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Old 07-29-2014, 04:58 PM   #1
KornShaDoW097
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Default Oil change after break in

So I just broke in my engine. I'm told 20-50 miles of using the break in oil is what is needed (amsoil)

I'm at that now. I looked around and found Subaru recommends 1-3k miles however I'm not sure about what exactly they do prior to release to the public.

However, I believe those engines might of been broken in for the 20-50 mile mark before sale.

Any fellow engine builders have XP on the very first oil change interval?

I'm thinking of putting in my synthetic today if the 50mi mark is a valid mark.

Also I use a vacuum pump for removing oil normally. But on the first change what method gets rid of the metal particles? Drain plug, warming up the oil and drain, vacuum pump, etc?

Thanks

Jon

2004 wrx 2.14L turbo
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Old 07-30-2014, 07:49 AM   #2
bluesubie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KornShaDoW097 View Post
So I just broke in my engine. I'm told 20-50 miles of using the break in oil is what is needed (amsoil)

I'm at that now. I looked around and found Subaru recommends 1-3k miles however I'm not sure about what exactly they do prior to release to the public.

However, I believe those engines might of been broken in for the 20-50 mile mark before sale.

Any fellow engine builders have XP on the very first oil change interval?

I'm thinking of putting in my synthetic today if the 50mi mark is a valid mark.

Also I use a vacuum pump for removing oil normally. But on the first change what method gets rid of the metal particles? Drain plug, warming up the oil and drain, vacuum pump, etc?

Thanks

Jon

2004 wrx 2.14L turbo

Listen to your builder. Not sure what you mean by Subaru recommended 1-3k miles since they do not make a 1k mile recommendation for anything.

Is that RP XP Racing oil? There are tons of recommendations out there on when to switch to synthetic in a built engine and it's best to follow the builders advice. The XP's additional ZDDP should be good for break-in.

But ALWAYS drain oil from the drain plug. Subaru advises to do this to remove deposits.

-Dennis


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Old 07-30-2014, 05:43 PM   #3
KornShaDoW097
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Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post

Listen to your builder. Not sure what you mean by Subaru recommended 1-3k miles since they do not make a 1k mile recommendation for anything.

Is that RP XP Racing oil? There are tons of recommendations out there on when to switch to synthetic in a built engine and it's best to follow the builders advice. The XP's additional ZDDP should be good for break-in.

But ALWAYS drain oil from the drain plug. Subaru advises to do this to remove deposits.

-Dennis

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I AM the builder.

Yea other forums like wrxtuner states that the fsm has break in stated as 1-3k miles for the first oil change. It's inconsistent.

Nah I switched off of RP since my last car, it's not that great based on lab testing. Might as well just get mobile 1, cheaper n better.

XP aka experience

I'm using amsoil... They told me 50miles and other builders said 20-50 on other sites mon-Subaru.

I already did it.

Used drain plug, microscopic metal was seen but they make it seem like there would be bigger pieces. The vac would of worker fine.
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Old 07-31-2014, 06:20 AM   #4
tomacGTi
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http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...light=break-in

There are a million engine break-in opinions though.

I would follow Dennis's oil change advice.
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Old 07-31-2014, 10:47 AM   #5
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oh dear god help us all
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Old 07-31-2014, 12:24 PM   #6
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Old 07-31-2014, 12:30 PM   #7
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LMAO @scotty
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Old 07-31-2014, 07:38 PM   #8
KornShaDoW097
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomacGTi View Post
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...light=break-in

There are a million engine break-in opinions though.

I would follow Dennis's oil change advice.
Thanks. That is a ton of wasted oil though. What he use like 20 quarts?

Mine blew out smoke at high rpm twice but I did a lot of 1/2, 2/3, gear runs before n after.

Had a leak from the rear or front seal, changed oil, it went away.
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Old 07-31-2014, 08:09 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by danny_d19 View Post
Thanks


This is what I used. But the oil change intervals are different based on where you get your info.

I just followed amsoils advice. 50miles break in oil and synthetic from then on.

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

I used that for break in.
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Old 07-31-2014, 08:11 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
oh dear god help us all
Lol

I guess there is just no way to know for sure about what works in this category without oil analysis and compression testing.
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Old 08-01-2014, 07:05 AM   #11
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So let me get this right. You built your engine but don't have a general idea of what you feel break in should be for your car that you built? Every situation is different.
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Old 08-01-2014, 09:09 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KornShaDoW097 View Post
Lol

I guess there is just no way to know for sure about what works in this category without oil analysis and compression testing.
I think lots of people are fooled by the random nature of the break-in phenomenon, resulting in all the lore surrounding it.

