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Old 04-08-2015, 10:02 AM   #1
Zeeper
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Default Question for the peanut gallery: modding a leased 2015 WRX

First off, not my WRX.

I check Youtube occasionally and came across a video channel for “LastHumansGarage”, mainly because he has some of the most recent videos about the 2015 WRX.

He has a leased car, and started with simple mods (hard wiring radar detector, license plate relocation…) and now has jumped up to a Cobb Accessport tune, fast forward a few days to a Bren tune (X2).

So the question is: how does Subaru deal with tuners who lease a car and mod it.

I get his warranty (while he has the car) could be affected, but what happens when he turns in the car at the end of the lease and they see all the mods (those that leave evidence behind), reflashed ECU, etc…

Just wondering if the pay to play affects leased cars in some way when turned in?
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Old 04-08-2015, 10:09 AM   #2
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Seems like a bad idea for a number of reasons. It is possible to buy a car at the end of the lease. Maybe that's his plan?

In my opinion:
If you don't have the money for the car you don't have money for the mods. Posting it online seems even dumber.
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Old 04-08-2015, 10:16 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
First off, not my WRX.

I check Youtube occasionally and came across a video channel for “LastHumansGarage”, mainly because he has some of the most recent videos about the 2015 WRX.

He has a leased car, and started with simple mods (hard wiring radar detector, license plate relocation…) and now has jumped up to a Cobb Accessport tune, fast forward a few days to a Bren tune (X2).

So the question is: how does Subaru deal with tuners who lease a car and mod it.

I get his warranty (while he has the car) could be affected, but what happens when he turns in the car at the end of the lease and they see all the mods (those that leave evidence behind), reflashed ECU, etc…

Just wondering if the pay to play affects leased cars in some way when turned in?
I'd wager there's a line in the lease agreement that speaks to it and has penalties.

Also, Upstate NY is not NESIC. Get out of my Region.
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Old 04-08-2015, 10:40 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loyale93 View Post
I'd wager there's a line in the lease agreement that speaks to it and has penalties.

Also, Upstate NY is not NESIC. Get out of my Region.
Born, Brockton MA
Raised, Western MA

I like NE. Upstate NY (at least where I live) is closer to NE than to NYC (I travel to both).

Remarkably similar - Hudson river valley and Pioneer Valley -- same longitude, same climate, same topography pretty much.

How do you like Ireland?

Last edited by Zeeper; 04-08-2015 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 04-08-2015, 12:08 PM   #5
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The Cobb Accessport is a relatively harmless mod. As long as you remember to put the car back to stock before going to the dealership, I don't think there's an issue.

The Cobb doesn't leave traces does it?
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Old 04-08-2015, 12:19 PM   #6
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He posts on this forum as "jobber". I suspect he just reverts back to the stock flash before turning the car in.
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Old 04-08-2015, 12:23 PM   #7
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thanks peanut gallery.

i would never turn the lease back in at end in my case. either it will be traded to a different dealer with no lease end consequence whatsoever, or i would buy it out and sell it myself. probably for no loss on value no less.

additionally, with the cobb tune i saw some knock feedback correction. now with the bren tune, i have no feedback knock at all. its safer than cobb.

carry on.
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Old 04-08-2015, 12:46 PM   #8
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Thill came, just waiting on soap box and bluesubaru now lol
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Old 04-08-2015, 01:05 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General Klinger View Post
The Cobb Accessport is a relatively harmless mod. As long as you remember to put the car back to stock before going to the dealership, I don't think there's an issue.

The Cobb doesn't leave traces does it?
I'd ask if you were new here, but you joined 4 years before me.

It depends on who you ask, Cobb will say no. Others believe once you change the stock map, you are past the point of no return.
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Old 04-08-2015, 01:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jobber View Post
thanks peanut gallery.

i would never turn the lease back in at end in my case. either it will be traded to a different dealer with no lease end consequence whatsoever, or i would buy it out and sell it myself. probably for no loss on value no less.

additionally, with the cobb tune i saw some knock feedback correction. now with the bren tune, i have no feedback knock at all. its safer than cobb.

carry on.
Glad you are here!

To clarify, since I am not clear:
  • No knock with stock tune?
  • Some knock correction with Cobb (stage 1?, meaning there was some knock to correct with the Cobb tune?)
  • No knock with Bren tune?
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Old 04-08-2015, 01:27 PM   #11
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Subaru is rated the best performance brand in America now check out torque news!
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Old 04-08-2015, 01:43 PM   #12
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I'd hope they ream his ass for modding something he doesn't own...

Why do people think it's ever a good idea to modify a leased car? YOU. DON'T. OWN. IT.
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Old 04-08-2015, 01:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXHillClimb View Post
I'd hope they ream his ass for modding something he doesn't own...

Why do people think it's ever a good idea to modify a leased car? YOU. DON'T. OWN. IT.
LOL, technically most people have a loan on their car and don't own it (because the bank technically does).

