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Old 08-26-2002, 04:02 AM   #1
kawshon
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Default suspension suggestions for track day

any suggestions guys?
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Old 08-26-2002, 07:05 AM   #2
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Whatcha got in your car? (for suspension). If adjustable struts, then I'd say start with equal tire pressures front and rear, and equal strut dampening front and rear. As you get the feel for your cars handling, you can then adjust for more or less oversteer and neutral handling. Generally Higher rebound for rear to get more oversteer, and higher rebound front for less oversteer.

Normally, understeer is considered the enemy... But on an open track, especially without any or little experience, A chasis adjusted for oversteer can result in bent metal and a loss of control.

Anyway, have fun and drive slideways
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Old 08-26-2002, 01:10 PM   #3
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I'm with Shin, What do you have and how do you like to drive????
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Old 08-26-2002, 05:19 PM   #4
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I could be all hosed up, but my struts are just the AGX's.
I think with AGXs you can only adjust compression dampening. As far as rebound is concerned I'm pretty much stuck with what they gave me. That's one reason the ALK is such a big help, because it slows down the rebound(or lift) by adding positive castor.

A nice coilover setup would be pretty spiffy, especially if you got the N2 charged/adjustable rebound and compression type.

Dominic
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Old 08-26-2002, 09:27 PM   #5
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OOps wrote rebound rather than compression... Must be the heat stroke from saturday... Anyway, If you had both rebound and compression dampening adjustment It'd allow for LOTS of ways to tune your car's handling. OR lots of ways to SCREW UP!

Oh yeah, My personal opinion on Competitive driving: do what works for you best. I like tail out idiocy for auto-x and street. But for track, where the speeds are alot higher, as well as sharing the road with others, Understeer is the safer bet.
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Old 08-26-2002, 09:33 PM   #6
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i only have the progress springs. Im more of an easy going driver, I tend to drive aggersively here and there.

Im no where in the same league as the rest of you though.

Being that it's only a few weeks away, money would be an issue, so coilovers and stuff are kinda out of the question, I think. heheh. Unless I can pull a rabbit out of the hat.

Need some ideas, before I go splurging again!

Thanks!!

What benefits would those sway bars and strut bars be?
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Old 08-26-2002, 10:36 PM   #7
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Strut tower bars will only help to stiffen your chasis and make it a little more responsive... Sway bars will affect how your car reacts to body roll and lateral weight transfer. A larger rear swaybar will result in more tail happy ride, while a larger front will result in more understeer.

If your only mods so far are springs, I'd Greatly recomend some Tires. Get the best you can afford or at least a good budget tire. For 16" sizes, about $100 plus or minus $20 is a good prive for Ultra high performance tires. In my experience the BF Goodrich G-force lineup is a great tire choice, (both 2.5 dohc and I have run those tires with success) Also Bridgestone RE-730's are good tires in my experience. A new tire out there is the Dunlop Formula 901 which is the replacement for the W-10, It's cheap, and supposedly gives much better wet and dry traction.

If you can't afford the tires, just boost your stock RE-92's and hope for the best... then get a sway bar for the rear and go have some fun!
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Old 08-26-2002, 10:46 PM   #8
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i got kumho supras 225/45/17
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Old 08-26-2002, 10:51 PM   #9
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Subarus benefit largely from a bigger rear antisway bar.
They have pretty soft bars in them stock because it keeps the ride softer. Anti-sway bars act as a "spring" between the control arms. When one wheel moves up or down this bar exerts a fraction of the force on the other wheel. This act minimizes body roll. The bigger the bar, the larger the fraction of the force on the other wheel, the less body roll. Polyurethane bushing are great too. Under heavy cornering loads ALL the stock rubber bushings squish and flex causing suspension geometry to change for the worse. Control arm bushings, D bushings and end links (with poly bushings) are a GREAT addition to obtaining a more predictable, stable and confidence inspiring suspension. Strut tower braces also help minimize changes in suspension geometry under "sporty" conditions. Mine has obviously been helping in my car because the mounting plates show apparent signs of great stress; they are warped/wavey.
My experience has shown that new sway bars and poly bushings made the biggest difference in my cars cornering ability. It was a night and day experience for me. Money VERY well spent. I used Whiteline. They are an Austrailian company and their prices aren't near as high as some of the other brands. Some people swear by them, some prefer Cusco or STi components. PDM racing online hooked me up BIG TIME. I got an AWESOME price on all my components and they were here really quick.
The other best addition was better brakes. WOW. For you, I recommend the Porterfield pads. They are amazing. Minimal warm up and Great stopping power. I pay about 100 bucks a pair for fronts. Brake fade is a killer on track days. It'll make your lap times slower by a huge margin. But these pads will help with that. Stock organic pads react quickly to the higher rotor temps during racing and just plain stop working: Pedal will go down, speed won't.
More power and speed won't do anything for you if you can't slow your car down or make the corners. Suspension and brakes first, HP later, then looks; that's my opinion. Just ask the guys I race if it matters... Sean, Mike, Hugh?

