliper brackets for version 2 caliper
to accomadate the 266x10 rotor
to accomadate the 290x10 rotor from the 2000+legacy 26625AE000
1 pot x18mm from the legacy turbo 91-94 (RH)26291AA100 (LH)26291AA110
2 pot
brembo

rear rotors (rotor diamater x thickeness x parking brake)
266x10x170 almost every disc brake since 1990 http://www.dba.com.au/forum/dba_644.pdf
266x18x170 from the legacy turbo 91-94 26310AA112 http://www.dba.com.au/forum/dba_649.pdf
290x10x170 from the 2000+ legacys 26700AE04A http://www.dba.com.au/forum/dba_657.pdf
290x18x170 from 2001+ non sti WRX for 2pot not usdm http://www.dba.com.au/forum/dba_653.pdf
316x20x190 from 2001+sti w brembo option http://www.dba.com.au/forum/dba_655.pdf

backing plates/hubs? welded on?
266 w/ 5.75 spacing for r160 standard usdm
290 w/ 5.75 spacing for r160 >2k legacy
290 w/ 4.5 spacing for r160 for use with 2 pot rears w/r160 (LH) 26655FA030 (RH) ????????
290 w/ 4.5 spacing for r180 for use with 2 pot rears w/r180


rear drum
yuck throw theses away

Last edited by Jaxx; 09-11-2002 at 04:30 PM.
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Old 09-11-2002, 06:04 PM   #68
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Default Jaxx

I also put together some notes and posted them in the brakes forum. I dont know if its what you would call a FAQ.

on your rear rotors section you left out 290x18(190mm) and the info on the 290x18x170mm is incorrect. I am postive of their installation on the 2000+ JDM et al, B4s and GT-Bs.

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Old 09-11-2002, 07:09 PM   #69
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brakes showed up today! They are sitting back at the office so I haven't seen 'em yet.

woo hoo!

will post pics later if I get a chance.

-S
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Old 09-11-2002, 11:35 PM   #70
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your saying
290x18x170 from 2001+ non sti WRX for 2pot not usdm http://www.dba.com.au/forum/dba_653.pdf
is incorrect ..

this is from a post by dba steve..that these are the brakes on the new gen wrx for the rest of the world other than the usa although he didn't say any thing abu them being a 2 pot ... now that i think about it...


yeah i am missing the 290x18x180 is this the two pot r180 rotor
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Old 09-12-2002, 02:05 AM   #71
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Question:

I've looked over the brakes and they have hubs, discs, calipers, backing plates, and brake lines... the whole kitchen sink. Could I just swap the hubs et.al. from my car and put these on?

-S
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Old 09-12-2002, 12:17 PM   #72
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Default Steve

Stage 1: check to see if the splined axle aperture through the hub is the same diameter as the one on your car. If yes, then check the knuckle mounting points. If both of these are the same all you would need to work out is the parking brake line. If it is not the same(unfortunately I dont think it will be,) youre gonna have to make a decision which way to go.

Option1: Complete the R180 rear assembly. $$$$

Option2: Maintain your R160/170mm rear assembly. Keep the rear calipers, pads and hopefully the backing plates. Purchase new rear rotors (290x18x170mm,) you currently should have 290x18x190mm. If the backing plate isnt applicable to the R160/170mm rear assembly, you will need to source a new 2pot R160 backing plates.

G/L and let us know how it goes.

subysouth
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Old 09-19-2002, 01:26 PM   #73
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FYI, I have a VERY EARLY 99 Impreza 2.5RS (bought October 1998 (2 days after it arrived and it was the first 99RS that dealer had received)). According to the plate on the door jam, it has a build date of 08/98.

My rear calipers look exactly like the 2nd pic.

Shane -- http://www.warpthree.com
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Old 09-19-2002, 04:34 PM   #74
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The second pic is a little misleading.

He did a rear caliper swap. He removed the calipers and bracket off his 2000 and installed the calipers and brackets of a Legacy turbo 90-94 to get the vented disks.

So in effect the two pics show the same brake system type (the older one).

I fear this may cause some confusion again.

I do know why I didn't see it before but, if you read his site, you'll see what he did.
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Old 09-19-2002, 04:40 PM   #75
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Default No cardin

That is Brian's(North Ursalia) stock setup with the exception of the cross-drilled rotor. If you are talking about later down the page, he does infact use a pick of the original system to show how the "completed" system should look. Brian admitted he just got lazy and didnt take the correct pic.

The "newer" caliper pic IS the newer caliper(non-stock rotor of course.)

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