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Old 08-26-2002, 01:49 AM   #1
andygold
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Default EGT probe in uppipe or manifold?

I'm having a TurboXS Stage 2 kit plus their uppipe installed tuesday. I guess it's easier to install my Defi EGT gauge in the extra bung on the uppipe than in the exhaust manfold, but I was wondering the pros and cons of each installation. Anyone?
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Old 08-26-2002, 08:47 AM   #2
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The consensus around here is that you will get better, more accurate results if you drill and tap the manifold. If you are going to have the install done for you, or even if you're doing it yourself, it is almost as easy to take off your passenger side manifold and drill and top on the casing button, than it would be to tap the uppipe. It's only a few more steps to take off the manifold and do it properly. My vote is for the manifold.

CB
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Old 08-26-2002, 08:56 AM   #3
Extraze
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Dont forget something here....

The location of your probe has nothing to do with your EGT measurements... what you are looking for when installing an EGT gauge, is measuring the variances in heat, now weather you probe the manifold or the uppipe, you will see the same variances in heat.

every car runs different, what you need to do is, install your probe wherever you see fit, record your Normal temperatures (city driving/stop and go) and record your WOT temperatures (try to rise it as much as you can) then you are able to set your own scale, and you can go from there.
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Old 08-26-2002, 09:19 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Extraze
Dont forget something here....

The location of your probe has nothing to do with your EGT measurements... what you are looking for when installing an EGT gauge, is measuring the variances in heat, now weather you probe the manifold or the uppipe, you will see the same variances in heat.

every car runs different, what you need to do is, install your probe wherever you see fit, record your Normal temperatures (city driving/stop and go) and record your WOT temperatures (try to rise it as much as you can) then you are able to set your own scale, and you can go from there.
I must strongly but respectivaly disagree with you. The location of the probe has EVERYTHING to do with EGT measurements. With a package such as the stage2 which includes unichip, it is important to know actual temperatures coming into the manifold/uppipe. Variances in temps works when you have only a few bolt on mods, but for a Stage2 I would recommend going into the manifold. What good are variances in temperature when you don't know what the maximum temperature is? After all, the max temp is what we are concerned about. Let's say that the temperature at which you begin having problems is 1800F+ degrees. If your gauge reads a little high but only read about 1500 degrees, you may think that's ok. What I'm saying is without a max temperature reading, you won't have any idea what the actual temperature is when your gauge reads 1400, 1500, or 1600 degrees. I don't like that idea. With very little extra effort, the manifold can be drilled and tapped for a much more accurate reading.

With a $1,700 mod package, drill and tap tha manifold and you won't have to worry about variances, you'll have actual readings.

CB
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Old 08-26-2002, 10:25 AM   #5
2000vfr800
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I used the extra bung in my up-pipe to install a second (the first is the stock wideband O2 sensor you can't read with a standard meter) Autometer O2 sensor for my A/F meter I have next to my EGT gauge (which I {actually, Clayton} tapped the manifold for). I also am going to tap into the ECU O2 sensor with a switch so I can watch either the Autometer up-pipe O2 probe, or the rear O2 probe after the CAT with the same meter.

However, if you don't want to install a second O2 sensor in the Up-pipe, I can't see why installing the EGT sensor in the _already provided bung_ on the up-pipe would yield such different results from a EGT probe tapped in the manifold. IIRC, there are no components in between the two locations except for a few inches of pipe.
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Old 08-26-2002, 10:41 AM   #6
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A few inches of pipe can yield a difference of a couple hundred degrees. The air coming out of the manifold is somewhere around 1400-1600 degrees if I remember correctly. Now that air coming into contact with the uppipe which is surrounded by air that may be only a couple hundred degrees, will decrease dramatically, even over the course of a few inches. A couple hundred degrees, at least to me, is enough to warrant tapping the manifold to get a proper temperature reading.

If you know thermodynamics, you will know that 1800 degree air, when coming into contact with, say 300 degree air, will cool a few hundred degrees almost instantaneously.

CB
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Old 08-26-2002, 10:47 AM   #7
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OK...sounds valid to me. As a EE, I was required to take thermo, but I didn't remember anything.

