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Old 08-23-2002, 10:54 PM   #1
HS WRB-rex
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Unhappy txs stage 2: 14.362@93.513?? help!!

First time at the track today (75-80 dragway). Temperatures ranged from 80-85 degrees, humid, still the daytime. Got in five runs from 5:30-7:15, fairly happy with that, but my joy kinda ends there. And heres why:
Best run of the night:
reaction time (doesnt matter I know)----------> 1.0168
60 ft.--------------------------------------------------> 1.8926
330 ft.------------------------------------------------> 5.8474
1/8 mile-----------------------------------------------> 9.1492
ET 1/4 mile-------------------------------------------> 14.3616@93.5129
Was it the driving or was it the car? The only thing missing from the stage 2 is the K&N filter,which doesnt help a whole lot. I'm pretty sure boost was ok, my autometer gauge read 16.5 psi in fourth gear on the highway going to the track. What really knocked me was watching some of the footage when I got home, I saw one of Ron's (aka EndlessShine, very nice guy btw) runs with his stage 1 which picked up a 14.55@95.5<----wth, how the heck did he manage that trap speed? The only consolence for me is that many cars were running slow compared to advertised times, 2k2 maximas ran mid to low 15s at best (even an SE), a stock WRX ran 15.3ish, and the cougar I staged against in this run got a 17.93. But the thing thats really bugging me now is that a stage one picked up a higher trap speed and lower ET than me.
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Old 08-23-2002, 11:32 PM   #2
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Well, your 60ft times seem decent (not great but not too bad either) so I don't think that your problem is in your launch. I assume that youre close to 220 whp with stage the txs stage 2. With 220 whp and a 1.8 60ft you should be well into the 13's. You're not at 10,000 ft elevation or anything crazy like that are you? What are you shifting at? Looks like your mph is a little low indicating that you're not getting all the power you should have. Maybe your car is pulling timing and running too rich???

Any thoughts?
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Old 08-24-2002, 12:04 AM   #3
HS WRB-rex
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elevation isnt very high there, not even worth mentioning apparently. I think these were the aproximate shift points for that run. 1st-7100, 2nd and 3rd-6500. Pulling timing might be the problem, I've heard of autometer gauges reading boost about a psi too high, and I think I was being a tad conservative with boost when I was there. Does the ECU pulling timing really affect it that much, looks like I'll be heading to turboxs for another check up

Edit: actually, it might be the other way around. boost might've been too high, otherwise timing would not be the issue

Last edited by HS WRB-rex; 08-24-2002 at 01:40 AM.
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Old 08-24-2002, 12:12 AM   #4
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When my car pulled timing it advanced it enough that I noticed a pretty big drop in power. Then again, it also threw a CEL. I assume you havent gotten one of those lately, have you?
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Old 08-24-2002, 12:19 AM   #5
HS WRB-rex
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nope no CEL, I always had this worry that my car never really changed in power for stock, at least lot by much. When I went to stage 1, I went to turboxs to get it checked it, coincidentally a hose popped off during a test run and we concluded it was a boost problem, but inside I felt there was a another problem. My upgrade to stage 2 left me feeling the same. I just thought I had an insensitive but dyno, but this has proven me otherwise
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Old 08-24-2002, 12:32 AM   #6
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just a side note, this track is known to cause slower times because of the slight incline. about .3-.5 sec differential. still, the car should contribute more
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Old 08-24-2002, 12:51 PM   #7
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Its hard to say what the problem is but you are down in power. Are you using the abc bleeder valve or their high performance boost controller? If you using the abc valve that will cost you some time. I shaved .2-.4 tenths of my times by switching to their high performance boost controller.

I ran 8.40s - 8.80s in the 1/8 mile with my stage 2 setup. 1/4 mile times where in the 13.3s - 13.7s @ 96-100mph.

Did you allow proper cool down of your car prior to racing. My WRX needs at least 1 hour of sitting, perferably with ice on the IC before a run. If your engine/IC is hot it will cost you a lot of time in the 1/4 mile.

