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Old 12-05-2013, 09:32 AM   #1
boxerinside
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Default 2015 wrx engine in the BRZ?

so if I'm correct the new WRX engine is a turbo version of the BRZ engine the FA20. My only concern would be whether the turbo sitting down there would fit in the BRZ without issues.

I know this is premature but my biggest question would be:
how hard would it be to convert the FA20 into the FA20 DIT?

you would technically need:
-the twin scroll turbo setup
-Subarus DI system
-the lower compression pistons
-cams i would assume
-top mounted IC setup

I guess you could also just do a knock off:
-use AVO turbo kit
-leave the existing DI system
-get factory WRX pistons and cams.

what I'm looking for is the torque delivery that the new WRX will have which is basically 250lb/tq at 2k rpm which is basically thanks to the twin scroll.
you will never get low range torque with the FA20 as is by just adding a turbo.

so any thoughts on this:
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:39 AM   #2
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Last edited by SoapBox; 12-05-2013 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:42 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by boxerinside View Post
I know this is premature but my biggest question would be:
how hard would it be to convert the FA20 into the FA20 DIT?
Simple answer? Very.
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:57 AM   #4
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Biggest issue seems to be that the Toyota DI is apparently turning out to be hard to get to work well with F/I setups in general.

There's talk of trying to swap heads on the BRZ engine to bring Subaru's DI system onto the motor, which will aid in F/I applications.

If the FA DIT physically fits in the engine bay, might be easier to make an adapter plate for the trans, and start shopping for wrecked FXTs?
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:58 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by boxerinside View Post
-Subarus DI system
See above, that means heads, probably the full wiring harness, etc.
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:03 AM   #6
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hey soapbox save your posts you are in my ignore list so I have no idea what you are saying. GTFO.
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:09 AM   #7
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Well, that escalated quickly.
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:11 AM   #8
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Your question is very premature. Might as well be asking what heaven or hell is like.

I think by the time 2015 WRX front clips/motors are available, there will be a drop in solution for the BRZ.

Who knows... it's unlikely, but maybe Subaru will bring out a turbo STi version of the BRZ.
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:21 AM   #9
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Biggest issue seems to be that the Toyota DI is apparently turning out to be hard to get to work well with F/I setups in general.
Haha - where did you get this idea from? There are a several guys, including myself that are having no issues tuning FI setups on these cars. You just have to understand how the system works. It uses both port and direct injectors. Together, they are good for a fair amount of fuel without changing any parts. From there, you bump the port injectors and add a bigger in-tank pump as needed. Its only a matter of time before someone offers larger direct injectors for this platform which will be even better.
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:27 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by WRXt4cy View Post

Haha - where did you get this idea from? There are a several guys, including myself that are having no issues tuning FI setups on these cars. You just have to understand how the system works. It uses both port and direct injectors. Together, they are good for a fair amount of fuel without changing any parts. From there, you bump the port injectors and add a bigger in-tank pump as needed. Its only a matter of time before someone offers larger direct injectors for this platform which will be even better.
Read it in multiple articles on the fa, and why they moved to their own system.

They could of course have been wrong. They didnt say you couldnt tune it, they implied something about it (not specified), was a hindrance to fi. Good to see it isnt an issue.

So, pistons and the right turbo could get you similar results?
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:29 AM   #11
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hey soapbox save your posts you are in my ignore list so I have no idea what you are saying. GTFO.
Oh hush you, adults are talking.
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:33 AM   #12
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what I'm looking for is the torque delivery that the new WRX will have which is basically 250lb/tq at 2k rpm which is basically thanks to the twin scroll.

Basically.
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:37 AM   #13
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I think by the time 2015 WRX front clips/motors are available, there will be a drop in solution for the BRZ.
Doubtful. The low hood line of the BRZ would make a TMIC install difficult. Electrically, (if the WRX uses similar electrical systems as the Forester turbo), it would be a nightmare. Different voltages, completely different engine management systems, and transmission and EPS control units integrated into the LAN/CAN system that would end up looking for signals that no longer exist, and receiving signals they did not understand.

Possible? Perhaps, with enough time and money. A "drop in" solution? Uh-uh.
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:45 AM   #14
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I love to speculate about a car that's full details aren't released yet, and we have little clue otherwise about.

At least lets talk about a cure for cancer, that has a better chance of being worth a damn.
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:47 AM   #15
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Read it in multiple articles on the fa, and why they moved to their own system.

They could of course have been wrong. They didnt say you couldnt tune it, they implied something about it (not specified), was a hindrance to fi. Good to see it isnt an issue.

So, pistons and the right turbo could get you similar results?
Well direct injection really helps when adding boost to a high compression engine so it would nice if there were larger direct injector options available. I harassed deatschwerks at SEMA because they are working on (offering?) them for other platforms already. Hopefully they will get something going for the BRZ guys.

