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Old 05-15-2012, 07:18 PM   #1
B.R.E.D
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Default B.R.E.D: Review of TICs new TGV Deletes

First, Thanks to the guys at TIC for picking us to test the new TGV deletes. We enjoy testing new parts whether they are from another company or our own. About once every two months we pull one of our personal engines apart to test something new or to check and see how the parts we are currently testing are holding up. Luckily for us these parts don't require a full tear down just a hour or two of wrenching to install.

I haven't installed these on the car yet, just wanted to give my initial impressions of the product. Ill be installing them towards the end of the week and Ill update this thread accordingly.

If any of the other testers would like to post there feelings in here they are more than welcome to.

Matt
Ball Racing
Ball Racing Engine Development(B.R.E.D)

So, Whats in the box....well I got a card with Clints cell phone number, it will be for sale shortly on ebay, opening bid is 4 million but I'm open to offers...

Really nice looking kit, everything you need is included. LGT style TGV to cylinder head gaskets are very nice and we use them on everything at the shop. The tops of the TGV seal to the intake with a rubber O-ring, this is a nice touch(ours came with 6 incase someone tears one installing them. All of the Brass inserts look to be very secure. The overall finish is very nice and I don't see anything that I would change. I haven't installed them on the car yet but I did test fit a set of stock rails as well as a set of Aeromotive rails and both fit perfectly.

This is everything that comes in the box.


A single TGV by itself, not the smooth finish on the outside, no rough edges at all.


Different angle of the TGV


Close-Up of the O-Ring Groove


Bottom of TGVs


Inside of TGVs from the bottom, this ridge actually looks bigger in the picture than it actually is. It could very easily be removed with some fine grit sand paper by hand. No need for power tools on this.


Same view but from the top.


More Views


View from the back


O-Ring
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:18 PM   #2
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:18 PM   #3
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Sorry for all the delays, its been crazy busy at the shop the last couple of weeks but they are installed and tested. Here are my initial thoughts.

Install
Install on these is no more difficult than a normal set of TGVs. If you know your way around a Subaru it will take you somewhere between a 1 and 2 hours. If you don't know your way around a Subaru I suspect you can double that.

The Legacy TGV to cylinder head gaskets seal up very nice and provide a positive stop when you are torquing them down. The O-rings on the top that seal to the intake manifold also seal very nicely. Keep in mind you are sealing a o-ring so you don't need a tremendous amount of torque for these to seal. I torqued mine down tighter than I thought necessary to see how sturdy the inserts are in the plastic. I had no issue with it at all.

Its a very well constructed part, I didn't expect it to be any more difficult to install than a standard tgv and of course it wasn't.

Testing.
We kept testing rather basic. Its plastic so it should transfer less heat to the intake manifold and the interior is smooth so it should flow well.

Ill arrange my temp data in the same format that Crystal posted his in for easy comparison.

Stock No Spacers:
At TGV's inner side is where the temps were measured:

#3 - 155* #4 - 145*
#1 - 146* #2 - 144*

Intake Manifold @ the runners above flange

#3 - 134* #4 - 120*
#1 - 140* #2 - 129*

TIC's Composite TGV's:
@ TGV's

#3 - 138* #4 - 125*
#1 - 134* #2 - 128*

Intake Manifold:

#3 - 108* #4 - 101*
#1 - 108* #2 - 107*

More important than all the numbers above are the track results. I took the car to Atlanta Motorsports Park last weekend and put it through the paces. I forgot the IR Temp gun but one thing was very obvious...The intake manifold is way cooler after a 30 minute track session than it ever has been before. I could put my hand on it. Previously I could have put my hand on it...it just would have been followed by screaming and cursing. The car is on the ragged edge of how much timing it can run and I honestly expected it to want less timing at the track with as hot as it is, what actually happened was the opposite, I ended up putting a little more timing in it during the day. While it may not be the most scientific results its enough for me.

Clearly having plastic there isolating the intake manifold from the head is providing a thermal benefit.

If anyone has questions please feel free to ask. I've got more pictures but I of course left the camera at the shop.

I like these so much that I told Clint I would take 5 sets on the first order and we will be keeping them in stock at the shop. These will be going on every track car we build.

Matt

Last edited by B.R.E.D; 06-19-2012 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:19 PM   #4
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Reserved 2
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:20 PM   #5
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to hell with what they look like, how do they work?
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:25 PM   #6
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I'm working on it, I want to finalize the tune on the car this week and Ill install them this weekend.
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Old 05-15-2012, 08:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B.R.E.D View Post
I'm working on it, I want to finalize the tune on the car this week and Ill install them this weekend.
ahh i see. keep us posted
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Old 05-15-2012, 08:35 PM   #8
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They look great, should be a nice alternative to some of the other "ridiculously priced" competition
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Old 05-15-2012, 08:51 PM   #9
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Meh, One peice manifold FTW.