Thanks...

Now...what kind of temps should I be seeing? I'm usually around 1400 highway, with the temps getting up near 1550 if I'm at partial throttle w/boost and 1500 wot.

I think I need a different EGT gauge...something that has a range of 1200-1700 or so. Who cares about 0-1200...
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Old 08-26-2002, 11:19 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2000vfr800
OK...sounds valid to me. As a EE, I was required to take thermo, but I didn't remember anything.

Thanks...

Now...what kind of temps should I be seeing? I'm usually around 1400 highway, with the temps getting up near 1550 if I'm at partial throttle w/boost and 1500 wot.

I think I need a different EGT gauge...something that has a range of 1200-1700 or so. Who cares about 0-1200...
Correct, 0-1200 is completely useless. Anywhere from 1400-1600 degrees and you should be good. I think once you start getting into the high 1700 and 1800 degree area, you have a problem. But I think most of the basic bolt-ons (uppipe, downpipe, headers) will not cause such temperature spikes. I think when you start getting into bigger turbos, injectors, and better fuel systems, is when the potential of running high EGTs becomes evident. Other than that, there really isn't anything to worry about.

CB
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Old 09-10-2002, 09:58 AM   #9
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I take it that you have to take off the manifold to make sure no chavings get in there right?
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Old 09-10-2002, 12:13 PM   #10
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Steven Saunders....I've heard of people using thick grease on their drill bit and tap, to hold onto the metal shavings. I do not recommend this, as if any shavings were to be left behind in the manifold, they will go up the uppipe right into the turbo, and possibly destroy it.

If you are having someone else do the labor, it's more than worth it to pay the extra dollars to have the manifold removed(1-2 hours MAX @ about $80/hr), as opposed to having to pay for a new turbo($650-$2000).

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Old 08-23-2006, 11:13 AM   #11
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:Rising from the dead:
Does anyone know the correct tap size needed to install my EGT in the manifold? I'd like to walk in to Sears after work and buy exactly what I need. If it helps any better, it is an Omori gauge
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Old 08-23-2006, 11:31 AM   #12
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1/8" NPT (pipe thread). Good luck finding one at Sears, I had to buy a whole tap/die set to get one. You might have better luck with a plumbing supply place- I know HD and Lowes around here don't carry them.
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Old 08-23-2006, 11:56 AM   #13
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what if I used something like this to weld on instead?

https://vichubbard.com/shop/product.php?productid=57832
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Old 08-23-2006, 11:58 AM   #14
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Old 08-23-2006, 12:58 PM   #15
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yea theres places to buy a single tap or single die.
Ive got one for my mani EGT tap, and for milling shift knobs from aluminum.

Get a spare manifold. Send it out to have the EGT bung drilled, then be ported, polished, and ceramic coated. Then install it all at once and enjoy!
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Old 08-23-2006, 12:59 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiznaz
what if I used something like this to weld on instead?
I wouldn't, only cuz it's aluminum, and welding it would suck. I'm thinking Summit or somewhere like that would sell a bung to weld on. Hell, my Autometer POS EGT gauge came with a bung to weld on!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 05wrxmatt
In that case... I think I paid ~$30 for the Craftsman tap & die set. $10 for 1 tap with no handle < $30 for a set, you never know when you might need to thread sumthin'!

Edit: ^^^ DriftR's plan sounds much better. More expensive, but much better ROI.
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Old 08-23-2006, 02:35 PM   #17
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Wow I sounded really smart 4 years ago. What the hell happened to me?
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Old 08-23-2006, 02:42 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiznaz
:Rising from the dead:
Does anyone know the correct tap size needed to install my EGT in the manifold? I'd like to walk in to Sears after work and buy exactly what I need. If it helps any better, it is an Omori gauge
Since you mention the Omori -- does it come with a bung? I've been thinking about getting one of these...
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Old 08-23-2006, 04:06 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FromageTheDog
Since you mention the Omori -- does it come with a bung? I've been thinking about getting one of these...
To be honest I'm not sure since I've bought these used..
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