I'm getting smoked on Sep21st because Mike upgraded his brakes and suspension. His power didn't do him any good last time we raced. Now I'm done for Because I don't have Mike's funding :monkey: I've got a baby on the way and another new car payment.
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Old 08-26-2002, 11:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by kawshon

Being that it's only a few weeks away, money would be an issue, so coilovers and stuff are kinda out of the question, I think. heheh. Unless I can pull a rabbit out of the hat.

Need some ideas, before I go splurging again!

Thanks!!

What benefits would those sway bars and strut bars be?
this is one of my rants, so bear with me...

i think the best improvement you can make is to fix the loose nut behind the wheel...that means YOU...learn to drive the car as it is...the more stuff you put on, the more variables there are to screw you up...and even if you start to go faster/have better times, it may not necessarily mean that you're improving as a driver...lots of guys say "i need this, i need that" but i feel its best to improve the driver before anything else...of course, it's your money and do whatever you want with it...and if you think i was talking about someone in particular, i wasnt...
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Old 08-27-2002, 12:05 AM   #11
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I think Poser is correct in learning to drive your car to it's full potential.I also think that when you drive someone else's car 2 seconds faster than your own that the," I need this " ,"I need that", may not be just talk.Not,that I'm taking any offense,cause he's not talking about anyone in particular. I also think that experience,not experiments is the key to driving any car to it's full potential. You could have every conceivable modification to your car to be the best of the brand and still only be doing what someone with mild mods is doing just because he/she knows their car better. So just come out and pound your $hit like the rest of us and have a good time.
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Old 08-27-2002, 12:52 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by ImprezaRSX
Just ask the guys I race if it matters... Sean, Mike, Hugh?
Dom, what in the hell are you talking about??
... don't categorize me with hugh either, thanks.
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Old 08-27-2002, 12:54 AM   #13
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... and on another note, money is no excuse, look how much I've spent. Mike's mods will kick ass at the track, .... he Still kicked ass before he had them. Once again there's more talk going on than action, .... seems it's a never ending cycle.
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Old 08-27-2002, 01:10 AM   #14
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I was just asking for suggestions, I didnt say I was going to buy anything.

I understand what you are saying though.
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Old 08-27-2002, 01:29 AM   #15
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Dom, Its the rebound on the agx's that you can adjust, not the other way around.

Poser, I used to use that "nut" rant! My "nut'' is still loose! Looser still as I have no car to come out to the track yet! Although maybe I need a "thrash" party at my house for my MR2 so you guys can light a fire under my A$$!!!!!

Kwashon, being that you only have springs on your car, I would suggest playing with tire pressures with the front tires 2psi (NO MORE THAN 4 PSI) higher than the rear. You want to have a high enough pressure in your tires to keep them from rolling on to the sidewalls. Start high at about 46-48f and about 44-46r cold. After each run, evaluate your tire scrubline to see if you need to bleed the tires down or put air in to keep it at the tire's edge. It will take a couple months to find the right pressures. Hopfully I can get off that saturday so I can help you set up your car so all you have to do is learn how to drive. Another thing you might want to concider (spl?) is the eccentric bolt adjustment to max neg. front camber.

Now by all means I am NO "expert" as most of they guys here are. I am sharing my experiences from when my car was all stock racing against modified subarus and what I did. With the aformentioned set up I was able to beat those guys in my car! Although I must also add that as soon as I started modding my car, I went straight A$$ backwards! . Hmmm.......maybe it was the car, because anyone of the guys here know I can't drive. -Scu
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Old 08-27-2002, 02:14 AM   #16
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I'm usually not one to argue, but Scu I still think it's compression dampening. When I crank it up every little bump is felt on impact (compression) before the rebound. THe KYB says multistage damping... maybe it's both, but I doubt it.
Front may be compression and rear could be rebound...
I guess we need some more info. I know that the handling implies compression, but maybe I'm all hosed.
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Old 08-27-2002, 02:22 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by NoLimitWRX
... and on another note, money is no excuse, look how much I've spent. Mike's mods will kick ass at the track, .... he Still kicked ass before he had them. Once again there's more talk going on than action, .... seems it's a never ending cycle.
Well, Sean, Last time I raced with those guys I kicked their a$$. Anyone who says different is full of it. Mike's car didn't have any of the brake or suspension mods then. That's why I said he would beat me now. I thought you were there. Hugh spun out... oh gee that's right... You were with him! He and three others who couldn't hang.. not to mention I made it more than halfway through lap traffic without being passed by anyone... in fact nobody was even close. So, I will put you in whatever category I want, the category that was behind me.

