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Old 12-21-2012, 02:08 PM   #2251
79letour
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STeye, I'm not feeding into your contant baiting for arguments. I've been more than reasonable and downright pleasant to the staff when I go to dealers. I live in the civilized world, and have travelled to many places. I know you can paint me in a negative way based on forum discussion, but why do that? People say all sorts of things and get REALLY nasty on the internet. I'll bet if Zeeper ran into me somewhere at a bar or what have you, we'd probably get along great. Internet forums use language that real world conversation probably wouldn't sometimes.
Let's say for the sake of argument that I'm an a-hole. Ok- well I'm an a-hole who's getting effed by Subaru. And the internet is a great place to voice my discomfort with their LACK OF LUBE!!!
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:25 PM   #2252
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Well, it appears as though my 0W30 experiment is a total fail. Just under 1200 miles on this fill and the oil light came on. This means I'm probably about 3/4 qaurt low. Going to verify once I get home.

I'm very inclined to agree with 79 now that oil weight and brand make no difference in consumption rate.

Man this sucks! I really wish I had the means to get out of this $hit box right now. I would take just about anything at this point, even the new Neon. Oops... I mean Dart. ;-)
Yeah, 0W30 of M1 seemed to consume faster in my experiment. I was 1/2 qt low after only 900 miles
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:27 PM   #2253
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STeye, I'm not feeding into your contant baiting for arguments. I've been more than reasonable and downright pleasant to the staff when I go to dealers. I live in the civilized world, and have travelled to many places. I know you can paint me in a negative way based on forum discussion, but why do that? People say all sorts of things and get REALLY nasty on the internet. I'll bet if Zeeper ran into me somewhere at a bar or what have you, we'd probably get along great. Internet forums use language that real world conversation probably wouldn't sometimes.
Let's say for the sake of argument that I'm an a-hole. Ok- well I'm an a-hole who's getting effed by Subaru. And the internet is a great place to voice my discomfort with their LACK OF LUBE!!!
Look man, I'm not trying to argue with you. My point (perhaps I should have explained) is that I personally know many Subaru dealerships that are very good. They have knowledgeable competent mechanics that perform good work. While there are many ones that don't fit the bill, there are many that are very good.

I never said you were an a-hole, nor do I think you are. Anyways, we don't need to discuss this further.
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:29 PM   #2254
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Yeah, 0W30 of M1 seemed to consume faster in my experiment. I was 1/2 qt low after only 900 miles
Really!? Wasn't aware that you had already tried a 0W30.

Guess its back to Amsoil 0W20 seeing as I already bought a preferred membership and get it at a discounted price.
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:33 PM   #2255
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I am curious to know if driving aggressiveness is a factor in consumption? Are there any oil consumers that are habitually hypermiling their car?
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:34 PM   #2256
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I am curious to know if driving aggressiveness is a factor in consumption? Are there any oil consumers that are habitually hypermiling their car?
I would think so, generally higher rpm= higher oil usage due to multiple factors higher rpm brings
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:37 PM   #2257
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We just picked up a 2012 Versa S hatch special edition with nav brand new for $14.5. bought it to replace our 1999 Toyota Solara that gave us 0 problems at 142k miles. I was looking at them last nite and thinking of dumping the Subie for another one.
Thanks for the suggestion, but I think the Versa would be a little small for my liking. I wouldn't want anything smaller than the impreza, although, I would love something with more power. I don't think I'll get anything with less than 200hp next time around.

Been thinking a lot about Hondas lately. I like the look of the refreshed 2013 SI and the new Accord Sport looks and sounds like a very nice vehicle. Oh well, I have plenty of time to think about it as I'm stuck with the Impreza for the foreseeable future.

