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Old 12-16-2013, 09:58 PM   #4476
79letour
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rememo View Post
I emailed SOA, again, the same night I picked up the car. I included the photos and expressed my extreme displeasure with the dealer and Subaru. I even mentioned the new TSB regarding the coating on the oil control rings.

The response I received was incredibly generic, telling me to work with the dealer and that SOA could monitor my progress should I desire.

I haven't emailed the service manager yet, although I just received their performance survey.

Now I know why many of you with consumption issues have simply decided to trade the vehicle in.

I just put together a list of all of the cars I've owned in my lifetime, and whether or not they burned oil. I have always done my own maintenance, so I was always aware of what was going on with each automobile.

1972 Toyota Corolla - No
1974 Toyota Corolla - No
1975 AMC Hornet - Yes (piece of junk)
1972 Volkswagon Beetle - No
1979 Jeep CJ5 - No (leaked some though)
1986 Nissan 200SX - No
1997 Nissan Kingcab 4X4 - No
1996 Subaru Impreza - No
1998 Honda Accord - No
1998 Honda Passport - No (leaked oil from bad head gasket)
2001 Nissan Sentra 2.0 - No (5800 mile trip out west. Mountains, deserts, never burned a drop)
2003 Ford Ranger 4X4 V6 - No (6500 mile trip out west. Mountains, deserts, never burned a drop)
2012 Ford Focus - No
2013 Subaru Impreza - YES

But hey... Subaru says it's normal for all cars to burn oil.
Be careful. Your dealer are obviously as shady as has become the norm. The grass probably isnt much greener... My current dealer are good but most are as crooked as any other car dealers. I answered that customer satisfaction survey honestly once and got a call from soa saying I wasnt allowed back at that dealer. "The low CS scores can have you banned from a dealer" and "any dealer can refuse any customer at any time for any reason" are both actual company policy for soa. THEY DO NOT LIKE CONSUMERS STANDING ON THEIR RIGHTS
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Old 12-18-2013, 04:49 PM   #4477
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Only 2000 miles into my second oil change since my short block / heads replacement and the oil light has already been on for 500+ miles now. Still burning oil like a champ... POS
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Old 12-18-2013, 05:08 PM   #4478
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Only 2000 miles into my second oil change since my short block / heads replacement and the oil light has already been on for 500+ miles now. Still burning oil like a champ... POS
man: so sorry to hear this.
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Old 12-18-2013, 05:15 PM   #4479
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Only 2000 miles into my second oil change since my short block / heads replacement and the oil light has already been on for 500+ miles now. Still burning oil like a champ... POS
That sucks bro- it makes you wonder how, if they actually knew what caused it, would a new long block not fix it. I wonder if they were playing the odds and threw in an engine they had already manufactured prior to the "oil ring" fix without updating the rings.
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Old 12-18-2013, 05:52 PM   #4480
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If there is anyone reading this thread who can post the VINs, or even manufacturing dates covered by the oil control ring TSB, it would be much appreciated.
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Old 12-18-2013, 07:37 PM   #4481
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Originally Posted by jr0bb5 View Post
Only 2000 miles into my second oil change since my short block / heads replacement and the oil light has already been on for 500+ miles now. Still burning oil like a champ... POS
I really feel for you, terrible situation to be in. My car is consuming more each interval, currently 1.1qts down 3400 miles into my OCI.

Leaves many of us to decide to 1) keep it and see what problems arise down the road from the consumption 2) try and get ring replaced under warranty (although your experience does not give me much hope here or) 3) trade it in on something else and take a hit financially.

Was really hoping to keep this car for 100,000+ miles, but dont think that will happen.
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Old 12-19-2013, 12:59 AM   #4482
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Originally Posted by Chris793 View Post

I really feel for you, terrible situation to be in. My car is consuming more each interval, currently 1.1qts down 3400 miles into my OCI.

Leaves many of us to decide to 1) keep it and see what problems arise down the road from the consumption 2) try and get ring replaced under warranty (although your experience does not give me much hope here or) 3) trade it in on something else and take a hit financially.

