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Old 05-08-2012, 07:39 AM   #26
moonrider_99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddMax

Interesting because the service manager at my Subaru dealership say they can tell that the ECU has been tampered with by looking at the CVN. Since you're a tech and obviously quite knowledgable, now I don't know who to believe Thanks for this posting up.
Read Christian 's email. Your reading skills = fail.
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:51 AM   #27
woody06967
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I bought my STI with an aftermarket exhaust, intercooler, and CAI on it from a Subaru dealer CPO who offered to sell a custom tune at the same time. This is my second turbo Subaru that I've done a fair amount of work to and never had an issue with modifications at a dealer.
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:14 PM   #28
moonrider_99
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Originally Posted by woody06967 View Post
I bought my STI with an aftermarket exhaust, intercooler, and CAI on it from a Subaru dealer CPO who offered to sell a custom tune at the same time. This is my second turbo Subaru that I've done a fair amount of work to and never had an issue with modifications at a dealer.
which dealer offered you a tune?
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:34 PM   #29
MaddMax
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Originally Posted by moonrider_99 View Post
Read Christian 's email. Your reading skills = fail.
Why so harsh? This is the first time I've ever seen this Cobb email and obviously many others are in the same boat.

My question is why then are people so worried about the ECU modifications and warranty issues if the aftermarket flash (assuming you removed it prior to taking it in) is completely transparent when hooked up the Subaru's computers? From what I've read on this site, there have been many cases where Subaru denied powertrain warranty work claiming the ECU had been modified. Daily on this site, you read people say, "if you mod the ECU, kiss your powertrain warranty goodbye".

Even though I'm currently happy with stock power levels, I'd eventually consider a Stage I flash (no intention of Stage II ever). However, with everything I've read on this site, what my service manager is saying, and what the local Kansas City Subaru group says (one of which is full of scooby gurus), the word is Subaru can tell the ECU has been tampered with regardless of what Cobb says. Now UK-Wagon, whom claims to be a Subaru tech, says Cobb is spot on with their findings.

Who are you to believe? It's a risky proposition when $4K+ is involved in the event your shortblock becomes wrecked and Subaru says "denied."
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Old 05-09-2012, 04:13 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by MaddMax View Post
Why so harsh? This is the first time I've ever seen this Cobb email and obviously many others are in the same boat.

My question is why then are people so worried about the ECU modifications and warranty issues if the aftermarket flash (assuming you removed it prior to taking it in) is completely transparent when hooked up the Subaru's computers? From what I've read on this site, there have been many cases where Subaru denied powertrain warranty work claiming the ECU had been modified. Daily on this site, you read people say, "if you mod the ECU, kiss your powertrain warranty goodbye".

Even though I'm currently happy with stock power levels, I'd eventually consider a Stage I flash (no intention of Stage II ever). However, with everything I've read on this site, what my service manager is saying, and what the local Kansas City Subaru group says (one of which is full of scooby gurus), the word is Subaru can tell the ECU has been tampered with regardless of what Cobb says. Now UK-Wagon, whom claims to be a Subaru tech, says Cobb is spot on with their findings.

Who are you to believe? It's a risky proposition when $4K+ is involved in the event your shortblock becomes wrecked and Subaru says "denied."
Harsh because you did not read a very valuable email from COBB with the due attention.

Here's how dealer finds out your ECU is/was altered
- Your ECU is stock or modified but you have physical mods (downpipe, etc)
- You are "physically" stock but your ECU is modified and therefore your CVN/CID does not correspond to one of the numeric combinations that Subaru assignes to the ECUs in factory.
- You re-flashed back to stock using open source, CID/CVN are lost*.

*I'm actually curious about this one, since according to COBB (if I understand this correctly) if CID is not same as the CVN the car should not start (ECU fails internal check). UK-Wagon, can you comment?

Last edited by moonrider_99; 05-09-2012 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:19 PM   #31
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I dont recall seeing anything about the car failing to start with a different CID / CVN combination. The CID just refers to the software that SHOULD be on the ecm and the CVN is that validation. When you tune it, the CVN check changes to reflect that the ecm is not using the software version expected based on the CID.
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Old 05-09-2012, 06:10 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by apocalight View Post
I dont recall seeing anything about the car failing to start with a different CID / CVN combination. The CID just refers to the software that SHOULD be on the ecm and the CVN is that validation. When you tune it, the CVN check changes to reflect that the ecm is not using the software version expected based on the CID.
It's not fully clear to me based on this section from COBB:


"When the AccessPORT is installed, it changes the CVN so it no longer
matches the valid value for the CID. This is required because we are
altering data in the ECU. If the CVN is not correct for the new data,
the ECU will fail its internal check and not run because it thinks it
data is bad. So, we are forced to alter the CVN if we want the ECU to
run with the new data. That means we're not changing the CVN for the
sake of changing it, we have to in order for the ECU to operate.
When the AccessPORT is uninstalled (Reverted to stock), the CVN
_*matches*_ the CID."

