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Old 04-20-2012, 11:53 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default 10 cars in bad need of a design overhaul

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Auto design changes don't come along as quickly as mannequins on a runway, but they arrive and depart with some frequency. Buyers like what's hot and new, and more functional change is driven by engineering advances, government regulations, and customer requirements. Sometimes, what's new in a car design is simply a new look at something that used to be old. Ford introduced a retro-themed Mustang in 2005 and is now going to a more fashion-forward look in 2014 when the pony car gets an overhaul. The change isn't going down well with some traditionalists. "It's about time to ruin one of Ford's best sellers by turning it into the Ford Probe," complains one blogger.
Other times, change is more drastic. General Motors is saying goodbye to the Chevy Avalanche after the 2013 model year. With its four doors and adjustable pickup bed, the Avalanche resembles nothing so much as a crew-cab pickup -- and customers have decided they would rather just have the pickup.
Here are some other fashion changes that are coming due. Some are timely and some less so. Some range from a little sheet metal and chrome to a total rethink. And they're all coming to a driveway near you.
The tank-like SUV is going on a diet, courtesy of its new owners, India's Tata Motors. Unofficial reports have it that a liberal use of aluminum and high-tensile steel has trimmed some 1,100 pounds from the vehicle's more than two-and-a-half ton weight. Designers have apparently decided that the RR body's sharp angles are as iconic as the Taj Mahal, but they are said to have pushed the wheels closer to the corners for more interior space.








Lost in the middle of the Jeep lineup, the Liberty is neither as brawny as the Wrangler, nor as luxe as the Grand Cherokee. Its image may be even further blurred in January when a longer and wider version based on the sporty five-door Alfa Romeo Giulietta is unveiled at the Detroit auto show. Does this mean the Liberty will forego its Rubicon rating and become just another crossover? Or has Sergio Marchionne figured out a way to preserve its wilderness cred?


GM has not decided whether to continue producing the Cadillac Escalade EXT, but since the luxury sport-utility truck shares the same architecture as the soon-to-be-phased-out Chevy Avalanche, you can consider it dead as a dodo. The future of other Escalade models remains a bit cloudy. The betting right now is that GM will try to look forward as well as back by building a new, more economical crossover Escalade in 2014 based on the Buick Enclave in addition to redoing the familiar truck-based version.



Buyers have essentially rejected the idea of a unibody pickup that Honda first introduced in 2005, and no competitor has copied it, but the Ridgeline soldiers on, more or less in its original form. Only 1,215 found buyers in March, but like one of the zombies in Walking Dead, the Ridgeline refuses to die. If Honda has any plans to improve it, replace it, or kill it with a shot to the brain, they have yet to surface in public

Nothing ages faster than a design that is superficially attractive but functionally empty. Think padded vinyl roofs from the 1980s or chrome side strakes on some of today's cars. The FJ Cruiser was either a high point or a low ebb -- depending on your point of view -- in retro styling from usually stolid Toyota. Either way it hasn't aged well. 2012 sales are running at about a quarter of the rate when the FJ was introduced in 2006. Any plans to extend its life span or terminate it are closely held.

Chrysler ended production of the Caliber in November, but survivors remain on the lots of Dodge dealers, and gullible customers bought 224 of them in March. Its successor, the retro-named Dodge Dart, won't go on sale until June. The Dart won't have the Caliber's chunky body panels or handy fifth door hatch, but it will be built on an Alfa Romeo platform that will give it a far racier image than its ancestor.




Way back in 2005, before VW got serious about the U.S. market, it decided its dealers needed a real American minivan to sell. So it changed some of the sheet metal on the Chrysler Town & Country, gave it a typically weird VW name, and handed it off to dealers. Last reengineered in 2008, the Routan languishes on VW lots next to more up-to-date Beetles and Passats and can't compete with better vans from Honda and Toyota. Now that Chrysler is linked with Fiat, and given VW's new U.S. mission, a successor vehicle seems unlikely.

A 2011 reskin has enabled the Edge to hold its own on the sales lot among higher-profile Ford crossovers Escape and Explorer. But reliability problems earned it a thumbs-down from Consumer Reports, and the Mazda platform on which it is based is going away. Today's Edge will be replaced by an all-new vehicle based on the same architecture used by the Fusion in 2014. Given Ford's current design direction, it will likely look less edgier too.