So should only people who pay cash for cars be allowed to mod them?
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Old 04-08-2015, 01:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
Born, Brockton MA
Raised, Western MA

I like NE. Upstate NY (at least where I live) is closer to NE than to NYC (I travel to both).

Remarkably similar - Hudson river valley and Pioneer Valley -- same longitude, same climate, same topography pretty much.

How do you like Ireland?
I was born and grew up in Westfield. I'll vouch for ya, man. So long as you've got the "no accent" that starts with the 413 area code, we're good.
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Old 04-08-2015, 01:52 PM   #15
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LOL, technically most people have a loan on their car and don't own it (because the bank technically does).
Lease is different from a lien. A loan means you only cough up the car when **** goes badly. For all intents and purposes, you own it. A lease is just that. You're renting or borrowing a car with the end assumption being you give it back (even if they hand out lots of buy offers now). Home owners can do what they want to their house. Apartment owners can't do anything to it without explicit permission of the land lord. So, by all means, go ask subaru if you can modify a lease vehicle

Now, if you ask what I think the point of a lease is, I'd say it's a hassle free experience with no strings attached to a car, so if you're one of those people who likes the newest every 3 years, you can have an easy way of doing that.

Any other reason for using a lease is a dumb one.
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Old 04-08-2015, 01:56 PM   #16
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anyone on any type of financing is not the owner of the car, only those who paid in full. You dont get the title until its paid out. Id say many people mod cars they dont own, right or wrong.

Just be prepared to remove and sell parts if you ever turn it in, and pay for things you modified beyond the point of no return

and i can see a CVT owner choosing a lease due to its unknown reliability

Last edited by SlideTru; 04-08-2015 at 01:58 PM. Reason: stuff
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Old 04-08-2015, 02:33 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by WRXHillClimb View Post
Lease is different from a lien. A loan means you only cough up the car when **** goes badly. For all intents and purposes, you own it. A lease is just that. You're renting or borrowing a car with the end assumption being you give it back (even if they hand out lots of buy offers now). Home owners can do what they want to their house. Apartment owners can't do anything to it without explicit permission of the land lord. So, by all means, go ask subaru if you can modify a lease vehicle

Now, if you ask what I think the point of a lease is, I'd say it's a hassle free experience with no strings attached to a car, so if you're one of those people who likes the newest every 3 years, you can have an easy way of doing that.

Any other reason for using a lease is a dumb one.
Me thinks you don't understand leasing.

At anytime during the lease you can buy out the car. The residual value of the car is already pre-determined by the lease agreement (This is the MOST important piece of information -- read on). You absolutely do not need to turn in the car at the end of the lease. You can buy it outright, buy it and sell it, or of course turn it in.

Let me give you a situation which leasing worked out for us. Back in '10, my soon to be wife needed a new car, as we were living 300+ miles apart. We found a Subaru Outback sport with a lease special of like $1K down, 200 bucks a month and residual of around 11K at lease turn in, and free service for the duration of the lease.

She made more than enough money to finance the car, but leasing worked for us because we were unsure if we wanted to keep the car at the end of 3 years (may need something bigger) and we know that the residual was low enough that we could sell it, or buy it outright.

Fast forward about 2 years, and we needed a bigger car. We decided to buy the car outright to sell (it was 14K buyout at the time) and sold it for 18K.

So basically, 1K down + 4800 in monthly lease payments, we got back $4K of it.

Even if you financed or paid cash outright, you still pay money out of pocket to drive a car - with our lease situation, the out of pocket costs per month were minimal.

The biggest tip to leasing is to look for the manufacturer lease deals where the cap cost (cost of car) has been reduced to the point where it is advantageous to take advantage of even if you decide to buy the car later on. Also pay attention to the residual cost.

Leasing is really just a different way of paying for a car. Of course at the end, you can turn the car in and walk away, but that is rarely advantageous EXCEPT for some vehicles such as the leaf, 500e, etc.. vehicles where the monthly lease payments are subsidized from the manufacturer in order to get the car out on the road, and those are the ones you should always turn in.
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Old 04-08-2015, 03:03 PM   #18
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You dont get the title until its paid out.
Not always true. You can have a copy of the title in-hand, it will just have a lien holder listed and likewise you cannot transfer the title without a letter of lien release from your bank. Moving cross country twice with financed cars I learned this.
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Old 04-08-2015, 03:04 PM   #19
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Yes, I still owe about $9K on my WRX and have the title. There is a lien on it.
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Old 04-08-2015, 03:06 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by WRXHillClimb View Post
Lease is different from a lien. A loan means you only cough up the car when **** goes badly. For all intents and purposes, you own it. A lease is just that. You're renting or borrowing a car with the end assumption being you give it back (even if they hand out lots of buy offers now). Home owners can do what they want to their house. Apartment owners can't do anything to it without explicit permission of the land lord. So, by all means, go ask subaru if you can modify a lease vehicle

Now, if you ask what I think the point of a lease is, I'd say it's a hassle free experience with no strings attached to a car, so if you're one of those people who likes the newest every 3 years, you can have an easy way of doing that.