Cool engine/IC+ high performace boost controller, I think you will see much better track times if this is the case.
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Old 08-24-2002, 01:06 PM   #8
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Your shift points are the problem. Don't listen to the people who say shift early. Shift at redline in each gear. I lost 3 tenths and 3mph consistantly when I shifted early. I ran 13.4-5@99 with the TXS Stg II (When I was at that level).

hth, -C
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Old 08-24-2002, 01:09 PM   #9
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75/80 is the biggest piece of **** track on the east coast. that would have been a major contribution to your times. check out MIR. its not much further for you. even capitol's better than 75/80.
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Old 08-24-2002, 03:17 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by jinxproof99
75/80 is the biggest piece of **** track on the east coast. that would have been a major contribution to your times. check out MIR. its not much further for you. even capitol's better than 75/80.
I would have to agree with Jinx. I have dragged there many times (75-80 in MD) and i also have dragged a lot at Englishtown, Atco, & Island (All in NJ). Its like night and day with times. Also, the 75-80 track looks like it goes up hill towards the end of the 1320.

With my previous car, I would run constant 14.8-14.7's at 75-80 track but as soon as i dragged at Atco & E-town, i ran consistent 14.4-14.3's. The only difference was the track. I had the same 60fts and same trap speeds at the 3 different tracks. My times were just plain slower at 75-80. Also, these runs were done in a matter of 2 days so the temp was pretty similar.

Also, I would redline each gear. I wouldn't start using early shifts points, like Type C mentioned. I have ran my best times shifting at redline vs shifting early. I have tried many ideas and shifting early fo rme was def. a bad idea.
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Old 08-24-2002, 04:54 PM   #11
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Default Re: txs stage 2: 14.362@93.513?? help!!

I've made a 14.1 pass in my stock wrx .. and here are a few tips to get yourself there.

1) Launches as 4500rpm w/ pretty quick clutch release - you seem to have decent 60's .. so I think you've got this down.

2) Don't try to slip the clutch into 2nd - quick shifts are your best bet, with a quick bilp off the throttle to ensure boost doesn't fall off. Perhaps you don't have a lot of manual transmission experience to do this?

3) Shifts should come right at 6500 rpm through all gears except 1st (I go to redline for first) so that the torque and hp doesn't dip following the stock power curve.

4) Don't shift into 4th unless you're sure your gonna hit the rev limiter. This wastes time and fourth is pretty doggy. I've had 96 mph traps in 3rd gear.

5) Practice gear shifts - see how quick you can slap them through. Try doing this with the engine off (I don't see any harm in doing so .. anyone have a comment on this?) and just push the clutch in, drop a gear, then next and so forth. Get it down so that you don't even think about it.

Just a few thoughts .. grains of salt not included.



Quote:
Originally posted by HS WRB-rex
First time at the track today (75-80 dragway). Temperatures ranged from 80-85 degrees, humid, still the daytime. Got in five runs from 5:30-7:15, fairly happy with that, but my joy kinda ends there. And heres why:
Best run of the night:
reaction time (doesnt matter I know)----------> 1.0168
60 ft.--------------------------------------------------> 1.8926
330 ft.------------------------------------------------> 5.8474
1/8 mile-----------------------------------------------> 9.1492
ET 1/4 mile-------------------------------------------> 14.3616@93.5129
Was it the driving or was it the car? The only thing missing from the stage 2 is the K&N filter,which doesnt help a whole lot. I'm pretty sure boost was ok, my autometer gauge read 16.5 psi in fourth gear on the highway going to the track. What really knocked me was watching some of the footage when I got home, I saw one of Ron's (aka EndlessShine, very nice guy btw) runs with his stage 1 which picked up a 14.55@95.5<----wth, how the heck did he manage that trap speed? The only consolence for me is that many cars were running slow compared to advertised times, 2k2 maximas ran mid to low 15s at best (even an SE), a stock WRX ran 15.3ish, and the cougar I staged against in this run got a 17.93. But the thing thats really bugging me now is that a stage one picked up a higher trap speed and lower ET than me.
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Old 08-24-2002, 05:00 PM   #12
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Default ..

I wouldn't argue against doing so witha modified car - I think perhaps the power curve continues depending on the state of tune, but I'd have to argue against redline for a stock car. The best way to determine your shift needs is to have YOUR particular car dynoed to see what it does at that rpm.

Quote:
Originally posted by TypeC
Your shift points are the problem. Don't listen to the people who say shift early. Shift at redline in each gear. I lost 3 tenths and 3mph consistantly when I shifted early. I ran 13.4-5@99 with the TXS Stg II (When I was at that level).

hth, -C
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Old 08-24-2002, 09:23 PM   #13
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Default Re: ..

Quote:
Originally posted by iflybyu
I wouldn't argue against doing so witha modified car - I think perhaps the power curve continues depending on the state of tune, but I'd have to argue against redline for a stock car. The best way to determine your shift needs is to have YOUR particular car dynoed to see what it does at that rpm.