The short, unhappy life of the second-generation RL is coming to an end. Technology-laden but personality-free, it was launched in 2005 and never found an audience. Acura unveiled its lighter and more powerful successor at the New York auto show in April, but once again Honda's flagship car will do without a V-8. Whether the new RL can escape the Acura blahs that afflict the rest of its lineup remains an open question.





Ever heard of a Kizashi, SX4, Equator, or Grand Vitara? Neither have most buyers, yet these models represent Suzuki's entire car and truck lineup. The Japanese automaker has been shedding U.S. dealers for years, and sales have been falling in a rising market. Toyota now sells more Camrys in two days than Suzuki sells all models in a month. Automakers can linger on in mummified states for years, but Suzuki may have to give up on motor vehicles and retreat to its motorcycle, ATV, and marine businesses.

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Old 04-20-2012, 01:49 PM   #2
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The FJ Cruiser is being slaughtered because of its gas-guzzling engine. If they'd put a four-cylinder or a diesel, it would sell more.

They're rusting on Japanese and Australian lots for that reason alone.
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Old 04-20-2012, 03:41 PM   #3
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The FJ is as big as a barn, while not as practical. It isn't wrangler or H3 size, it is H2 size, and about as practically limited, and outwardly blinded.

IF FJ were smaller, more like a Wrangler size... it wouldn't be so much of it's own air-brake at speed.

Land Cruiser is big. A 2 door with reverse doors doesn't need to be nearly that big... it just needs to stay technically competent with truck-grade hardware on a smaller frame/unibody combination.

If Liberty were built better than a Snap-Tite model, I'd be considering one. I think they look better now than the first generation did.

But they don't need ALL that extra roof height. With the ride height, the window sills could be slightly lower on the body, and the roof could be much lower, without looking like a pill-box bunker, like the H3 did.

I am sorry to see the Avalanche and Ridgeline maligned... but they are too close to a full-size to get out of the shadow of "real trucks".

That unibody SUT body style needs to be applied to the small-truck market, a little more tidy of a size than SportTrac was... More like SH forester size with a bit more rear overhang for bed length. Compact to mid-size CUVs could be SUTs without much trouble... and the benefits of a versatile small vehicle like that would not be cross-compared to the *Full-size Pickup* sacred cow.

Range Rover is iconic. May be time for an update, but it is supposed to look a certain way, like Wrangler is expected to look a certain way.

Acura RL should be replaced with a Genesis sedan competitor, or a sleeker Passat CC competitor. Choose one or the other... it is in limbo between them now, and not as interesting as either one.

Suzuki is on the edge, I hope it survives, but after being jettisoned from GM assistance, and VW cooperation has fallen through, as well... it is adrift a bit.

Minivans are boxes. What can you really do with a box? Maybe they'll go back to looking like passenger versions of vans like Transit connect, or a smaller Sprinter, to chase a pseudo-industrial look.

Caliber is gone, why is it being brought back up? Dart is the new thing, and looks much better, and much different.
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Old 04-20-2012, 03:43 PM   #4
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dude, the FJ is not H2 size... seriously..
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:05 PM   #5
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It sure as hell is bigger than an H3 or a Wrangler. I have looked at them up-close and in person. I like the functional styling, but I can't justify a vehicle that big, or that blind, in terms of visibility.

And an H2 is not as long as a Suburban, it is based on Tahoe... not far off of FJ being based on the full-size Land-Cruiser.

FJ is not H1 size, but I think you'd be surprised, if you saw an H2 and FJ parked together, how close they are in size.
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:58 PM   #6
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Really?

I will concede that jacked up FJ's with big tires and racks on them can look pretty big.
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Old 04-20-2012, 07:46 PM   #7
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Yeah, author is nuts.. the FJ still looks like a Tonka Toy version of an old FJ40.. which is super cool.

The Caliber needed a redesign before it ever hit the dealer lots.
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Old 04-20-2012, 08:36 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
dude, the FJ is not H2 size... seriously..
It's another example of Hips perception not being in line with reality. It becomes very obvious when we are dealing in absolutes instead of intangibles.
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:24 PM   #9
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Yeah, author is nuts.. the FJ still looks like a Tonka Toy version of an old FJ40.. which is super cool.