Any other reason for using a lease is a dumb one.
I know lots of people who buy their car out at the end of the lease. I also know lots of people who sell their car before they paid it off even when they buy vs lease.

IMHO, not much difference between the two, either way the bank owned it you don't. Personally, I think spending money on mods fora 1-3 year lease is like throwing money down the drain if you have no intention of buying it.
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Old 04-08-2015, 03:07 PM   #21
20Robertwrx14
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Me thinks you don't understand leasing.

At anytime during the lease you can buy out the car. The residual value of the car is already pre-determined by the lease agreement (This is the MOST important piece of information -- read on). You absolutely do not need to turn in the car at the end of the lease. You can buy it outright, buy it and sell it, or of course turn it in.

Let me give you a situation which leasing worked out for us. Back in '10, my soon to be wife needed a new car, as we were living 300+ miles apart. We found a Subaru Outback sport with a lease special of like $1K down, 200 bucks a month and residual of around 11K at lease turn in, and free service for the duration of the lease.

She made more than enough money to finance the car, but leasing worked for us because we were unsure if we wanted to keep the car at the end of 3 years (may need something bigger) and we know that the residual was low enough that we could sell it, or buy it outright.

Fast forward about 2 years, and we needed a bigger car. We decided to buy the car outright to sell (it was 14K buyout at the time) and sold it for 18K.

So basically, 1K down + 4800 in monthly lease payments, we got back $4K of it.

Even if you financed or paid cash outright, you still pay money out of pocket to drive a car - with our lease situation, the out of pocket costs per month were minimal.

The biggest tip to leasing is to look for the manufacturer lease deals where the cap cost (cost of car) has been reduced to the point where it is advantageous to take advantage of even if you decide to buy the car later on. Also pay attention to the residual cost.

Leasing is really just a different way of paying for a car. Of course at the end, you can turn the car in and walk away, but that is rarely advantageous EXCEPT for some vehicles such as the leaf, 500e, etc.. vehicles where the monthly lease payments are subsidized from the manufacturer in order to get the car out on the road, and those are the ones you should always turn in.
What he said. As far as modding a leased car, you can do whatever you want. However if you do decide to turn it back in it must be returned to stock. As far as I understand some dealers may accept certain mods, for example different rims, license plate re locator, window tint and so on. Talk with your dealer, but general rule of thumb is if you plan on turning the car back in ( not sure why you would ever do this with a wrx. The resale will be soooo much higher than your residual) keep all stock parts and turn the car back in stock.
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Old 04-08-2015, 03:07 PM   #22
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<snip>
I definitely understand leasing, and it has definite benefits.

But, did you modify the car in question? Would you modify a leased vehicle? I hope the answer is no...
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Old 04-08-2015, 03:10 PM   #23
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However if you do decide to turn it back in it must be returned to stock

The resale will be soooo much higher than your residual) keep all stock parts and turn the car back in stock.
That's fraud, unless you disclose it to the dealer upon turn-in or whatever. People who think returning a modded car to stock is the same as a car that's always been stock are both retarded and almost always fraudulent at the time of getting rid of the car.
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Old 04-08-2015, 03:18 PM   #24
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I definitely understand leasing, and it has definite benefits.

But, did you modify the car in question? Would you modify a leased vehicle? I hope the answer is no...
You analogy of apartment vs. owning a house sounds like you didn't understand leasing at all. You can't just live in your apartment and decide to 'buy' it anytime. Nor can you rent an apartment after x amount of years and say that $$ I put in previously for rent can now go towards the cost of the house should I buy it.

As for modifying the outback sport. Not sure if anyone ever did modify that car. I did change the HU, and that's about it. But again, if I were to keep the car, I would modify it no problem.

When you lease with a manufacturer 'lease special' you're getting such a low capitalized cost that it is usually lower than what you can negotiate buying the car outright. Some take advantage of that, some don't.

Anyway you look at it, the monthly cost you pay during a lease is actually going into the cost of the car. Just like if you financed it.

It's not money you're throwing away to 'rent' a car. That money is deducted from the cost of the car little by little.
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Old 04-08-2015, 03:24 PM   #25
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That's fraud, unless you disclose it to the dealer upon turn-in or whatever. People who think returning a modded car to stock is the same as a car that's always been stock are both retarded and almost always fraudulent at the time of getting rid of the car.
'modded' car is vague.

Would I change wheels/tires on a leased car that I know I will turn in? Possibly. Especially if they are standard 4x100 bolt pattern that can be used for another car and easily sold

Would I tint the windows on a leased car I know I will turn in? Probably, because that $200 bucks I put in will make me enjoy the car that much more for the next 3 years.

Would I invest in a 'custom' stereo system? No. Would I get an AP and custom tune? probably not.

It's all relative to what a person wants to do and their comfort level. For me, getting the windows tinted would not be a big deal. I know I won't get that $200 back, but it will make driving the car much more livable for the next 3 years.
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