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Old 05-24-2012, 08:57 PM   #76
subiTWO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nubsub View Post
i'm debating now aout trying to put in 4.3 qts and see where that comes up on the dipstick before putting in the whole 5 qts and seeing where that comes up on the dipstick.

Don't forget to idle the engine, to get oil into the filter...
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:46 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by subiTWO View Post
Most every Subie oil pan is about the same lenth x width (they're almost all boxer fours!), so 1/4" difference on teh dipstick will be about the same volume of oil in every model of car...
did the outgoing Impreza and its 2.5 hold 5+ quarts????
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Old 05-24-2012, 11:35 PM   #78
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for those of you wondering, my brand new impreza with only 280 miles on, the oil level is currently 1/4" over the top of the "full" dot
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Old 05-24-2012, 11:51 PM   #79
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The dealer and soa both agreed that an oil consumption test was in order. I drop the car off saturday for a new seatback, rear hatch latch adjustment, and the oil consumption test. They said it consisted of draining the oil and measuring how much is in there, then filling it precisely with the amount the factory calls for, me driving the car for X miles and then drainiong it and seeing how much less oil there is than 5.3 quarts. At least that's what soa said.
The consumption test doesn't make much sense the way it was explained to you. Drain-back cannot be calculated that way, or at least not that accurately.

The way I do consumption tests:
1.Fill to approx 1/2 quart short of spec (Start&Run for 15 sec or so)
2.Verify Oil level in "safe" zone.
3.Test drive to operating temp.
4.Park on a known level spot - in the shop on a flat bay, NOT on a lift.
5.Time: 10min of drain back, dipstick out.
6.Check level, top off to exactly full dot.
7.Subaru spec is 1qt every 1200 miles, return to customer, have them return in nearest to 1200 miles.
8. Verify operating temp, park in same flat bay, wait 10min, dipstick out, verify oil level, note loss, if any. One Qt. to add/low dot, if not below within acceptable limits.

This way the oil viscosity is at the same temp, ambient temp does not affect it. The time is precise to allow the same amount of oil to flow back into the pan.

Also note: JAMMING the oil dipstick back in will give poor results, I've seen people check their oil like they're throwing a Javelin. Those O-rings seal so shoving it in quickly causes the oil to wave at the end of the dipstick tube giving inaccurate readings.


On a personal note, my wife's '12 Impreza was about 1/8" over the full dot from the factory fill doing the same as above. I account that to fluid expansion as with the old EJ motors that have a Full DOT and the Full HOT Notch.

At 1000 Miles I changed the oil and filter and precisely filled as described above hot. Cold it will read about 1/16" under the full dot. Consider however Full is Full, Over Full means if it was in a sealed container it wouldn't fit. It has to go somewhere, usually burnt off in the PCV or adding drag on the crankshaft diminishing mileage. I prefer to be as close as I can get to full but as long as it stays in the operating "Safe" zone. Its operating normally.

Another issue I've seen is the incorrect oil being used, this engine requires 0w20syn, the wrong weight will cause issues of oil not getting back to the pan fast enough. If you're that skeptical of your dealers work, I would ask to see the empty 0w20 bottles, I highly doubt they have 0w20 Synthetic in bulk tanks yet.


Here's the copy paste from the SM:

Engine Oil
A: INSPECTION
CAUTION:
If the engine oil is spilt over exhaust pipe or the under cover, wipe it off with cloth to avoid emitting
smoke or causing a fire.
1) Park the vehicle on a level surface.
2) Remove the oil level gauge and wipe away the oil.
3) Reinsert the oil level gauge all the way. Be sure that the oil level gauge is correctly inserted and properly
orientated.
4) Pull out the oil level gauge again, check the both sides of the oil level gauge, and judge by using the lower
side engine oil level. If the engine oil level is below L line, check for oil leakage from engine and add oil to
bring the level up to F line.
5) Start the engine to circulate the oil in engine room.
6) After turning off the engine, wait a few minutes for the oil to return to the oil pan before checking the level.
NOTE:
To prevent overfilling of engine oil, do not add oil above F line when the engine is cold.
As the oil level gauge is used for daily maintenance, F line and L line is set assuming that the engine
is cold.
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:04 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79letour View Post
did the outgoing Impreza and its 2.5 hold 5+ quarts????
No, about 4.2 to 4.4 depending on drain time. That was the EJ motor TOTALLY different from the FA/FB.
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:37 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by subiTWO View Post
Don't forget to idle the engine, to get oil into the filter...
ah yes. good point if i wanted to see where 4 qts comes up to.