Last edited by jr0bb5; 12-21-2012 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 12-21-2012, 03:12 PM   #2258
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BrettAZ- if you're reading the dipstick regularly, and it reads right dead in the middle between the dots, you're either a half a quart low, or 3/4qt low, depending on what dipstick/tube combination you have.
There are owners who get dipstick readings right at the full mark when they change oil and put on a new filter and use 5.3 quarts of 0w20. Other owners get a dipstick reading of a quarter-inch above the "full" dot when they do the same. Either way, your dipstick should be at, or a quarter inch above, the full mark.
With these cars, you're supposed to carry a bottle of oil to top off your car. You're supposed to check the dipstick and coolant every other fillup. That's according to subaru.
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:07 PM   #2259
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Out of all the cars I have owned, they always tell you to carry extra oil and to check it at fill up. That verbiage covers the manufacturer to a certain degree. I think checking it every fill up is excessive, I tend to check mind every couple thousand miles which I wouldn't suggest for those consuming larger amounts of oil. If you really want to document your case, you can keep a log and pictures of every time you check it.
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:33 PM   #2260
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Fair enough. But my interpretation of "most likely" is "greater than a 50% chance". I don't think that there's >50% chance that any Impreza rolling off the assembly line will consume enough oil that some will need to be added between oil changes.

As for your oil light, I'd say that if the light is coming on when your oil level is between the two marks, then I'd suspect that your oil level sensor is bad. If your level is between the two marks (when the car is sitting on level ground), then your oil isn't low enough to trigger an oil level warning. I wouldn't expect a warning until you are down 1 quart, and at that point, I'd expect the oil level to be on the bottom "add a quart" dot.
Fair enough. And I totally agree with you buddy. Its just frustrating when the oil lights start coming on.

I am going to wait til I hit 15,000 and take it in for an oil change. At that time I will have them explore the oil light issue, even though they are not on all the time. At that time I will also change over to a 5k mile OCI, which I think is better for this car.

I still love my car, but don't like when the dashboard starts lighting up on a somewhat new car.
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:51 PM   #2261
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So I got home after a fairly long drive, parked my car on the most level surface I could find, then let the car sit for about 15 minutes. I checked my oil level and found that is was a little over a 1/2 quart low (approx 20 oz) in 1180 miles. Poured in what was left in my quart bottle of M1 0W30, which was about 22 or 23 oz. Figured a couple extra ounces isn't going to hurt anything.

On a side note, I didn't find that my engine sounded any smoother or quieter with the heavier oil. Also, my MPG's seem to have dropped a little... I'd say by almost 2 MPGs.

Guess it's back to the 0W20 from now on.
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Old 12-21-2012, 07:10 PM   #2262
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Any residue on the cam sensor covers or fuel injectors, Jrobb?
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Old 12-21-2012, 07:25 PM   #2263
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Any residue on the cam sensor covers or fuel injectors, Jrobb?
None that I could tell. I took a quick look when I was adding oil but didn't see anything.
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Old 12-21-2012, 08:21 PM   #2264
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I'm thinking, as messy as some dealers have been, that some 0w20 got drizzled on that intake cam position cover. Its right there so I could totally see that happening. 0w20 is some seriously viscous oil, and anywhere it gets it can spread easily. I'm going to clean that area with some solvent tomorrow.

Anyone seeing any kind of soot or residue on their injector bodies?
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:48 PM   #2265
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Sorry to jump in. I have a 2012 Impreza (May 2012). Had the oil changed around 2.5-3k and hadn't really noticed much of an oil drop since July.

Yesterday, I checked my oil level (about halfway between the low and high dots). I did this after the car sat over night. About 375 miles into a 400 mile trip (I am at 7,200miles now) my low oil light came on for about 15-20seconds and turned off. When I got to my destination I let the car cool down and saw the oil level had dropped to about 20% above the low dot, down from 50% the night before.

I must note that I was driving through snowy roads and standing water/pouring rain for about half the trip in New England, which resulted in my RPM's being higher for most of the trip due to the extra effort the car had to make to overpower the resistance of the precipitation on the road. Prior to my trip I noticed that the car had smelled "warm" even on short trips, though I haven't noticed any other strange noises or quirks.

Anyone have any input where to go from here?
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Old 12-22-2012, 07:30 AM   #2266
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It sounds like you have almost 5k on this fill of oil. I'd recommend changing your oil and filter, and then keep an eye on things.
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Old 12-22-2012, 08:07 AM   #2267
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^100% Agree with that advice!
And if you can, vote in the break-in/consumption poll.
If you're seeing oil consumption, as in the level steadily getting lower with time/miles then start making complaints to SOA. The more people call them and let them know about their cars burning oil, the harder it should be for them to keep saying "I'm sorry but no ome else has complained about this".
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Old 12-23-2012, 02:11 AM   #2268
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"Stealerships" in general suck..... They want to steal your money...that's kind of an internet known thing as far as I know. If you can't do the little things yourself, you get robbed. But it's not just official places.....it's pretty much any big corporation garage...Tire Kingdom....Tires plus...whatever.... There are more bad ones then good. If you find a true and honest garage for your car then you are more lucky than you could ever know.