On my WRX, I changed the factory fill at 1,300 mi and spiked the subsequent fills with Liqui-Moly MOS2 additive. I did short fills until 5,000 miles. My WRX burns no oil. I ran my Honda Civic to 6,000+ mi on the factory fill and factory filter in accordance with the OM recommendation. It doesn't burn any oil either. Both cars got a "scientifically hard" break-in as suggested by Larry "hotrod" in my linked thread below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomacGTi View Post
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...light=break-in

There are a million engine break-in opinions though.

I would follow Dennis's oil change advice.
The best thread about break-in I've seen is this one. Posts by Larry "hotrod" being most important.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danny_d19 View Post
That article contains some decent advice, some nonsensical advice, and a bunch of received wisdom break-in lore. First of all, how are you supposed to know when you've applied 28% TPS? How do you calibrate your foot to that? Second "easy" is pretty relative. 28% TPS will result in 100% engine load at ~2,500 RPM, at least it does in my car. That means you'll be getting 80%+ of the max BMEP a N/A car is capable of, that's hardly a light load on the rings.

As to changing the oil frequently, I think that's way overblown. The oil circulates at close to 6 gallons per minute at cruising RPM. Since there's only about a gallon of oil in the engine, that means all the oil in the sump circulates through the engine every 10 seconds or so. The big pieces of metal are generated very soon after starting the engine for the first time, so even if you change the oil at 50 miles, those pieces have potentially circulated through the engine hundreds of times. In reality they're caught by the filter, and the filter has plenty of capacity for 7,500 miles worth of driving, so you're not going to clog it. If you must be OCD about it, change the filter at 50 miles, top up the oil and sleep well until at least 3,000 miles.
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Old 08-02-2014, 04:57 AM   #13
Uncle Scotty
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people do all sorts of stupid **** with engine oil

it is THE least understood fluid out there...other than that between a womans ears, anyway
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Old 08-02-2014, 08:15 AM   #14
KornShaDoW097
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpshumway View Post

I think lots of people are fooled by the random nature of the break-in phenomenon, resulting in all the lore surrounding it.

On my WRX, I changed the factory fill at 1,300 mi and spiked the subsequent fills with Liqui-Moly MOS2 additive. I did short fills until 5,000 miles. My WRX burns no oil. I ran my Honda Civic to 6,000+ mi on the factory fill and factory filter in accordance with the OM recommendation. It doesn't burn any oil either. Both cars got a "scientifically hard" break-in as suggested by Larry "hotrod" in my linked thread below.

The best thread about break-in I've seen is this one. Posts by Larry "hotrod" being most important.

That article contains some decent advice, some nonsensical advice, and a bunch of received wisdom break-in lore. First of all, how are you supposed to know when you've applied 28% TPS? How do you calibrate your foot to that? Second "easy" is pretty relative. 28% TPS will result in 100% engine load at ~2,500 RPM, at least it does in my car. That means you'll be getting 80%+ of the max BMEP a N/A car is capable of, that's hardly a light load on the rings.

As to changing the oil frequently, I think that's way overblown. The oil circulates at close to 6 gallons per minute at cruising RPM. Since there's only about a gallon of oil in the engine, that means all the oil in the sump circulates through the engine every 10 seconds or so. The big pieces of metal are generated very soon after starting the engine for the first time, so even if you change the oil at 50 miles, those pieces have potentially circulated through the engine hundreds of times. In reality they're caught by the filter, and the filter has plenty of capacity for 7,500 miles worth of driving, so you're not going to clog it. If you must be OCD about it, change the filter at 50 miles, top up the oil and sleep well until at least 3,000 miles.
I use a accessport so TPS was calculated based on my passenger verifying I had my TPS between the range I required for the runs.

Thanks for all the great info.

The reason I asked was because I saw a cloud of smoke on one of my final runs that had a bit higher rpm and load like the final runs required of me in the method I used.

I just wanted to make sure about the oil change interval more than anything. I noticed oil leaking at the oil pan in certain places and the rear seal area. But I snugged up the pan bolts and changed the oil and all the leaks seem to have vanished (possibly the break in oils composition along with metal debri).


Thanks again.
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Old 08-02-2014, 08:17 AM   #15
KornShaDoW097
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
people do all sorts of stupid **** with engine oil

it is THE least understood fluid out there...other than that between a womans ears, anyway
Lmao

Alrighty. Well I'm glad there is no truly wrong method.

I just like getting the input from peers on here
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