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Old 09-26-2013, 01:37 PM   #4201
Angelus911
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You would think with the cars burning oil, they would want a little extra in the car

In all seriousness, it makes me wonder too if my small oil consumption will get worse over time. What will it be like at 60k? 120k? I wonder if they manufacture the new cars with these larger rings
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:44 PM   #4202
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Originally Posted by Angelus911 View Post
I wonder if they manufacture the new cars with these larger rings
What makes you think that the ring size has changed? My interpretations is that the finish of the rings has changed, not their dimensions.
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Old 09-26-2013, 01:54 PM   #4203
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Originally Posted by chubs73 View Post
No block replacement unless walls scored too much. They have standard ring. 0.25 and 0.50 oversized rings available
Unless I misunderstood I thought this was part of the fix
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Old 09-26-2013, 03:06 PM   #4204
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Originally Posted by Angelus911 View Post
I wonder if they manufacture the new cars with these larger rings
This is the million dollar question for me. Are the '14s going to be "fixed"?

First post, but have been following this thread for a while.

I really need to downsize vehicles and knock the gas mileage out of the park due to a significant change to my length of commute. I also need at least AWD where I live. Impreza fits this bill like no other car, really. Test drove it and like it. But I'm coming from an Xterra, which is essentially bullet-proof, and if I have to baby-sit oil consumption like a bratty kid, I'm going to be ticked.
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Old 09-26-2013, 04:12 PM   #4205
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Well they have a tsb for the PAPER wrapped seat springs sqeaking, yet they still dont put the bushings on the seat frames. You have to complain about your cheapo seat and wait to get it fixed.
Why did subaru go so far with their denials of the rings being a problem?
Its not a vin-range, its every fb except the first year of foresters with that engine.
From what techs have told me the 11' fozzys are the worst fb oil burners.
This will, imo, most likely take some of that "legendary resale value" away,but rightly so. I would never buy a used fb or fa engined subaru. the warranty is pretty hard to cash in on a BRAND NEW car a month old,I couldnt even imagine if it had 30k on it...
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Old 09-26-2013, 04:14 PM   #4206
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There is one thing for sure- It most definitely isnt just some ''unique individuals" anymore.
I guess the dealer people werent kidding when they said subaru was starting to admit the problem was real.
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Old 09-26-2013, 05:24 PM   #4207
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Originally Posted by 79letour View Post
Well they have a tsb for the PAPER wrapped seat springs sqeaking, yet they still dont put the bushings on the seat frames. You have to complain about your cheapo seat and wait to get it fixed.
Why did subaru go so far with their denials of the rings being a problem?
Its not a vin-range, its every fb except the first year of foresters with that engine.
From what techs have told me the 11' fozzys are the worst fb oil burners.
This will, imo, most likely take some of that "legendary resale value" away,but rightly so. I would never buy a used fb or fa engined subaru. the warranty is pretty hard to cash in on a BRAND NEW car a month old,I couldnt even imagine if it had 30k on it...
The larger the scope, the longer it takes for companies to admit a problem. Since this covers almost every FB engine, I suspect they were really dragging things out to see if there was any way to avoid actually dealing with the problem.
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Old 09-26-2013, 05:30 PM   #4208
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Originally Posted by ocellaris View Post
You are dealing with extremely small mechanical tolerances on an assembled engine. Thousandths of an inch can be the different between losing oil and running file. Also it could be an issue with material quality, not all the rings or engine blocks are manufactured at the same time in the same plant with the same stock material for construction. During parts production, the tools needed to make parts get replaced at well. Parts can each be within tolerance but still cause a failure when combined with other parts.
As far as I understand, all fb20 engines for north america are made in the same plant. If I'm reading the TSB correctly, the issue is the coating on the rings which shouldn't have anything to do with tooling issues. There still seems to be pieces missing to the puzzle.

How does this cover only a "limited" number of vehicles but the TSB doesn't specify which vehicles it's limited to, only saying 2012-2013? Were they experimenting with ring coatings? Did they have more than one vendor supplying rings? Did the ring vendor(s) have an issue? OR does this really affect ALL 2012-2013 N/A Imprezas with "limited" meaning limited to 2012 and 2013s?
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Old 09-26-2013, 05:33 PM   #4209
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Originally Posted by nels0300 View Post
As far as I understand, all fb20 engines for north america are made in the same plant. If I'm reading the TSB correctly, the issue is the coating on the rings which shouldn't have anything to do with tooling issues. There still seems to be pieces missing to the puzzle.
Tools apply the coating, one way or another.
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Old 09-26-2013, 05:41 PM   #4210
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Tools work at SOA!
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Old 09-26-2013, 05:44 PM   #4211
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Originally Posted by ocellaris View Post
Tools apply the coating, one way or another.
True.

My main question is how Subaru can say it applies to a "limited" number of vehicles without specifying which vehicles. They would have to know which vehicles in order to be able to say "limited".
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:09 AM   #4212
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From what I understand vehicles with build dates 2/13 and newer have the new ring design
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:12 AM   #4213
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Originally Posted by john_coctostan View Post

This is the million dollar question for me. Are the '14s going to be "fixed"?

First post, but have been following this thread for a while.

I really need to downsize vehicles and knock the gas mileage out of the park due to a significant change to my length of commute. I also need at least AWD where I live. Impreza fits this bill like no other car, really. Test drove it and like it. But I'm coming from an Xterra, which is essentially bullet-proof, and if I have to baby-sit oil consumption like a bratty kid, I'm going to be ticked.
The only 14's affected are 14 foresters due to their early build date. All fb engines with build dates after 2/13 have uodated rings
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:15 AM   #4214
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I did not see in the TSB posted here where it read 1/3 in 1200 miles. That is the official new standard for the test? I know chubs mentioned that initially.
The tsb refers to the new fb engine oil consumotion form. Vehicke has ro have at least 3,000 mikes. And doesn't require 4 trips to establish. First trip it is down the 1/3 meets the requirements of the tsb
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Old 09-27-2013, 08:04 AM   #4215
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From what I understand vehicles with build dates 2/13 and newer have the new ring design
So how does the TSB only apply to a "limited number of vehicles"?

