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Old 05-07-2012, 01:50 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by disillusioned View Post
So, I went shooting for the first time ever this weekend.


I had fun. Looks like I have a few threads to read, eh?
Nope, don't read. Just buy a Glock 19, an AK-47, a few 100 round assault clips and a few thousand rounds of exploding heat seeking cop/baby killer bullets and you'll be set.

Always hold the Glock sideways, too. They are way more accurate that way.
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Old 05-07-2012, 01:52 PM   #27
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9mm is an all-around better round. It doesn't have much recoil either and pretty easy to keep COM. A glock 19 will carry 16 rounds of a suitable and well tested defensive round which will be better than 20 rounds that someone heard that they are better.
You said the magic word! Prepare to be harassed!
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Old 05-07-2012, 01:58 PM   #28
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Black talon vs. Blue Sapphire



Shot out of a G19
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Old 05-07-2012, 01:58 PM   #29
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Nope, don't read. Just buy a Glock 19, an AK-47, a few 100 round assault clips and a few thousand rounds of exploding heat seeking cop/baby killer bullets and you'll be set.

Always hold the Glock sideways, too. They are way more accurate that way.
Awesome advice, thanks.
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:01 PM   #30
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Black talon vs. Blue Sapphire



Shot out of a G19
Is that an ass crack?
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:01 PM   #31
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Ok, serious question........ I know, I know.


Should I buy a cheap spotting scope (300 yards max) or get a pair of binoculars and use those for spotting down range?
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:04 PM   #32
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Is that an ass crack?
Possibly...teehehe
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Ok, serious question........ I know, I know.


Should I buy a cheap spotting scope (300 yards max) or get a pair of binoculars and use those for spotting down range?
Most cheap spotting scopes really suck. You can get better optics in binoculars, but you are going to have a hard time seeing unless you can stabilize them.
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:11 PM   #33
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Most cheap glass is indeed junky... I've heard good things about the Bushnell Spacemaster as a cheapish scope (@$300), but I haven't had the chance to play with one yet.
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:13 PM   #34
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Here is a video of that ammo shot in ballistics gell. It only penetrates 8-9in and expands to less than half and inch. The minimum penetration that the FBI states is 12". In a handgun bullet, penetration is the most important and just about any 9mm and above load will meet the FBI standard with even better expansion than 5.7.

Elite Ammunition ProtecTOR IV Ballistic Tests - YouTube

Here is a post by DocGKR, a ballistics expert, on 5.7x28. He also lists other sources with the same information. Granted it's an older post that only talks about the SS190 FN load but he states that the 5.7x28 is a poor choice for HD.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19913

9mm is an all-around better round. It doesn't have much recoil either and pretty easy to keep COM. A glock 19 will carry 16 rounds of a suitable and well tested defensive round which will be better than 20 rounds that someone heard that they are better.

If anyone can provide more information about 5.7x28 ballistics and show it being better than 9mm then I will change my mind on the subject.
Eh, people carry .38 and .380. That 5.7 wound channel looks worse, imo. But it is a new gun, so I wanted to have it for a day. I have other guns that I'd use in SD/HD first, not all long guns, either.
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:14 PM   #35
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Ok, serious question........ I know, I know.


Should I buy a cheap spotting scope (300 yards max) or get a pair of binoculars and use those for spotting down range?
How cheap is cheap to you? I have a $60 Barska that is utter **** but if I'm shooting shoot-n-see's and it's not too cloudy out then I can see at 300 yards. If I'm shooting at paper then the day has to be perfect to be able to barely see out to 300 yards.
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:15 PM   #36
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10mm High Point!
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:16 PM   #37
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well, i just bought a fnx-9
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:19 PM   #38
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well, i just bought a fnx-9
You bought wrong... the correct answer is G19
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:21 PM   #39
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Eh, people carry .38 and .380. That 5.7 wound channel looks worse, imo. But it is a new gun, so I wanted to have it for a day. I have other guns that I'd use in SD/HD first, not all long guns, either.
But there are abundant loads for .38 that meet the FBI standard with good expansion as well. .380 is kinda pushing it for self defense use but there are loads that will meet the FBI standard and the benefit is that it comes in a really small package. You're not going to pocket carry the FN FiveSeven.

You can't judge a caliber on how the wound channel looks in ballistics gel. Like I said before, penetration is key when it comes to handgun rounds.

awilson, I'm not trying to knock your gun purchase and not trying to offend you or anything. I think the FN FiveseveN is a cool pistol and would love to shoot it but it's only useful on a range. Don't try to put it into roles where it is not suited and your life could depend on it.
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:24 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by metalmilitia101 View Post
But there are abundant loads for .38 that meet the FBI standard with good expansion as well. .380 is kinda pushing it for self defense use but there are loads that will meet the FBI standard and the benefit is that it comes in a really small package. You're not going to pocket carry the FN FiveSeven.

You can't judge a caliber on how the wound channel looks in ballistics gel. Like I said before, penetration is key when it comes to handgun rounds.

awilson, I'm not trying to knock your gun purchase and not trying to offend you or anything. I think the FN FiveseveN is a cool pistol and would love to shoot it but it's only useful on a range. Don't try to put it into roles where it is not suited and your life could depend on it.
Plus you can put a .38 or 380 in your pocket, they're the bare minimum to meet the first rule of gunfights.

If you're dealing with a bigger firearm, might as well use a more potent and proven round.
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:28 PM   #41
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LGS had an old Winchester Model 250 .22L/LR lever action with a period 4x Springfield scope for $150. I picked it up because everything I've been able to find says it should be worth much more. Plus it's unusual and I love unusual stuff.
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:28 PM   #42
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How cheap is cheap to you? I have a $60 Barska that is utter **** but if I'm shooting shoot-n-see's and it's not too cloudy out then I can see at 300 yards. If I'm shooting at paper then the day has to be perfect to be able to barely see out to 300 yards.
I was trying to keep it under the $100 mark.

I won't be shooting at 300 all the time, mostly 100-200 yards, mostly.
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:28 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by metalmilitia101 View Post
But there are abundant loads for .38 that meet the FBI standard with good expansion as well. .380 is kinda pushing it for self defense use but there are loads that will meet the FBI standard and the benefit is that it comes in a really small package. You're not going to pocket carry the FN FiveSeven.

You can't judge a caliber on how the wound channel looks in ballistics gel. Like I said before, penetration is key when it comes to handgun rounds.

awilson, I'm not trying to knock your gun purchase and not trying to offend you or anything. I think the FN FiveseveN is a cool pistol and would love to shoot it but it's only useful on a range. Don't try to put it into roles where it is not suited and your life could depend on it.
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:29 PM   #44
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You bought wrong... the correct answer is G19
already have one
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:32 PM   #45
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already have one
Should have bought a second one then.
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:37 PM   #46
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Should have bought a second one then.
Dual wield or no wield
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:49 PM   #47
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Should have bought a second one then.
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Dual wield or no wield
no thanks. do i sense some trollin?

glocks are ****ing awesome, but i like a little variety in the safe.
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:50 PM   #48
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Someone change the thread title to Glocks v4.0
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:53 PM   #49
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At least with the pistol, the bolt is opening up FAR too quickly and blowing all a significant portion of the gas out the breech.
I'd like to see a Kel-Tec Sub-2000 style gun in 10mm.
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Old 05-07-2012, 03:02 PM   #50
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on another note, im bringing out the fnx-9, Ruger gp-100 and marlin 39-a tonight for a little target practice
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