I have a feeling somewhere in this paragraph it should say CID instead of CVN, can anyone confirm?
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:18 AM   #33
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I'd bet money that if I was bone stock other than an OTS Cobb Stage 1 reflash and a CBE when the motor popped (from everday driving), as long as I unmarry the AP correctly and don't fall for any tricky business from the dealership (i.e. admitting to an ECU reflash), there's no way I would be denied warranty work...the first time at least.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:23 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXLTD
I'd bet money that if I was bone stock other than an OTS Cobb Stage 1 reflash and a CBE when the motor popped (from everday driving), as long as I unmarry the AP correctly and don't fall for any tricky business from the dealership (i.e. admitting to an ECU reflash), there's no way I would be denied warranty work...the first time at least.
I've taken that bet, and my CBE (SPT) came shipped to the dealer on the car... Not that I want my motor to pop, I'm just saying...
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Old 05-10-2012, 12:41 PM   #35
moonrider_99
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Originally Posted by WRXLTD View Post
I'd bet money that if I was bone stock other than an OTS Cobb Stage 1 reflash and a CBE when the motor popped (from everday driving), as long as I unmarry the AP correctly and don't fall for any tricky business from the dealership (i.e. admitting to an ECU reflash), there's no way I would be denied warranty work...the first time at least.
yep, no reason to get the claim denied, as long as you flash back to stock and drive it long enough for all sensors to come back online.
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Old 05-10-2012, 12:55 PM   #36
WRXLTD
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Originally Posted by moonrider_99 View Post

yep, no reason to get the claim denied, as long as you flash back to stock and drive it long enough for all sensors to come back online.
Yes...good point! That or say I disconnected the battery overnight to clear the CELs.

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Old 05-10-2012, 08:37 PM   #37
NeverSummer WRX
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Originally Posted by WRXLTD View Post
I'd bet money that if I was bone stock other than an OTS Cobb Stage 1 reflash and a CBE when the motor popped (from everday driving), as long as I unmarry the AP correctly and don't fall for any tricky business from the dealership (i.e. admitting to an ECU reflash), there's no way I would be denied warranty work...the first time at least.
Hmmm.... this may make me reconsider waiting until my warranty is up to get an AP.
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:21 AM   #38
WRXLTD
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Originally Posted by NeverSummer WRX View Post

Hmmm.... this may make me reconsider waiting until my warranty is up to get an AP.
IMO, the longer you stay with the crapstastic stock tune, the better the chance of breaking a ringland. Just look how lean the stock tune is in boost...

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Old 05-11-2012, 08:17 PM   #39
NeverSummer WRX
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IMO, the longer you stay with the crapstastic stock tune, the better the chance of breaking a ringland. Just look how lean the stock tune is in boost...
Agreed.... however I would rather have a broke ringland with a warranty than a great tuned car with no warranty in need of a short block.
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Old 05-12-2012, 06:43 AM   #40
WRXLTD
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Agreed.... however I would rather have a broke ringland with a warranty than a great tuned car with no warranty in need of a short block.
There's no arguing that point. Yes it's a chance one takes losing a portion of their warranty after flashing the ECU. My greatest fear is breaking a ringland on the stock tune, getting the motor fixed under warranty, then another ringland breaking later on. I don't think the dealership is going to fix it under warranty the second time no matter what the owner says...they will claim "abuse".
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:12 PM   #41
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Wow. That picture of the tune is pretty horrible. I was thinking of staying stock as well and just doing suspension mods...but man AFR's shouldn't be anywhere near stoich during boost. WTF were they thinking?!
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:53 AM   #42
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Wow. That picture of the tune is pretty horrible. I was thinking of staying stock as well and just doing suspension mods...but man AFR's shouldn't be anywhere near stoich during boost. WTF were they thinking?!
In a word... Emissions.

Subaru is fully aware of the lean tune under boost, and they rely on the knock detection system to keep the motors together, they are also fully aware that that same lean tune is what lends to the higher number of engine failures; and they have a pretty good idea of how many will fail under warranty period.

Thing is... it makes sense for them to do it to get the lower emissions ratings for many reasons, marketing and tax credits (Millions of dollars per year) to name a few...
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