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Old 10-07-2004, 04:09 AM   #1
Jesperss
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Default A tutorial on how to install sound deadening material in the front doors?

I've looked and looked and haven't been able to find a really good "how to" guide on installing RAAMmat (or a similar material) in the front doors.

Does anyone have a decent link or could post some pictures?

Thanks!!
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Old 10-07-2004, 10:15 AM   #2
offset
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Get ready to read (there are more out there, but this should be enough of a start)...

Door Panel removal stuff...
http://members.cox.net/~gilspics/ste...l_removal.html
http://users.sisna.com/ignatius/subaru/mods/

More on the actual job for Subies...
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=570372
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=433985

The best summary of how to do it by Rick himself...
http://www.elitecaraudio.com/forums/...threadid=79543
http://www.elitecaraudio.com/forums/...threadid=95640

If there are any problems with the last couple links, or you don't want to register at ECA (why wouldn't you though), I could copy the pertinent parts with Rick's permission into this thread. Good Luck and I hope that helps.

offset
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Old 10-07-2004, 12:16 PM   #3
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That is perfect!

Thank you!
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Old 10-07-2004, 05:48 PM   #4
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Just make sure to respond back and let us know how it goes.

offset
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Old 10-17-2004, 11:44 PM   #5
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Wow I was searching for information on this and this will help a lot.

thanks.
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Old 12-19-2004, 02:40 AM   #6
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good thread helps me alot
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Old 12-19-2004, 04:08 PM   #7
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Somewhere on here is my complete install guide so of course it can be reposted anytime. I will do it for this time though


Here is what I recommend, this is from years of experience and alot of customer feedback, it works very well.

-Front doors, doors with speakers, remove door panel and plastic moisture barier, toss it in the trash.
-One layer of mat on most of the outer door skin, overlap the seems, add two more smaller layers, about 12" sq, behind the speakers. Then the same size piece of close cell foam on top of those layers(ensulite foam is best.
-Check for loose wires, cables, etc, inside the door, secure with foam tape, tie wraps, etc. build up the speaker mounting location by making a solid baffel that you can screw to the door then the speakers to it, MDF works great and easy to work with.
-Seal up the door access holes with a piece of tin, I use perforated aluminum, this gives the next layer of mat something to stick to and tightens up the midbass response.
-Install one layer of mat over the inner door metal, seal all air passages possible, cut the mat back around 1" from edge of door panel.
-Add a layer of 1/8" close cell foam, ensulite again is best but hard to find, to the top of the mat, cut around all mounting points, same for the mat, to make sure the door panel will fit back on ok, cut back around 1/2" from edge of panel.
-Tap on the back of the door panel, being plastic it will have resonate areas. Add patches of mat to those areas until it sounds deadened, usually about 1/4 to 1/3 of the surface is enough, install the panel and test the the door, slam it a few times and listen for rattles, etc.

Rear doors, as the front, if they have speakers in them.
Doors without speakers, just mat the inner door metal, covering the access holes, like above no need to mat the outer door skin.
Rear side panels, outer metal skin, foam, varies from vehicle to vehicle, try to seal up the best you can like the doors.
Rear hatch, same as above.

Floor, One layer everywhere, tap on the floor and add a second and sometims a third layer to the resonate areas only, any more is a waste of mat and effort, once and area is deadened, there is nothing more to gain with adding more mat.
-Some tend to over use the mat in some areas and not enough in others.
-Add a layer of 1/4" close cell foam or two layers of 1/8" then the factory carpet, done!

Notes:

Doors, I usually add a 1" sq steel thin wall tube behind the speaker baffle, mounted diagonally, I use self taping screws to drill through the factory inner door metal and into the tubing. This really stiffens up the speaker mounting area and improves midbass response.

If you want to go all out on the floor, you can add do a layering effect over the really resonate areas of the floor. One layer of mat, a layer of foam, another layer of mat then another layer of foam, only use 1/8" foam so the floor does not get to high for the carpets to fit back in. This method will absorb even more accoustical energy but mainly used for all out comp car installs.

Roof, not usually needed, least results, alot of effort, once the rest is done, test and decide what to do. On a black or very dark vehicle, a tremendous amount of heat build up can occur on the roof, one layer is the maximum I would use the cover it then add a solid layer of close cell foam.

If you have an exceptionally loud exhaust and or tires, they are the worst offenders as they permeate the air around the vehicle and penetrate from many areas. Sometimes they have to be changed no matter how well matted, just want you to be aware of this issue.

Rick
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Old 12-19-2004, 06:09 PM   #8
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when you say "seal up the door access holes" what holes do you mean? i am guessing the large holes that allow you to gain access to the window? i may be overthinking that statement, i just want to make sure i understand.

also what is perforated aluminum and where would one find it?

Last edited by Tobey; 12-19-2004 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 12-19-2004, 07:04 PM   #9
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Yes, the big holes, most just mat around them, does little good.

Some mat over them, much better but not as good as it can be.

I cover them with metal to give something for the mat to attach to, makes for a much more solid airspace for tighter midbass response and less road noise intrusion.

Perforated aluminum is just thin sheets with alot of hole punched into it. Not mandatory, just easier to work with, galvanized tin or solid aluminum are ok as alternatives.