I also don't consider it rare since a few different places now...from 79 and some new people are claiming the dealership act strange to this issue as if it's some secret...or they honestly don't know...but I know they do.

If you were to go to a private garage that has no stake in that car...just for tires or something, they more than likely will be honest, unlike the SOA dealership. A place where I get tires just told me about a Subbie 2012 that was "consuming" oil and it was put up for auction. I'm betting they let the car get repo'd because they didn't feel like paying for oil every 1500 miles. If anyone says that it is acceptable....it's plain ridiculous. A quart of oil every 1200-1500 miles....really. There is alot of stuff in manuals that is always suspect.....like stuff that you think is under warranty, but really isn't.....like something with electronics involved. It happened with ou PT Cruiser that was still under warranty. The CEL came on and it was some electronic thing in the gas tank, $300 replacement, somehow not covered by warranty...bumper to bumper....???We just ignored it because it was on lease and guess what...........the light went off and it appeared nothing was wrong. They also wanted to clean the injectors at 15k, LLOLOLOL...I told my mom to decline it. So much money they wanted for a car that was being leased....so even though we live in walking distance of this dealership.....we never went back....like 1 mile...right down the street......because we know they are liars and cheats.

Anyways...I've seen a few new Subbies on the road and I always wanna stop and ask them if they have oil issues...lol...no joke. The scary part is that maybe you live in a state and have no issues.....but so far I believe we have Florida and Arizona....I'm not really keeping track, but I know that around me, there must be bad eggs floating around as 79 is north of me, I think....and a guy bought one at an auction for $8k and sold it for 2x that about 5 miles from me. The price he paid for it at the auction is what really scared me about that car. I may even be wrong, he may have paid 6 or 7.... but all I know is he told me he doubled his money without barely working for it. Also up for sale were 2 STi's. I think 2008-2009 for 5 and 6k. High miles...but that's all he knew about them. He didn't feel he could sell them...oh well. I know they keep their value, but I'm not the one putting up the cash.

A side note...looks like Hanta20 is the new oil burner on the list. I'm going to predict his issue will get worse until he's at the level of 79 eventually. It seems to start out slow. It's like you either have that problem, or you don't.
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Old 12-23-2012, 02:21 AM   #2269
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Wow. Holy tangents batman!
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Old 12-23-2012, 07:06 AM   #2270
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"Stealerships" in general suck..... They want to steal your money...that's kind of an internet known thing as far as I know....I'm betting they let the car get repo'd because they didn't feel like paying for oil every 1500 miles. If anyone says that it is acceptable....it's plain ridiculous. A quart of oil every 1200-1500 miles....really.
My car doesn't burn any oil, and for that I'm thankful. I wouldn't wish it upon anybody.

But let's take a look at your 1 quart every 1500 miles scenario. If I had a car that needed 1 quart every 1.5k, I'd probably put it on a 4500 mile oil change interval. So 1500 miles after the oil change, I'd add 1 qt, then again at 3000 miles after the oil change, and then I'd do another complete oil change at 4500 miles.

So every 4500 miles I'm buying 2 quarts of oil that the guy whose car doesn't consume anything isn't buying. I currently buy Amsoil OE 0W-20 for $6.50/quart, so let's say that I'm spending an extra $13 every 4500 miles.

[NOTE: This cost might be high, because if I had an oil-consuming car, I might just buy 5-qt jugs of Mobil1 at Walmart for less. But for the purposes of this discussion, let's stick with the extra $13 every 4500 miles.]

OK, so now let's calculate how much extra money I'd be spending every 100,000 miles (which for me is approximately 7 years of ownership):

100,000 / 4500 = 22.2 oil change intervals
22.2 * $13 = $289
$289 / 7 years = $41/year

So someone who needs to add 1 qt every 1500 miles, and who drives approximately 15k miles/year, would spend an extra $41/year on oil (or less, if he buys Mobil1 at Walmart).

I'm guessing that any of us who can afford to buy a brand new Subaru can swallow an extra $41/year. So the cost, to me, isn't prohibitive. There's some inconvenience, as you would need to check your oil level more often. And you would probably want to keep a quart of oil in your trunk at all times.