i think out of laziness, i may just do the five and see what happens.
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:19 AM   #82
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No, about 4.2 to 4.4 depending on drain time. That was the EJ motor TOTALLY different from the FA/FB.
EXACTLY
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:30 AM   #83
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Just did the math. According to Subaru its acceptable to consume up to 6.25 quarts between oil changes, according to the manual and my calculator. So at ten bucks a quart, an owner could possibly have to purchase 11.55 quarts of oil per 7500 miles. LAME.
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:45 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79letour
Just did the math. According to Subaru its acceptable to consume up to 6.25 quarts between oil changes, according to the manual and my calculator. So at ten bucks a quart, an owner could possibly have to purchase 11.55 quarts of oil per 7500 miles. LAME.
Lawyer up my friend
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Old 05-25-2012, 10:29 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by 79letour View Post
Just did the math. According to Subaru its acceptable to consume up to 6.25 quarts between oil changes, according to the manual and my calculator. So at ten bucks a quart, an owner could possibly have to purchase 11.55 quarts of oil per 7500 miles. LAME.
I knew there was no way i would go 7500 miles between oil changes anyone that does, expect their engine to be a mess at 150k. 3750 will be my interveral. which means ill just take it in every other oil change and do it myself in between. This kinda makes me happy because i enjoy working on my vehicle.

Its also 8.79 per quart for Mobile 1. Still a little pricy but if you find a sale snach it up and you should get it around 6.00 / qt Im looking for Castrol brand since thats the stuff i used in my 236k vehicle.

Mine is at 2500 miles and showing slightly less than the top dot but it was a little cool when i check it. Also with this being the first oil in the engine im accounting for oil absorption which can add up since metal is porus.
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Old 05-25-2012, 11:24 AM   #86
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With synthetic oil 7,500 mile change intervals are fine. With amsoil signature series 25,000 mile or annual (whichever comes first) change intervals are fine.

I changed mine at 1,200 miles, but that is what I always do with an new car, now I am following the above.

Changing it every 3,750 is not going to do anything but waste your time and money, but knock yourself out if you want to do that, it's your car and your wallet.

My car isn't burning or losing oil (about 3,700 miles on it now). If your car is doing either it is not because of the design of the new engine, it is something particular to your vehicle.

Someone previously was talking about adding 4 quarts to an engine that requires 5.3 quarts. Changing your oil is not rocket science. If the car requires 5.3 quarts don't underfill the engine with only 4 or only 5 quarts.

Last edited by Zeeper; 05-25-2012 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 05-25-2012, 11:25 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79letour
Just did the math. According to Subaru its acceptable to consume up to 6.25 quarts between oil changes, according to the manual and my calculator. So at ten bucks a quart, an owner could possibly have to purchase 11.55 quarts of oil per 7500 miles. LAME.
What the what?? 6.25 quarts??
I've never owned a vehicle that guzzled oil like that.
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Old 05-25-2012, 11:27 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by hemophilic View Post
What the what?? 6.25 quarts??
I've never owned a vehicle that guzzled oil like that.
1998 Toyota Rav4.... My dad finally killed the engine by not feeding it oil. Think I had to put in a quart every 800 miles.
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Old 05-25-2012, 11:52 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
With synthetic oil 7,500 mile change intervals are fine. With amsoil signature series 25,000 mile or annual (whichever comes first) change intervals are fine.

