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Old 01-30-2013, 02:56 PM   #2626
auskip07
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Originally Posted by Oceanguy View Post
Nothing to contribute here - just feel as though pointing out the usage of made up statistics of the number of Imprezas sold and number of vehicles "burning" oil has to be extremely low kind of goes out the window for me now (less than 2% was the number IIRC). If that were the case, the odds of CR getting an oil burner would have been that same low statistic (2%)... Thanks to those that follow the thread and contribute outside information with links.
I think it was good advice to start compiling owners with the issue to arm yourself better if the need arises - these outside links like CR are also very helpful and maybe shines a light on a possible issue with the fuel saving oil or possible other explanations.
do we know how low it has to get before the light comes on?
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:11 PM   #2627
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If Consumer Reports identifies problematic oil consumption with their test Impreza I am sure they will do more than write an article about 0w-20 being hard to find and expensive. The fact that they had a low oil light come on is not evidence that all cars or most cars or even their car has an issue -- let's see if they mention it again.

If their car is among the excessive oil burners, it will probably speed up the process by which SOA addresses the issue (publicity would be good for those of you with cars using oil).

However, I don't think you understand statistics. Even 'if' CR has a car that is burning excessive oil, it does not mean more than 2% of cars are burning oil. They may have gotten one that is within the small percent of oil burners.

See how that works, it neither proves nor disproves anything, and until CR jumps out with a statement about their tester having a consumption issue everyone is just trying to read what they want to read into it, instead of reading what CR actually wrote -- OW-20 is hard to find and expensive and maybe overkill for MPG's.
Please post your link to the statics you speak of? You know, so I may be able to understand how yours work... Otherwise, defending made up statistics prove (or disprove) absolutely nothing. This thread has brought to light that oil consumption - while it may be within the SOA and other manufacturer's acceptable levels (kind of nice to be able to make up your own rules - but I accept them), having your oil light come on in between scheduled maintenance is disappointing to say the least. By the way, CR also wrote "This point hit home recently when I was driving our Subaru Impreza test car on the highway and the low oil warning light came on." I don't think that is "everyone is just trying to read what they want to read into it," rather I feel it is indicative of someone trying to distract from their statement of the oil light coming on.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:18 PM   #2628
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Thanks, oceanguy. Well said.
I dont see how anyone outside soa would have any statistics. Inflated egos, yes, but no statistics.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:24 PM   #2629
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I'm still trying to find info on WHEN and HOW the sae threshold of 1qt per 1000 miles was established.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:30 PM   #2630
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I don't know if CR would be alarmed about consumption even if their test car is consuming oil. For all they know, their car could be the outlier. Now if CR's annual auto survey data starts to reveal a trend, then that's something that would get CR's attention.

Or maybe not. As you know, I don't have a fondness for VW TDIs, having owned a problematic one. Many people on the VW forums are reporting High Pressure Fuel Pump (HPFP) issues. This has manifested itself as a Fuel System black dot on the CR reliability charts for the VW TDIs. But CR hasn't done anything more about it than print these black dots. It's not like CR is writing articles about VWs with a relatively high percentage of HPFP failures. They're just letting the black dots do all the talking.

What more do you think CR would do even if their own Impreza consumed oil?
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:37 PM   #2631
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I'm still trying to find info on WHEN and HOW the sae threshold of 1qt per 1000 miles was established.
My "Oil Consumption Analysis" form from the dealership states something to the effect of 1200 miles and 1 quart. I will try to scan it and post it if I can figure out how to do that. I am not saying that I was the when or how - just substantiating the info that I have in my possession.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:38 PM   #2632
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How ironic. CR does an article on expensive oil in economy cars and their new Impreza chimed in with a low oil warning.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:39 PM   #2633
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do we know how low it has to get before the light comes on?
My experience is a quart low - or hitting the bottom of the oil dipstick.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:51 PM   #2634
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Mines bout the same.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:52 PM   #2635
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Originally Posted by Oceanguy View Post
Please post your link to the statics you speak of? You know, so I may be able to understand how yours work... Otherwise, defending made up statistics prove (or disprove) absolutely nothing. This thread has brought to light that oil consumption - while it may be within the SOA and other manufacturer's acceptable levels (kind of nice to be able to make up your own rules - but I accept them), having your oil light come on in between scheduled maintenance is disappointing to say the least. By the way, CR also wrote "This point hit home recently when I was driving our Subaru Impreza test car on the highway and the low oil warning light came on." I don't think that is "everyone is just trying to read what they want to read into it," rather I feel it is indicative of someone trying to distract from their statement of the oil light coming on.
Have you ever used the Search feature? Try it now, it is all in this very thread, and my numbers are just that, my numbers. But at least I tell you where I derive them, to arrive at my best guess. But that is how you estimate, you take known numbers (number sold) and you look at how many unique cars are reported to burn oil, and then you use math to guess a percent affected. At least that is how I estimated 1%.