Was really hoping to keep this car for 100,000+ miles, but dont think that will happen.
Unfortunately for you, 1.1 quarts in 3400 miles isn't even close to enough for you get anything replaced under warranty. Maybe you'll eventually get there, but your warranty will probably be up by then.

Seeing that my new engine is still consuming oil at an alarming rate, but not enough for Subaru to replace again, I'm leaning towards getting rid of the car before my power train warranty is up. That will probably be in another year for me considering I drive a lot.
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Old 12-19-2013, 09:08 AM   #4483
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^That sucks man, but I would do the same thing if it were me. I would probably sell it sooner than later as well in case anything else goes to hell.
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Old 12-19-2013, 10:31 AM   #4484
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Can someone explain the economics of adding an extra quart per oil change vs replacing the car?

Mine has burned as much as 1qt in 3500mi. No issue with power or economy, and UOAs are excellent.
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Old 12-19-2013, 10:40 AM   #4485
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Can someone explain the economics of adding an extra quart per oil change vs replacing the car?

Mine has burned as much as 1qt in 3500mi. No issue with power or economy, and UOAs are excellent.
it has been posted in this thread multiple times. basically you spend a few extra hundred in oil over the life of the car.

i think it is a mentality problem. our jetta consistently goes through an extra 1.5-3qts per change (10k, depending on oil i use, but the full saps formula amsoil i have been using seems to be the least amount at about 1.5-2qts) it has done this for the last 120k miles. we bought it with 28k on it and I don't know if it was a lease or someone just wasn't happy with the consumption but it was only 2 years old when we bought it.

yeah, it sometimes sucks to have to add oil, and the oil for the jetta costs me nearly double what it does for the subaru, but even so in the last 12 oil changes i have added up to a total of 30qts of oil (some of it ungodly expensive europoean branded stuff at over 10/qt) i still haven't spent more than 300 extra in oil

i'm happy that my Impreza doesn't use too much oil, and the level doesn't seem to begin to drop until the oil starts breaking down at about 4k, then it the level will start to drop. it has dropped more this time because i have been out driving like a maniac in the snow I don't want to have an oil burner, and certainly i am no where near as bad as some of the others, or even my friends BMW which according to the first owner he bought it from has lost 1qt/2000 miles for the entire life of the car (90k miles now). but if i need to add 1 qt during the interval then so be it, it is much cheaper to add the oil than to replace the car.

Last edited by flyboy1100; 12-19-2013 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 12-19-2013, 10:44 AM   #4486
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Quote:
it has been posted in this thread multiple times. basically you spend a few extra hundred in oil over the life of the car.
That's what I came up with, but I was wondering how others were justifying dumping the car over relatively low consumption rates.
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:21 AM   #4487
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^apart from the annoyance of adding oil every 2000 miles or so, you also dont know the effect of burning so much oil on the engine at 100,000 or 150,000 miles.

I thought I remember seeing jr0bb5 say that he saw the teardown of the engine and it was extremely dirty, it looked more like an engine with 5x the mileage on it?

Also, its apparent that Subaru doesn't know the root cause of the problem, so there's that to deal with as well
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:45 AM   #4488
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Originally Posted by Angelus911 View Post
^apart from the annoyance of adding oil every 2000 miles or so, you also dont know the effect of burning so much oil on the engine at 100,000 or 150,000 miles.

I thought I remember seeing jr0bb5 say that he saw the teardown of the engine and it was extremely dirty, it looked more like an engine with 5x the mileage on it?

Also, its apparent that Subaru doesn't know the root cause of the problem, so there's that to deal with as well
This is also what I am concerned about. If I knew that just adding a couple of extra qt's every 6500 miles would cause no issues, and keep the car running great well after 100,000 miles, then it would be an easier pill to swallow. But many of us, myself included now, are seeing the rate of consumption increase every OCI.

Some have briefly touched on a few issues that can arise from a car that consumes oil at an abnormal rate. Im not 100% sure, correct me if I am wrong, but excessive carbon buildup, clogged cat, valve stems, cylinder walls, and potential detonation or knock are a few I think I have glanced over here.