You can make really good power even with the high compression pistons using low boost and proper tuning. Lower compression forged pistons will surely be better for longevity or the guys that don't have the option to run E85. You need stronger rods once you want to make fairly high torque on these motors, so you already need to build the motor at that point. Honestly though, these cars are so balanced and so much fun to drive, just a small responsive turbo making ~300ish hp and mid 200's torque is a riot on the street, track, etc. They start to behave like a v8 Miata when you starting cranking up the power.
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:50 AM   #16
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I love to speculate about a car that's full details aren't released yet, and we have little clue otherwise about.

At least lets talk about a cure for cancer, that has a better chance of being worth a damn.
The engine is already in the fxt. The car in question is the brz, not the wrx.

Not that i dont agree this is a dumb thread.
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:52 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by WRXt4cy View Post

Well direct injection really helps when adding boost to a high compression engine so it would nice if there were larger direct injector options available. I harassed deatschwerks at SEMA because they are offering them for other platforms already. Hopefully they will get something going for the BRZ guys.

You can make really good power even on the high compression pistons using low boost and proper tuning. Lower compression forged pistons will surely be better for longevity or the guys that don't have the option to run E85. You need stronger rods once you want to make decent torque on these motors, so you already need to build the motor at that point. Honestly though, these cars are so balanced and so much fun to drive, just a small responsive turbo making ~300ish hp and mid 200's torque is a riot on the street, track, etc. They start to behave like a v8 Miata when you starting cranking up the power.
I guess the op's focus is more on the low end power. Is an elh and a fast-spool twinscroll impossible with the brz subframe?
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:08 PM   #18
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I guess the op's focus is more on the low end power. Is an elh and a fast-spool twinscroll impossible with the brz subframe?
You know, I'm not really sure. All the kits out there so far put the turbo near the top/front of the motor but that's mainly to fit larger turbos. Those stock location low mount turbos are TINY and there's just no room down there for more much more than a bit of a bigger compressor side from what I've seen.

I'd have to check with the local shop I tune for and see what they think about a low-mount option. It might be really nice for the AutoX guys that want the super quick response.

We are way off topic from the OP's original question and I realize that so to be fair to the OP, I will say that from my experience, I highly doubt it will ever be practical to swap things from the Subaru's own DIT setup to the BRZ. The BRZ is fine the way it is and there is already good support for it and more to come I'm sure. I would actually anticipate that at some point, we will see the BRZ, and maybe even the FR-S start coming with Subaru's DI system (which they probably bought from Toyota and re-developed a bit considering they dropped the port injection). They might even offer the FA20T for the BRZ but I don't know if Toyota would follow suit or let the platform split away at that point.
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:23 PM   #19
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Doubtful. The low hood line of the BRZ would make a TMIC install difficult. Electrically, (if the WRX uses similar electrical systems as the Forester turbo), it would be a nightmare. Different voltages, completely different engine management systems, and transmission and EPS control units integrated into the LAN/CAN system that would end up looking for signals that no longer exist, and receiving signals they did not understand.

Possible? Perhaps, with enough time and money. A "drop in" solution? Uh-uh.
Well, perhaps not a "drop in" solution, but something more doable than trying to make an FA20 into an FA20 DIT.

Maybe a shop or company will fabricate necessary swap parts if you have a front clip including, but not limited to, a front mount intercooler, wiring, etc.
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:26 PM   #20
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You know, I'm not really sure. All the kits out there so far put the turbo near the top/front of the motor but that's mainly to fit larger turbos. Those stock location low mount turbos are TINY and there's just no room down there for more much more than a bit of a bigger compressor side from what I've seen.
They're small, but even in OEM trim, big enough to make ~300 crank HP (JDM Leggy IIRC).

I think in such a well-balanced car, people would give up top-end for more linearity and throttle response.

I'm sure someone has had to see if its even possible to fit the FXT exhaust manifold down there...

But alas, this is certainly a thread for the BRZ specific forum.
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:28 PM   #21
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Maybe this is simply a better option at this point and time.
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:40 PM   #22
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Well if we are going to completely de-rail this thread then...


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Old 12-05-2013, 12:40 PM   #23
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They should sell a kit.
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Old 12-05-2013, 02:41 PM   #24
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Well if we are going to completely de-rail this thread then...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_juJ7z9zNyI

Dude, that is awesome. I wonder if anyone is going to do a 3S. The Beams doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but a 3S-GTE like in the older GT-500 Supras would be sweet.
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Old 04-24-2014, 01:01 PM   #25
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so if I'm correct the new WRX engine is a turbo version of the BRZ engine the FA20.

you are NOT correct.
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