I changed mine at 1,200 miles, but that is what I always do with an new car, not I am following the above.

Changing it every 3,750 is not going to do anything but waste your time and money, but knock yourself out if you want to do that, it's your car and your wallet.
You are aware that when you change your oil you are removing small contaminaents from the engine that the filter wont trap. Carbon, Metal and various other foreign particles that have the potential to wear bearings and other components over time. having a higher quality oil will only do so much but it wont take away the particles.

When i do my oil change at 3750 and find the oil to be as clean as it was when it was new then i wont have as many reservations about keeping the oil in longer. Seeing is believing
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Old 05-25-2012, 11:58 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by auskip07 View Post
You are aware that when you change your oil you are removing small contaminaents from the engine that the filter wont trap. Carbon, Metal and various other foreign particles that have the potential to wear bearings and other components over time. having a higher quality oil will only do so much but it wont take away the particles.

When i do my oil change at 3750 and find the oil to be as clean as it was when it was new then i wont have as many reservations about keeping the oil in longer. Seeing is believing
I have seen synthetic used in long intervals on motorcycles, and it does fine. And I have a feeling that a wet clutch motorcycle is much harder on it's oil than the 2.0i engine. The oil breaking down is of more concern than the tiny particles that wear off the engine, imho.
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:10 PM   #91
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I am a firm believer that using Amsoil and changing according to their recommendations will mean my engine won't die because of oil related issues, at least not before 500,000 miles if I am still driving it then.

Let's see, if I drive about 12,000 miles a year, that's 41 years. I'll be the coolest 86 year old driving a two tone hatch that anyone has ever seen! Of course that will only be when I am not on my ZRX1100, that will also be fine with "gasp" annual oil changes using Shell Rotella T 5w-40 (what a lot of STI and WRX drivers are also using).

Anyone following the 7,500 mile change interval with any brand 0w-20 synthetic oil is following manufacturer guidelines and I'm positive we won't see a bunch of 2012 Subaru's blowing their engines at 150,000 miles (or suffering even significant engine wear).

In any case do what you want, I've already been told on NASOIC that using Amsoil in a new engine condemns me to hell. Whatever.

Last edited by Zeeper; 05-25-2012 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:11 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by SZRimaging View Post
I have seen synthetic used in long intervals on motorcycles, and it does fine. And I have a feeling that a wet clutch motorcycle is much harder on it's oil than the 2.0i engine. The oil breaking down is of more concern than the tiny particles that wear off the engine, imho.
I agree, i do 10k or yearly changes on my motorcycle, that is running rotella 6, so far no.issues
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Old 05-25-2012, 01:23 PM   #93
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so, i've come from the perhaps overly cautious, change every 3000mi or 3 months club. i have found that when "looking at the oil" just for color, that in past cars (using dino oil, not synthetic) that significant carbon has accumulated after even 2500mi. i'm assuming the same would be true too with synthetic.

so the question is: except for sending the oil out for analysis, how does one determine whether their oil is "dirty" or broken down? i haven't changed my oil yet (intend to do so in a few weeks which will be around 2k or more), but i am assuming that color isn't a great indicator of whether the oil is still "good"?

unless i hear otherwise compelling evidence, i'll probably ultimately do a every 6 months routine that will likely mean 5-6k between changes. it maybe a little wasteful, but the long haul, it won't cost me too much over the life of the car, especially since i do it myself.
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Old 05-25-2012, 02:44 PM   #94
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so, i've come from the perhaps overly cautious, change every 3000mi or 3 months club. i have found that when "looking at the oil" just for color, that in past cars (using dino oil, not synthetic) that significant carbon has accumulated after even 2500mi. i'm assuming the same would be true too with synthetic.

so the question is: except for sending the oil out for analysis, how does one determine whether their oil is "dirty" or broken down? i haven't changed my oil yet (intend to do so in a few weeks which will be around 2k or more), but i am assuming that color isn't a great indicator of whether the oil is still "good"?