Even if we do qualify for a ring replacement, or new short block, I am not sure its a true fix. Jrobb still having problems after a new short block is discouraging. Even if I qualified for new rings, I am not sure I would want them. These cars do not seem to hold their values as well as other cars I have owned, so who knows what kind of hit it would take from a piston ring recall replacement.

Everyone has different uses for their cars, so for some, topping off the oil every 2-3000 miles will suffice. That might not work for others who purchased the car planning of keeping it 5+ years and put 100,000+ miles on it.
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:50 AM   #4489
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Originally Posted by Commander Keen View Post
That's what I came up with, but I was wondering how others were justifying dumping the car over relatively low consumption rates.
I'm lucky thus far, knock on wood! I agree its more economical to add oil and move on. It's not at all uncommon anymore with these "efficient" engines that are regulated to reach a certain mpg standard to burn oil. That almost seems counter productive if you think about it. It's not only a Subaru issue, I think its pretty much across the board. I know Audi and VW have troubles, GM has had them for years as well. My Tahoe seeps antifreeze thru the heads supposedly from the number casting the manufacturer put on them. It is very frustrating though, to buy a new car and have issues like this. It should not be the case at all. My fear is even beyond this, with more fuel changes coming we will see more and more negative affects to our cars. We put a fuel pump in one of the work trucks the other day. You should have seen what melted mess we removed from the tank. I'm wondering if its not really a faulty part causing oil burn, rather a flaw in the whole concept and general design to achieve numbers they are required to achieve. I might even be a little less concerned about a little oil burn if it were a turbo car, but an N/A car I think should be a little tighter than that. Idk I'm not an engineer, and have fairly limited knowledge with regards to engine design.
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:55 AM   #4490
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Everyone has different uses for their cars, so for some, topping off the oil every 2-3000 miles will suffice. That might not work for others who purchased the car planning of keeping it 5+ years and put 100,000+ miles on it.
i planned to drive this car for 10yrs/250k. I hope to make it there, already at 36k on the odometer. my consumption rate has been pretty steady at 1qt/about 8000miles, with the exception of my 2nd oil change where it was looking like 1qt/4000 miles. it has been really steady otherwise, and it hasn't mattered which type of oil, although Amsoil signature was for sure the lowest consumption amount at .7/8200 miles, so 1qt/9600miles

i might subscribe to the techinfo for a few days to just get the newest tsb's and save them
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Old 12-19-2013, 12:16 PM   #4491
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Originally Posted by Commander Keen View Post
Can someone explain the economics of adding an extra quart per oil change vs replacing the car?

Mine has burned as much as 1qt in 3500mi. No issue with power or economy, and UOAs are excellent.
This issue has almost nothing to do with economics. Its a consumer confidence and customer service issue.
Having been on the frontlines of this for quite a while, its amazing that people think its normal to have a major defect on a brand new car.
I've not seen anyone who mentioned the actual cost of the top offs as the reason for having no faith or confidence in their new Subaru that burns oil.
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Old 12-19-2013, 01:17 PM   #4492
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just so we are clear jr0bb5, does a lot of short distance driving which contributed to the condition of how his engine looked when they teared it apart. He also should not be operating on a normal oci of 7k or so based on how the car is driven aka severe service.

a qt of 0w20 at napa cost 3.49 when on sale, napa branded oil is made by ashland which makes valvoline.

UPDATE: change price from 3.50 to 3.49 what can i say bad memory

Last edited by aeoporta; 12-19-2013 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 12-19-2013, 01:41 PM   #4493
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This issue has almost nothing to do with economics.
It has even less to do with performance, economy, reliability or anything that could be considered a valid complaint.

I see complaints about what a new car should do, shouldn't do, or might do 150K miles from now.

In essence, SOA is supposed to eat a multi-thousand dollar bill because some owners don't want to buy $5 of oil every 3500 miles.

Have engines blown up because of this issue? Has anyone been left stranded?
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Old 12-19-2013, 01:53 PM   #4494
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In essence, SOA is supposed to eat a multi-thousand dollar bill because some owners don't want to buy $5 of oil every 3500 miles.