There, I didn't want to do it. I never talked much crap about our races because I knew it burnt you guys enough that I was winning with my little RS. "It's those headers" You claimed when Hugh couldn't pull on me. Sure.

So in my case, there's little talk and lots of action. But go ahead and make it seem anyway you want so it hurts less.

Love you guys! See you on the track.
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Old 08-27-2002, 02:55 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by ImprezaRSX
Last time I raced with those guys I kicked their a$$. Anyone who says different is full of it.
I would just like to say that you didn't kick my a$$... I may not have passed you but you did not kick my a$$, I was passing everyone you were passing, and if it wasn't for the moron in the white miata that was driving like and idiot, I would have stayed with you. I just wanted to point that out.
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Old 08-27-2002, 03:52 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by ImprezaRSX
I'm usually not one to argue, but Scu I still think it's compression dampening. When I crank it up every little bump is felt on impact (compression) before the rebound. THe KYB says multistage damping... maybe it's both, but I doubt it.
Front may be compression and rear could be rebound...
I guess we need some more info. I know that the handling implies compression, but maybe I'm all hosed.
Ok. Try this trick: Set the fronts to 1 then bounce(compress) at the strut tower-easy up and down right? Now do that with each setting and see how slowly the car raises(rebounds) after each compression stroke while remaining relatively easy to compress. To be perfectly honest, the adjustment acually adds some compression relative to each setting the strut is put on.(or at least that's what the guy from shox.com told me)-Scu.
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Old 08-27-2002, 03:55 AM   #20
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Oh BTW, IF I had my MR2 running at the track day......I would be collecting a$$es instead of passing em out. Ill be comming outta tha booth to collect them if anybody is intrested. -Scu.
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Old 08-27-2002, 11:27 AM   #21
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Whelp,

Yall knew I had to get into this conversation sooner or later. But suprisingly I will not talk trash on this thread until I prove myself on the track. But me and my stock Rex may have some surprises in for some of you, so if you see some little blue headlights flying up in the rearview. Please sirs get the F--k outta my way.
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Old 08-27-2002, 04:47 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by 18hrwrx


I would just like to say that you didn't kick my a$$... I may not have passed you but you did not kick my a$$, I was passing everyone you were passing, and if it wasn't for the moron in the white miata that was driving like and idiot, I would have stayed with you. I just wanted to point that out.
Alright, I'll give you that!
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Old 08-27-2002, 06:03 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by ImprezaRSX
I thought you were there. Hugh spun out... oh gee that's right... You were with him! He and three others who couldn't hang.. not to mention I made it more than halfway through lap traffic without being passed by anyone... in fact nobody was even close. So, I will put you in whatever category I want, the category that was behind me.

There, I didn't want to do it. I never talked much crap about our races because I knew it burnt you guys enough that I was winning with my little RS. "It's those headers" You claimed when Hugh couldn't pull on me. Sure.
dude, I don't know what the f*ck your problem is.
I didn't drive my car that day either. I never said ***** about your header, Hugh couldn't pull on you b/c his car is tuned like *****, and that's all I've said. What does it matter if I was riding with him?
There was only one autoX that you pulled a better time than me, .... and uhh, you do have more suspension mods than I do.
... like I said, I don't know what the F*CK your problem is. I had thought you lost your attitude somewhere out at sea, ... but I guess not.
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Old 08-27-2002, 10:05 PM   #24
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Hey can't we all get along just waite till track day and put your money where your mouth is. Who ever is fastest on the track then can have full reign over the bragging rights.. I'll be out there rolling around on my Dubs with truzes and vouges... Stock struts with some springs that I took off Some dudes Honduh man car bounces and looks dope so I'll be the one one the track getting passed but hopefully not by everybody... Oh yea just got this super body kit huge front end looks like a snow plow and got dope a$$ muffler that gave me like 20-30 hp according the the guy that sold it to me he also said it would make any car fast even my grandmas 1974 Vega wagon

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Old 08-27-2002, 11:15 PM   #25
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Track time will be dominated by cars with horsepower. The longer the straight the more it will show. If the track day is anything like before, the only passing zone on the short course will be on the straight, and the entrance to the rubber room will be coned slightly to force slower speeds through it. The ONLY way to pass is to get a good run on the person in front of you, and get flagged to pass. If it was based purely on the cars, without a passing flag, it would all come down to horsepower.

RS's against each other need a longer course to overtake each other (like the full course) But the WRX's have a huge hp advantage and will walk away from the RS's every time. The only way to pass a WRX will be to Truly out drive them, (ie. they really make a bad mistake or drive crappy) or to be let by by the flagger. 'cause shooting them is illegal

The true fun will be on the long course between the WRX's battling each other and the RS's battling each other. Just think JGTCC GT300 and GT600 races or GT and LMP classes at Le Mans

I don't mean to sound negative, but that's the way it is...
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