You might ask, "But what if the rate of consumption gets worse over time?" Well, then that's probably a good thing, because that would eventually push your consumption beyond the point where SOA agrees to replace your engine.

But you see, from an expense perspective, 1 qt every 1500 miles really isn't a big deal, once you break it down. It's the cost of one extra tank of gas every year. Big deal. As I said at the beginning of this post, I'm glad my car doesn't consume oil. But if it did, I would just accept it as long as the car was otherwise reliable.
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Old 12-23-2012, 08:05 AM   #2271
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That is good analysis of the cost of the oil consumption in dollars. I get that there is an "emotional" cost, I would be angry if my car burned oil also.

There is another cost in your scenario. The driver who decides they want to trade for something else and dump the car prematurely. I won't do the math, but the initial depreciation, plus the cost of the money already spent on vehicle taxes/registration fees, and inspection is probably many, many years worth of oil addition.

These cars hold their resale value and are a hot commodity. But I know my state won't refund the registration/inspection fees. They will, strangely enough, defer the tax on the difference between the cost of your trade and the new car (NY State) -- but I don't think many states have this tax break (I guess our auto retailer lobby is strong, because this is a big incentive to trade-in your current car with the dealer rather than do a private sale).

How long do you think it would take at $41/year to cover that cost?
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Old 12-23-2012, 08:09 AM   #2272
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Longer than most of us keep our cars.
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Old 12-23-2012, 08:25 AM   #2273
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There is another cost in your scenario. The driver who decides they want to trade for something else and dump the car prematurely. I won't do the math, but the initial depreciation, plus the cost of the money already spent on vehicle taxes/registration fees, and inspection is probably many, many years worth of oil addition.
This calculation wasn't as simple when I decided to dump my 2010 VW Golf TDI with only 30k miles on it.

That car had several problems during the 30k miles I owned it, all of which were covered by warranty. However, as it was approaching the end of its warranty, it hadn't yet had some of the big-ticket problems that other TDI owners are experiencing:
  • High Pressure Fuel Pump failure: $8000 repair
  • Diesel Particulate Filter replacement: $3000 repair (I think; don't quote me on this)
  • Exhaust flap: $500
  • EGR sensors: $ I don't know

My point is that with the TDI, we aren't talking about $41/year in oil. We're talking about thousands of dollars spent on problems that can leave you stranded, and that will leave you without your car for weeks.

This is how I was able to justify dumping my TDI early. I sold it myself (rather than trading it in), so I didn't get crushed with depreciation costs.

But I wouldn't dump an otherwise good Impreza early because of $41/year in oil. The risk and cost just doesn't compute.
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Old 12-23-2012, 09:10 AM   #2274
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Originally Posted by sgoldste01 View Post
This calculation wasn't as simple when I decided to dump my 2010 VW Golf TDI with only 30k miles on it.

That car had several problems during the 30k miles I owned it, all of which were covered by warranty. However, as it was approaching the end of its warranty, it hadn't yet had some of the big-ticket problems that other TDI owners are experiencing:
  • High Pressure Fuel Pump failure: $8000 repair
  • Diesel Particulate Filter replacement: $3000 repair (I think; don't quote me on this)
  • Exhaust flap: $500
  • EGR sensors: $ I don't know
My point is that with the TDI, we aren't talking about $41/year in oil. We're talking about thousands of dollars spent on problems that can leave you stranded, and that will leave you without your car for weeks.

This is how I was able to justify dumping my TDI early. I sold it myself (rather than trading it in), so I didn't get crushed with depreciation costs.

But I wouldn't dump an otherwise good Impreza early because of $41/year in oil. The risk and cost just doesn't compute.
Just out of curiosity, (since a co-worker has a 2008 VW), did you also need to purchase windshield wiper blades and headlight bulbs from a dealer? Seems that his car uses some special blades that cost him 60 some bucks a pair, and a freekin headlight bulb is 80 some bucks. That is only the material cost. What a crock!!!

John
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Old 12-23-2012, 09:21 AM   #2275
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I think the erosion of consumer confidence is at the core of the issue, not the actual cost of the oil.
I don't think anyone who's burning faster and faster is going to have much faith in that car making it as long as one that's normal.
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