I don't know where you live but $5 a qt for oil is way too expensive for me I am gonna carpool so my passenger can pay for the oil







http://www.petroleumservicecompany.com/1057222.html
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Old 12-19-2013, 02:03 PM   #4495
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Everyone has different uses for their cars, so for some, topping off the oil every 2-3000 miles will suffice. That might not work for others who purchased the car planning of keeping it 5+ years and put 100,000+ miles on it.
to add further

1qt/3000miles for 250,000 miles = 83 quarts @ 4.00/qt = 332.00, or about 33.00/yr @ 25k/yr

no one has any idea about what will happen when the engines start to get 100k+ miles on them yet, i have only seen 1 person who probably is close to that by now
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Old 12-19-2013, 02:04 PM   #4496
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Originally Posted by Commander Keen View Post
It has even less to do with performance, economy, reliability or anything that could be considered a valid complaint.

I see complaints about what a new car should do, shouldn't do, or might do 150K miles from now.

In essence, SOA is supposed to eat a multi-thousand dollar bill because some owners don't want to buy $5 of oil every 3500 miles.

Have engines blown up because of this issue? Has anyone been left stranded?
Ok, I'm sure you'd be signing the same tune if you were in jr0bb5's position, who had a defect found and then "fixed" - but it isn't fixed. So how does that make you feel about the future of your investment in a car? What if consumption goes up over time to a point where its a quart for every 800 miles? And you're out of warranty, and out of luck?

Sorry, if I spent $24k on a car that was like jr0bb5's, I wouldn't be all to happy with it at all.
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Old 12-19-2013, 02:22 PM   #4497
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Originally Posted by flyboy1100 View Post
to add further

1qt/3000miles for 250,000 miles = 83 quarts @ 4.00/qt = 332.00, or about 33.00/yr @ 25k/yr

no one has any idea about what will happen when the engines start to get 100k+ miles on them yet, i have only seen 1 person who probably is close to that by now
I agree and $332 over the life of the car is a small cost to incur. The only problem though is that it assumes that the car will maintain the current rate of consumption. We all know that rings get worn with age and miles, which increases oil consumption. If the consumption rate is slowly increasing with 25,000 miles I cant imagine what it will be at 75,000. But your right, we have no idea what these car will do with higher mileage.

The bottom line, for me at least, is that any oil consumption over a few ounces (0.5qt's) during a cars manufacturer recommended OCI is not normal, or acceptable. Im definitely not an engineer by any stretch of the imagination, but I have worked in the automotive industry for 10yrs, mainly the motor sports side. In that time I have worked with close to a dozen manufactures (not subaru as of yet) and have never encountered a new car that consumes oil. Just my take on the situation..
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Old 12-19-2013, 02:41 PM   #4498
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Ok, I'm sure you'd be signing the same tune if you were in jr0bb5's position, who had a defect found and then "fixed" - but it isn't fixed. So how does that make you feel about the future of your investment in a car? What if consumption goes up over time to a point where its a quart for every 800 miles? And you're out of warranty, and out of luck?
If his consumption rate is still beyond SOA limits, Subaru should fix it.

My comments were meant for those with moderate consumption.

Those with serious consumption have noticed it quickly. I haven't seen any cases where consumption suddenly varied after 10K miles.
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Old 12-19-2013, 03:25 PM   #4499
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^They did fix it, and it didn't work. I think that's the more worrying part of this
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Old 12-19-2013, 05:07 PM   #4500
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Originally Posted by Commander Keen View Post
If his consumption rate is still beyond SOA limits, Subaru should fix it.

My comments were meant for those with moderate consumption.

Those with serious consumption have noticed it quickly. I haven't seen any cases where consumption suddenly varied after 10K miles.
Every engine is going to wear with age. Most people dont see appreciable oil consumption in a brand new car. Its usually after hundreds of thousands of miles that anyone has this become an issue. So- if one has a brand new car burning oil at the rate of a worn out POS, it is indeed going to kill that person's confidence in that car. It isn't very hard for a reasonable person to see how this would feel.
Jrobb's car is obviously in the pos category. Just because he makes deliveries doesnt mean his car is normal burning oil like it does. I did very short delivery runs for a living when I was younger, and my 96 Cherokee 4.0 never EVER lost oil with 180k+ on it.
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