unless i hear otherwise compelling evidence, i'll probably ultimately do a every 6 months routine that will likely mean 5-6k between changes. it maybe a little wasteful, but the long haul, it won't cost me too much over the life of the car, especially since i do it myself.
color is definetly not a good indicator, the only true way to know is an oil analysis
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Old 05-25-2012, 03:40 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by 79letour View Post
Just did the math. According to Subaru its acceptable to consume up to 6.25 quarts between oil changes, according to the manual and my calculator. So at ten bucks a quart, an owner could possibly have to purchase 11.55 quarts of oil per 7500 miles. LAME.
Are you ****tin' me?!!!

Even when I had a '62 VW bus with a cracked case I didn't lose that much oil. Something is SERIOUSLY wrong here.
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Old 05-25-2012, 03:55 PM   #96
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i would be interested in seeing if a 10w-30 would see the same type of oil consumption. Before in my 236k mile Nissan i switched from 10-30 to 20w-50 and oil leaks slowed down to the point where i was at 1 qt every 3500-4000 miles. We are using really thin oil

If your getting really low on oil in the allowed oil change interveral it might be worth doing a compression test. Maybe then you might have a case against SOA
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Old 05-25-2012, 04:00 PM   #97
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And absent a complete (and expensive) oil analysis, I like to feel the oil by getting some on my finger and rubbing my thumb and finger together. If I feel anything other than absolutely smooth slippery oil, I change it. Also I hold a drop up to light and look for the glitter of very tiny metallic particles.

Other than that, I'm sticking to the schedule and products the manufacturer specifies. I am in no mood to second-guess the engineers and take on the burden of possibly voiding the warranty. I am well aware that there are probably better schedules and products but I'm not willing to play that game this time around.

I've owned all manners of showroom stock cars, blueprinted engines, hot rods, bored, stroked, modified fuel/air delivery systems, you name it. I enjoy that stuff. But this specific 2012 Impreza 2.0i is my econo-box grocery getter and I expect nothing more and nothing less than reliable long life if I treat it as the manufacturer dictates. If I had different expectations for this car, honestly, I would have bought a different car.
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Old 05-25-2012, 04:27 PM   #98
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... I am in no mood to second-guess the engineers ...
Basic problem is that engineers are often overruled by marketeers and PHBs that are more interested in the bottom line on the balance sheet. It is in their interest to achieve the right balance of post-warranty product failure so as to ensure continued revenue stream from replacement parts and repair labor for their stealerships.
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Old 05-25-2012, 04:46 PM   #99
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Basic problem is that engineers are often overruled by marketeers and PHBs that are more interested in the bottom line on the balance sheet.
I concede that, at least partially, but I would not want to base my case on that if I needed to go to court to settle a warranty issue. That would be an extremely difficult and expensive sell.


Quote:
It is in their interest to achieve the right balance of post-warranty product failure so as to ensure continued revenue stream from replacement parts and repair labor for their stealerships.
Um... I don't believe this. For one thing, neither Subaru Japan nor Subaru Of America care a whole lot about dealership profitability; they just want to shove cars at them.
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Old 05-25-2012, 05:35 PM   #100
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Auskip,
Contaminents yes but particles no. Synthetic oil does not suspend particles like dyno oil which is why it is critical to use quality oil filters. Also if the manufacturer states 7500 mile oil changes that means it's ok to go 7500 miles and anything earlier is just a waste of money.

I run synthetic in both my bikes and my Titan and change it at 5000 on the bikes and 7500 in the truck. My oil always comes out looking better than dyno oil after 3000 miles because it doesn't suspend the particles. In other words the particles and contaminents are what make your used oil look used. Note that the bikes use Amsoil and could go to 10000 but I change early because they both have wet clutches and it allows me to see what the clutches are doing without having to open the engines. I'm still a semi tree hugger because I reuse the oil in other power equipment.
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