Exactly, on a stock car, you might shift early. But on a modified car, you need to shift at redline.

fwiw, I ran 14.2 bone stock shifting at redline.

What's up Jinxproof!
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Old 08-24-2002, 09:45 PM   #14
HS WRB-rex
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wow, I thought this thread was dead fast. thanks for all the input

Quote:
Its hard to say what the problem is but you are down in power. Are you using the abc bleeder valve or their high performance boost controller? If you using the abc valve that will cost you some time. I shaved .2-.4 tenths of my times by switching to their high performance boost controller.
I am using the ABC, its turned out about 4-5 turns, which is a bit more than average.

Quote:
Did you allow proper cool down of your car prior to racing. My WRX needs at least 1 hour of sitting, perferably with ice on the IC before a run. If your engine/IC is hot it will cost you a lot of time in the 1/4 mile.
I had rather little cool down time, 5 runs in less than 2 hours, my first few runs had about 5-10 min of cooling. I think if I perfected my driving on my first run, i couldve shaved around .2 off.

75-80= slow
That has been the word from just about everyone. I'll look into these other tracks

SHIFT POINTS
Yea I'll try and experiment with that, I'll also study the power curve on the txs dyno plot.

Last edited by HS WRB-rex; 08-25-2002 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 08-25-2002, 01:42 PM   #15
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just another thing I wanted to add. Does anyone think its a timing issue, even if I didnt get a CEL? I think the boost mightve been too high, regardless of what the gauge said, and although 1st and possibly 2nd gear enjoyed the boost (spun out all fours for 1-2sec on 215/45/17 RE950s), 3rd and 4th were hurt badly because they get much higher boost.
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Old 08-25-2002, 03:22 PM   #16
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try shifting at redline!


Quote:
Originally posted by HS WRB-rex
elevation isnt very high there, not even worth mentioning apparently. I think these were the aproximate shift points for that run. 1st-7100, 2nd and 3rd-6500. Pulling timing might be the problem, I've heard of autometer gauges reading boost about a psi too high, and I think I was being a tad conservative with boost when I was there. Does the ECU pulling timing really affect it that much, looks like I'll be heading to turboxs for another check up

Edit: actually, it might be the other way around. boost might've been too high, otherwise timing would not be the issue
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Old 08-25-2002, 03:23 PM   #17
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shift at redline!!!

ESPECIALLY in 3rd gear.
you want to be in 4th as little as possible.

the best times will come when you learn to shift 3rd at the last possible second

Quote:
Originally posted by HS WRB-rex
just another thing I wanted to add. Does anyone think its a timing issue, even if I didnt get a CEL? I think the boost mightve been too high, regardless of what the gauge said, and although 1st and possibly 2nd gear enjoyed the boost (spun out all fours for 1-2sec on 215/45/17 RE950s), 3rd and 4th were hurt badly because they get much higher boost.
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Old 08-25-2002, 05:33 PM   #18
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how about 2-3 shift?
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Old 08-25-2002, 10:08 PM   #19
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You didn't mention it, but are you running large wheels? My friend put 18" rotas on his car and lost .5-.7 seconds off the 1/4 mile. If you still have them, and if they fit, put the stock wheels on. Inflate the tires to 40 psi (this gave me the best times with my vishnu zero). I also shift at redline on all gears.
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Old 08-26-2002, 08:06 AM   #20
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yes I have larger wheels, 17inch, my overall tire/rim combo is most likely a bit lighter than my stock, so I thought it would cancel out the fact that there is more weight on the outside. thats a good point though, but I no longer have my stock wheels.
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Old 08-26-2002, 09:20 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by HS WRB-rex
how about 2-3 shift?
REDLINE!
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Old 08-26-2002, 09:21 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by HS WRB-rex
yes I have larger wheels, 17inch, my overall tire/rim combo is most likely a bit lighter than my stock, so I thought it would cancel out the fact that there is more weight on the outside. thats a good point though, but I no longer have my stock wheels.
what wheels did you buy?

even with the 12lbs SSR Competitions, the larger tire tends to make it weigh the same as stock.

I dont know of any wheels lighter than that...
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Old 08-26-2002, 11:26 AM   #23
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i thought someone a long time ago posted that 215/45/17s weighed less than 205/55/16s. ok maybe it is a bit heavier then. I have oz sls weighing at 15.6 pounds a piece, I believe stockers are like 16.0-16.2
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