JK, looks like a fabolous peice of work. Though, I wonder why they went with the design of the oring. Do Legacys use orings already?
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Old 05-15-2012, 08:57 PM   #10
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I know the 08+ WRX does with the legacy plastic mani
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Old 05-15-2012, 09:53 PM   #11
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Real quick as I'm working on a motor and would like to get home by midnight.

I didn't even notice the ridge inside until Crystal also pointed it out. It's an artifact from the mold. I'll have to hit them quick with a 1500 grit flap sander on the production to take it out. Especially since both you and he have pointed it out.

The finish will look better as the mold still needs to be media blasted. We didn't have that done for testing in case changes needed to be made.

The lower TGV gaskets. I wanted a rubber gasket there and pulled a "damn the torpedoes" and now I see how much the torpedoes are. I am working with the manufacturer to find a more cost effective solution.

I have NOT tested it with a normal lower gasket. It may actually be just fine doing that. I need to set one up with a stock lower and put 40 psi into it to see what happens.

Crystal has his, Team Scream should have his, and you have yours. Juan - there's a small delay on your set, but I should get those out soon. In the mean time the other goodie should be there for testing (yes guys I have two parts in test currently someone buy something as two R&D projects along with getting the race car is killing me).
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:16 PM   #12
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I wanna be a test dummy :-)
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:42 PM   #13
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caption for second photo ...

" *note the smooth finish..."

thanks for posting - look forward to your review.
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Old 05-16-2012, 12:20 AM   #14
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Honestly the ridge is a non issue for me. I don't think its actually high enough to even cause a flow issue. Ill knock it down with 1500 grit before i test it. So far it really looks like a nice part. I bolted it onto a set of our test heads today to see how they line up with the ports and it looks perfect. Looking forward to doing more testing this week.


On a side note, we did some testing as well this weekend on a new set of pistons and oil control rings and the results look great. Could be good news for everyone this week.
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:12 AM   #15
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Very excited! cant wait to see more.
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:21 AM   #16
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Very nice guys!
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Old 05-16-2012, 03:48 AM   #17
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Suscribed
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Old 05-16-2012, 04:10 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 25rsti View Post
I wanna be a test dummy :-)
X2!!!
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Old 05-16-2012, 04:16 AM   #19
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Hurry up so I can give you my money. ETA to public? What's the melting point to the plastic? And what kind of plastic?
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Old 05-16-2012, 06:22 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
Real quick as I'm working on a motor and would like to get home by midnight.

I didn't even notice the ridge inside until Crystal also pointed it out. It's an artifact from the mold. I'll have to hit them quick with a 1500 grit flap sander on the production to take it out. Especially since both you and he have pointed it out.

The finish will look better as the mold still needs to be media blasted. We didn't have that done for testing in case changes needed to be made.

The lower TGV gaskets. I wanted a rubber gasket there and pulled a "damn the torpedoes" and now I see how much the torpedoes are. I am working with the manufacturer to find a more cost effective solution.

I have NOT tested it with a normal lower gasket. It may actually be just fine doing that. I need to set one up with a stock lower and put 40 psi into it to see what happens.

Crystal has his, Team Scream should have his, and you have yours. Juan - there's a small delay on your set, but I should get those out soon. In the mean time the other goodie should be there for testing (yes guys I have two parts in test currently someone buy something as two R&D projects along with getting the race car is killing me).
Great! I cant wait, i am going to start talking to my cooworker about the infrared camera

Last edited by juanmedina; 05-16-2012 at 06:30 AM.
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Old 05-16-2012, 07:59 AM   #21
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I got a yes on the camera . I will take a base line reading as soon as I figure whats wrong with my car lol
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Old 05-16-2012, 11:20 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my name is joe View Post
ETA to public?
I'm curious about this as well.
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Old 05-16-2012, 12:26 PM   #23
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are these made out of hard plastic?
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Old 05-16-2012, 12:31 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoobyJD View Post
are these made out of hard plastic?
they are composite so there is a thread fill in there as well. basically, you're looking at the same stuff OEMs are using for plastic manifolds now.
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Old 05-16-2012, 12:38 PM   #25
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hey guys - super busy so a quick update for you.

To make this project fly I had to commit to 1000 sets. Given the out of pocket costs on this one I will be hosting a pre-production group buy. That of course is dependent upon the testing of the prototypes.

Now, here's the thing. It is a long-ish lead item. 60 days from my order until they are delivered.

For this I was thinking of hosting the group buy for 45 days so I can get a rough idea of on if I need to then initiate a second immediate order.

As for timing - right now it depends upon the test feedback. Once we have that we move forward with the next step.

Next step could be a green light OR it could be that changes need to be made. This is why we do testers.

As for the group buy it will NOT be a tiered setup. It will be a one price point, but since I have the same manufacturer working on another little goodie at the same time I am going to see if I can do an add in bonus deal on this one when we hit a decent number of people on the list.
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