The Caliber needed a redesign before it ever hit the dealer lots.
I like FJ's looks too, visibility be damned. In addition to a Highlander/Tribeca tie-up, a Subaru/Toyota collaboration on a next-gen FJ would be very interesting, IMHO.
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:41 PM   #10
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The Wrangler itself could be redesigned to loose the 500-600 lbs. that it gained with the current generation.
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Old 04-21-2012, 12:01 AM   #11
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Toyota could revive their Megacruiser SUV with a Subaru H6 gasoline engine or H4 turbodiesel:


Using as flat boxer engine makes it easy to increase output on a wide off road vehicle while still maintaining good clearance.
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Old 04-21-2012, 12:21 AM   #12
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The fj is a nice lil truck, but unfortunatly it lost too much of the dna that landcruisers used to have. Gone are the solid front axle, topless version and, its ruggedness . its a real shame. Lets hope the next wrangler doesnt suffer the same fate.
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:00 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post


Really?

I will concede that jacked up FJ's with big tires and racks on them can look pretty big.
Funny that there isn't an average-height person in that picture, for a true sense of scale, showing how big both of those vehicles are.

FJ is longer than the 4-door Wrangler. Looks a bit wider, as well, but not much... and roughly the same height.

JK Wrangler is also larger than it's predecessors, and no longer the truly compact vehicle that Wrangler once was. The added weight was mentioned.

Most Wranglers are not 4-doors, either, and none of the predecessors, which makes the FJ all the longer than a 2-door Wrangler, and noticeably bigger than a pre-JK Wrangler.

And FJ doesn't have the four full doors of the Wrangler Unlimited, and less visibility, due to that huge C-pillar, and very high window sill line.

FJ Cruiser is not a small truck, even if it isn't as big as a crew cab tundra, either.
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:02 AM   #14
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The FJ hasn't been updated (other than getting the updated 1GR from my 4Runner) since it was released in 2006. With the 4Runner coming in a trail edition, most guys looking for an offroader have gone the TE way instead of the FJ due to the extra practicality of 4 real doors.

This guy is available with automatically disconnecting swaybars, too. When it came down to it, the 4Runner does a lot more for people that have kids... which is a majority of buyers looking for SUVs.



(not mine... I wish, though. I have the fancy version because the wife demanded white. )

The FJ is smaller than my 4Runner (also LC based). I'm 5'8", for reference. It is a big vehicle, but not anywhere near a Suburban, Yukon, or H2.



Here it is with my old GTI and our MINI.


Last edited by quentinberg007; 04-21-2012 at 01:11 AM.
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Old 04-21-2012, 07:51 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
The FJ is as big as a barn, while not as practical. It isn't wrangler or H3 size, it is H2 size, and about as practically limited, and outwardly blinded.
An FJ is smaller than an H3.
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Old 04-21-2012, 07:23 PM   #16
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Yeah I thought FJ was a decent looking SUV... Would be nice if they made a 4 door version...

The Ridgeline and avalanche are ugly as sin. Honda could make a decent little truck if they really tried, but they've been asleep at the wheel for the past few years, and cant seem to put one decent vehicle out.
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:29 AM   #17
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FJ & LR both look great. Changing their design is like begging Porsche to change the 911's shape.

Nick
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:38 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Eyeflyistheeye View Post
The FJ Cruiser is being slaughtered because of its gas-guzzling engine. If they'd put a four-cylinder or a diesel, it would sell more.

They're rusting on Japanese and Australian lots for that reason alone.
Here you can't even find a used one for less than 25k

Also the FJ is a iconic design, IMO it should be like a Jeep Wrangler and only slightly updated. Nothing should really be changed about it.
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:53 AM   #19
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Add Volvo S6 as rented one and was aghast it felt like a 90s car
The FJ still drives nicer than Jeep and way safer. Could use some improvements though like 4 real doors and some backup visibility and the windscreen could be raked back more.