I don't read a sentence in an article about 0w-20 and think the sky is falling and all or many or most Imprezas are or will burn oil. There is no evidence of that, unless you care to provide better numbers than I already gathered.

My guess is that won't happen.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:57 PM   #2636
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Oceanguy- you are correct about subaru's allowance. It is 1.1quart per 1200 miles.
The standard SAE allowance is often cited, at a quart per 1000 but I havent found anything about when or how that data was established.
My contention is that the sae allowance was set long ago. A.d that there isnt a good excuse for these "modern engines" to be burning oil like its 1975.

I also speculated long ago that CR probably werent checking their dipstick per the manual at every other fuel-up. Hell- they had to dig up the owners manual to see what kind of oil it takes... Real scientific people over there, they hadnt even opened the owners manual.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:58 PM   #2637
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Have you ever used the Search feature? Try it now, it is all in this very thread, and my numbers are just that, my numbers. But at least I tell you where I derive them, to arrive at my best guess.

I don't read a sentence in an article about 0w-20 and think the sky is falling and all or many or most Imprezas are or will burn oil. There is no evidence of that, unless you care to provide better numbers than I already gathered.

My guess is that won't happen.
So you have nothing but a guess - that was what I already knew. Don't need a search feature for that. You took the numbers from a poll on this site and discredited it with your best guess and your personal feelings and everyone else should just keep to themselves or you are chicken little. Understood. Thanks for your analysis.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:01 PM   #2638
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Originally Posted by CLL_OBP View Post
How ironic. CR does an article on expensive oil in economy cars and their new Impreza chimed in with a low oil warning.
Isnt it ironic, dont ya think?
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:03 PM   #2639
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Originally Posted by Oceanguy View Post
So you have nothing but a guess - that was what I already knew. Don't need a search feature for that. You took the numbers from a poll on this site and discredited it with your best guess and your personal feelings and everyone else should just keep to themselves or you are chicken little. Understood. Thanks for your analysis.
That pretty much sums it up.
A few people on here really seem to have only one objective, to discredit any accounts of oil-burning turd engines.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:08 PM   #2640
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Originally Posted by Oceanguy View Post
So you have nothing but a guess - that was what I already knew. Don't need a search feature for that. You took the numbers from a poll on this site and discredited it with your best guess and your personal feelings and everyone else should just keep to themselves or you are chicken little. Understood. Thanks for your analysis.
That poll cant be voted in, unless you have a high enough post count. So google searches that find that poll dont result in votes.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:09 PM   #2641
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Originally Posted by Oceanguy View Post
So you have nothing but a guess - that was what I already knew. Don't need a search feature for that. You took the numbers from a poll on this site and discredited it with your best guess and your personal feelings and everyone else should just keep to themselves or you are chicken little. Understood. Thanks for your analysis.
Actually, I didn't use the poll numbers at all (they are not at all statistically significant, as I explained earlier, but you refuse to Search this thread, so you didn't know that).

You are acting as if you can discredit my estimate while simulaneously are completely ignorant about how I arrived at the numbers I arrived at, and why.

There is no point debating someone who is too lazy to follow the entire discussion, sorry, I am not interested in retyping something that is easily found using the Search feature. That's why they provide a Search feature, you really ought to learn to try that out.

Instead you just want to jump in late and pretend you know something that you obviously have no clue about.