I'd guess it applies to over half the vehicles Subaru sold in 2012-2013 if it's all FB engines.
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Old 09-27-2013, 08:35 AM   #4216
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Originally Posted by nels0300 View Post
As far as I understand, all fb20 engines for north america are made in the same plant. If I'm reading the TSB correctly, the issue is the coating on the rings which shouldn't have anything to do with tooling issues. There still seems to be pieces missing to the puzzle.

How does this cover only a "limited" number of vehicles but the TSB doesn't specify which vehicles it's limited to, only saying 2012-2013? Were they experimenting with ring coatings? Did they have more than one vendor supplying rings? Did the ring vendor(s) have an issue? OR does this really affect ALL 2012-2013 N/A Imprezas with "limited" meaning limited to 2012 and 2013s?
Its listed on your car sheet where the engine was assembled and where your car was assembled. Both were assembled in Japan but different territories/states/what ever they call them, from what i remember when i was reading mine.
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Old 09-27-2013, 08:44 AM   #4217
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Originally Posted by nels0300 View Post
So how does the TSB only apply to a "limited number of vehicles"?

I'd guess it applies to over half the vehicles Subaru sold in 2012-2013 if it's all FB engines.
We already know that most cars built before 2/13 don't have a problem. My Impreza was built 4/12, and it doesn't consume oil.

So I think when Subaru says "limited number of vehicles", that's their way of saying that only cars showing the oil-consuming symptom are affected. It would be unwise to replace the rings on all cars built before 2/13 regardless of whether they are consuming oil or not.

I, for one, do not want my Impreza's rings replaced. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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Old 09-27-2013, 08:50 AM   #4218
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Its listed on your car sheet where the engine was assembled and where your car was assembled. Both were assembled in Japan but different territories/states/what ever they call them, from what i remember when i was reading mine.
Just a quick google search shows all Imprezas come from Gunma, Japan and all FBs are made at a new factory Subaru built just for that engine.
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Old 09-27-2013, 08:54 AM   #4219
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We already know that most cars built before 2/13 don't have a problem. My Impreza was built 4/12, and it doesn't consume oil.

So I think when Subaru says "limited number of vehicles", that's their way of saying that only cars showing the oil-consuming symptom are affected. It would be unwise to replace the rings on all cars built before 2/13 regardless of whether they are consuming oil or not.

I, for one, do not want my Impreza's rings replaced. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I don't want my rings replaced either, but my car does consume oil. Who wants a new car with a engine that's been torn down? The dealer WILL screw something up, guaranteed.

I really want to know what it is about the coating of the rings that makes some vehicles use oil, but not others.
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Old 09-27-2013, 09:05 AM   #4220
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Originally Posted by chubs73 View Post
The only 14's affected are 14 foresters due to their early build date. All fb engines with build dates after 2/13 have uodated rings
Very good to know. Thank you very much. Definitely gives me reason to be optimistic.
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Old 09-27-2013, 09:29 AM   #4221
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I read that tsb on another site, and it said it still requires the car to burn the 1.1 quarts in 1200 miles. Thats whats posted on XV Forum. I'll try to get the tsb in its entirety and not rewritten. But I'm not paying SOA to download pdf's.
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Old 09-27-2013, 09:33 AM   #4222
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Again, after having read this thread over the months, I understand how those affected by the rings are upset. I've never owned a Subaru, but I've always considered it a top car name.

Subaru is not the only top car maker to have a rather large problem.

I had an '04 Tacoma. Loved that truck. That thing was amazing. Come to find out the 98-04 model year had the wrong mix in the alloy for the frame, and they were rusting out, bigtime. I fell victim to that. I was able to dump the truck on a dealer, but my frame was perforating after 5 years. Others were having total frame replacements. Heavy duty surgery there.

The Xterra I have (2010)... the first three years of the design 05-07 had a major problem. The tranny cooler circulated through the bottom of the radiator beneath the engine coolant. The transmission fluid was corrosive to the layer of metal separating the fluid from the coolant, and eventually would fail allowing the coolant into the transmission. This has lovingly been dubbed the "strawberry milkshake of death", as the transmission fluid looked like a frothy milkshake when the transmission failed.

Toyota backed the frame issue fairly well. Nissan extended transmission warranties, but it's not as good as what Toyota did.

But at least the Subaru problem is not on par with these. Again, I totally understand why people with an oil user are pissed. A new car should be better.
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:31 AM   #4223
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These new developments make it a lot clearer why (so far, knock on wood) my 3/13 built XV hasnt burnt any oil yet, while my 10/11 Impreza required top-offs and low oil lights.

Btw- my dads 99 toyota had a rotten frame pretty quickly too.
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:33 AM   #4224
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^^ Nicely written post, John. Good job. I enjoyed the "strawberry milkshake of death" reference.

What is your profession, if you don't mind me asking? I'm a technical writer, so I appreciate your post.
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:35 AM   #4225
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Originally Posted by 79letour View Post
These new developments make it a lot clearer why (so far, knock on wood) my 3/13 built XV hasnt burnt any oil yet, while my 10/11 Impreza required top-offs and low oil lights.
Yes, but as you know, not every FB engine built before 2/13 is an oil consumer. In fact, most are not.
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