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Old 04-23-2012, 05:56 PM   #20
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Rangie...leave it alone you fools!
Liberty...I see it as a nice balance for a real-ish 4x4. More everyday useful than a Wrangler, but actually able to do off-roading
EXT....Who cares. Dead anyway. Might see an Escalade crew cab pickup like Lincoln has had on and off.
Ridgeline....it will be a cult classic 10 years after they kill it. But will never have the numbers to make a new one make sense.
FJ...like the concept but agree that the details are too tonka toy. Seems that owners play that up though, so who am I to judge?
Caliber....can't kill it fast enough. Make sure the Chrysler 100 is a Dart hatch with Italian suspension please.
Routan...will be replaced with a 3-row large suv
Edge....Edge seems to be ok. good engines, good options, nice refresh.
RL....meh from day one.
Kizashi....nice little car in need of a good brand.
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Old 04-23-2012, 07:25 PM   #21
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Quote:
[...]Automakers can linger on in mummified states for years, but Suzuki may have to give up on motor vehicles and retreat to its motorcycle, ATV, and marine businesses.[...]
Suzuki has started to make questionable choices even with its motorcycle business in the U.S.: they killed the SV650, they killed the SFV650 Gladius as well, they killed both Bandit 650 and Bandit 1250 and they also killed the DRZ400SM. It's sad.
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:27 AM   #22
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Suzuki has become a sad shell of itself... ^^^
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:52 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
It sure as hell is bigger than an H3 or a Wrangler. I have looked at them up-close and in person. I like the functional styling, but I can't justify a vehicle that big, or that blind, in terms of visibility.

And an H2 is not as long as a Suburban, it is based on Tahoe... not far off of FJ being based on the full-size Land-Cruiser.

FJ is not H1 size, but I think you'd be surprised, if you saw an H2 and FJ parked together, how close they are in size.
I highly doubt you've seen an FJ and an H2 together. I doubt you've ever seen an FJ in person up close. The FJ is big, but it's nowhere near Tundra-size as you claim, it's smaller than a Tacoma. It's smaller than an H3. It's smaller than a 4Runner. All these are smaller than an H2.

In short, you're a moron with a questionable grasp on reality.

I loved my FJ, but I love my Raptor that much more.
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Old 04-24-2012, 05:47 AM   #24
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The Caliber I didn't like from the start, I think with the Dart coming out that the Caliber should be dropped and maybe even the Avenger? And make the Journey more fuel efficient.
I agree the Wrangler needs to keep its old school look, same with the Rover.
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:22 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Vostok 7 View Post
I highly doubt you've seen an FJ and an H2 together. I doubt you've ever seen an FJ in person up close. The FJ is big, but it's nowhere near Tundra-size as you claim, it's smaller than a Tacoma. It's smaller than an H3. It's smaller than a 4Runner. All these are smaller than an H2.

In short, you're a moron with a questionable grasp on reality.

I loved my FJ, but I love my Raptor that much more.
Quote:
FJ Dimensions:
Overall height (2WD/4WD) 71.3/72.0
Overall width 74.6
Overall length 183.9
Wheelbase 105.9
Track (front/rear) 63.2/63.6
Quote:
H2 dimensions
Length, Overall w/rear bumper (in) 189.8
Width, Max w/o mirrors (in) 81.2
Height, Overall (in) 79.2
Ground Clearance, Front (in) 9.7
Ground Clearance, Rear (in) 9.7
Ok, so it isn't as big as H2.

Quote:
H3 Alpha dimensions
Ground Clearance, Front (in)9.7
Length, Overall w/rear bumper (in)187.5
Ground Clearance, Rear (in)9.7
Wheelbase (in)111.9
Width, Max w/o mirrors (in)85.0
Height, Overall (in)73.2
And a tiny bit smaller than H3, but pretty close, although obviously shorter in length than a full 4-door SUV/SUT.

So I was wrong. I'll admit it when I am. FJ seemed to me to be a BIG vehicle, when I was on various lots looking for something more compact than that.

I AM SORRY FOR COMMITTING SUCH A GRIEVOUS SIN ENOUGH TO CALL MY CHARACTER INTO QUESTION.

I didn't realize that the FJ was so critical to people.

So, to the experts here, if FJ is such a waif of an SUV... why is it so inefficient, and why are the sales at a quarter of what they were?
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