I'll let you and 79 give each other hugs, there is obviously nothing to be gained by chatting with you when you are too lazy to read the discussions that occured before you piped in with your opinions.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:20 PM   #2642
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So when did this become the rip Zeeper apart thread the guy made an educated guess ie hypothesized a number it is not set in stone just a best guess estimate based on info at the time. You can disagree with it all you want but after you do how about giving us some more avenues to explore or some other figure that we can use as a baseline. 79 you have an axe to grind yet you still haven't found the free time to go get the consumption test you said you would go have done. You incessant back and forth increases this thread without any productive results you do more disservice than you can imagine to the very issue you are working to have resolved. I am not saying we all have to agree god knows there are things I disagree with based on my own experience that doesn't mean I can't listen and then make a decision based off my best guess however I do try quite hard to avoid unnecessary jabs and berating others or trying to rip others apart for the benefits of my own ego.

Don't be mad bros
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:22 PM   #2643
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I have read 106 pages of this thread because I have a vested interest in the outcome of oil consumption - I discredited your statistics because they are not statistics at all. You took a known variable (number of cars sold) and applied your guess as to the number of cars consuming oil. Enough said. You have nothing to offer. Use the search to view my post. They will generally provide a link to how I came to my thinking. You, however, have nothing to provide but feel as though you have some statistical analysis to provide. Please point me to your post to the information outside of your guessing a number to plug in and call it a statistic. Since you are completely unable to grasp the english language, I have offered you a definition: sta·tis·tic [stuh-tis-tik] Show IPA
noun Statistics.
a numerical fact or datum, especially one computed from a sample. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/statistic?s=t
Good day
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:31 PM   #2644
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Originally Posted by Oceanguy View Post
I have read 106 pages of this thread because I have a vested interest in the outcome of oil consumption - I discredited your statistics because they are not statistics at all. You took a known variable (number of cars sold) and applied your guess as to the number of cars consuming oil. Enough said. You have nothing to offer.
I showed my math, you can plug in your best guess as to how many cars are burning oil into the very same equation and tell us what percent of cars you estimate are burning oil. No one actually knows for sure how many cars are burning oil, but it is possible to estimate if you use what we do know. Estimate, not confirm.

Whoever read my post can agree or disagree, but I said it was an estimate, and showed where I derived the numbers I chose. I estimated much higher than the known cases of oil consumption to arrive at my less than 2% figure.

Anyway, it is clear this is more emotional than mathematical for you. I'll add you to my ignore list so that we both have peace of mind, or even if you don't, at least I will.

On a side note if my car consumed oil, by now I would have a list off forum of names and numbers of people here, as well as anyone else who wanted to add their name to the list, with the express purpose of approaching SAO as a group seeking remediation.

It's too bad for you that my car does not burn oil, because unlike you, I would have already been taking action to try and remedy the problem, not just bloviating on an anonymous internet forum.

I also doubt, somehow, that I would be undermining my relationship with the dealer needed to rectify the problem, once SOA comes up with a solution

Last edited by Zeeper; 01-30-2013 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:46 PM   #2645
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However, I don't think you understand statistics. Even 'if' CR has a car that is burning excessive oil, it does not mean more than 1% (2% was actually my highest estimate) of cars are burning oil. They may have gotten one that is within the small percent of oil burners.
Not emotional at all - when someone doesn't think I understand something, I like to make it clear that I do. In fact I pointed out your failure to understand that which you espouse. I feel no need to defend nor attack anyone on any forum. I feel that providing incorrect data is just as harmful as providing made up information. I did point out that your recommendation was useful and helpful so I am not saying you do not provide anything useful. I have read your input on the fumoto valve as well as asked for your opinion on an ebay manual. My point has been made on your use of made up information...
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:47 PM   #2646
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well done

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Old 01-30-2013, 04:56 PM   #2647
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I really didnt see anyone being ripped apart. ive sure had my share of sand kicked in my face. Its the internet...
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:26 PM   #2648
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The reason I'm not rushing to a dealer an hour and a half away is that I am not burning a quart in 1200 miles. I'm getting closer, though.
I have a service appt due at 21k and that will be in the summer.
So in the meantime, I'm discussing the situation with other owners, and digging up links to other tidbits having to do with the discussion.
The CR thing is pretty huge, considering all the talk about CR from certain parties on this thread.
Notice how Zeeper has to convey intellectual superiority with almost every word he posts?
And how he has to belittle and insult all us lesser beings.
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:28 PM   #2649
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I should get some links from Edmunds... Theres a lot of oil consumption discussion going on there.
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:44 PM   #2650
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I really didnt see anyone being ripped apart. ive sure had my share of sand kicked in my face. Its the internet...
You bring it on yourself
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