Rick
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Old 02-25-2006, 11:37 PM   #10
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bump.
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Old 02-27-2006, 11:15 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagwag02
bump.
Just bumping to keep good info at the top? I had another thread linked at the top of my manifesto concerning this topic as well. Maybe I should include this post also. So if you need a little more check the sticky.

offset
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Old 02-27-2006, 07:21 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offset
Just bumping to keep good info at the top? I had another thread linked at the top of my manifesto concerning this topic as well. Maybe I should include this post also. So if you need a little more check the sticky.

offset
Yes, just to keep it fresh while I get my supplies. Thanks for the headsup.
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Old 03-11-2006, 09:59 PM   #13
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Would it be safe to assume that the Raammat and Ensolite should follow about the same perimeter as the adhesive for the plastic moisture barrier so as to cover the largest area of the door while still being able to put the door panel back on properly? And I am going to put some duct tape over the top of any exposed wiring in order to keep the adhesives off of them.

And I might add that this is an excellent opportunity to mount the chrome finish door handles. These are just too easy and look really nice.
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Old 03-12-2006, 02:14 AM   #14
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oh boy. I hate the sound of my "premium" sound system in my impreza. I thought I'd add some new speakers to the doors as a start (I'd like to hear something called mid-bass). I should do some matting, but I've just never been too good with that kind of stuff. If I get a pair of Alpine speakers for around $200 will they improve my sound quality noticably over the "premium", ok, let's just say stock front door speakers? I don't need to win any contests, but I'd like the sound to be better than awful. I have the subaru sub, which obviously isn't great, but if I could get some decent mid-bass it would be enough for me.

Maybe if the speakers sound a lot better, it will motivate me to mat the doors. I realize a lot of the mid bass problem is cabin noise, but even sitting still I have nuthin'.
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Old 03-12-2006, 05:00 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elespectro
oh boy. I hate the sound of my "premium" sound system in my impreza. I thought I'd add some new speakers to the doors as a start (I'd like to hear something called mid-bass). I should do some matting, but I've just never been too good with that kind of stuff. If I get a pair of Alpine speakers for around $200 will they improve my sound quality noticably over the "premium", ok, let's just say stock front door speakers? I don't need to win any contests, but I'd like the sound to be better than awful. I have the subaru sub, which obviously isn't great, but if I could get some decent mid-bass it would be enough for me.

Maybe if the speakers sound a lot better, it will motivate me to mat the doors. I realize a lot of the mid bass problem is cabin noise, but even sitting still I have nuthin'.
If you're not too into the matting or just lazy you could just mat the outer door skin with a couple layer behind the speaker magnet and then a layer of ensolite. I started with just that and it did make a noticeable difference in the midbass as it stiffened up the metal behind the speaker. Later I got brave and just did the whole door, BIG DIFFERENCE. Not only did the speakers sound better but the road noise coming through the doors was diminished. I still have to do the rear doors, hopefully soon.

~REVNU
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Old 03-12-2006, 11:35 AM   #16
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Thanks, I think that would be a good way to start. Looking back at the way I worded things I don't know if this came across, but I was also wondering if without any deadening would getting the Alpine's (around $200) sound much better than the "premium" stock speakers or should I just do the deadening before I even bother with new speakers? I guess at the very least I would throw something behind the speakers themselves.

I'd like to do the whole door, but it's the kind of thing I would start, and screw up half way through. I've never been the do it yourself kind of person with cars. Although that may seem like a good reason to not be a part of this forum. I'm here because I'm warming up to giving some of this stuff a try.
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Old 03-13-2006, 03:41 AM   #17
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It shouldn't be hard at all to mat the outer door skins. You will have to take the door panels off to put in new speakers (yes pretty much any decent speaker will sound better than the OEM Premium speakers), so you might as well mat at least the outer door skins behind the speakers. It won't take much mat and will help a little in the midbass response. There's not too much you can screw up matting the outer door skin. If you search on here you will see pictures of what the mat should look like on the outer door skins. One layer on the outer door skin (two behind the speaker) and a layer of ensolite would be good. As I said before, once you get more brave you can later go back and mat the inner door skins. Taking your time to do it right is key and it's really not too hard to do.

If you are going to replace your speakers with aftermarket ones I would HIGHLY suggest amping them. A small 2x50 or 2x75 would be plenty and will sound worlds better than having them powered off the head unit.

Hope that helps a little.

~REVNU
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Old 03-13-2006, 08:45 PM   #18
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Thanks,that helps a lot actually. When I get a little cash, I'll get this "project" rolling. One more question. I did replace the stock HU with a Sony (I know) that is 17rms and 54 watts peak x4. Is that comparable to a small amp? "close enough" anyway?
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Old 03-14-2006, 01:20 AM   #19
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We have a new install guide with some pics now, will be on our much delayed but just about to launch new website as well. In time we plan on having guides for many types of vehicles and different levels of deadening to fit certain budgets, etc.

For now, if you wish to see it drop me an email and I will send it as an attachment, not a big file, loads pretty fast.

Now I have to go back to work, the slavery to my business has begun in earnest, we are growing like mad!!!

Rick
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Old 03-14-2006, 05:35 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elespectro
Thanks,that helps a lot actually. When I get a little cash, I'll get this "project" rolling. One more question. I did replace the stock HU with a Sony (I know) that is 17rms and 54 watts peak x4. Is that comparable to a small amp? "close enough" anyway?
Head unit power is not substitute for an external amp. There is just no comparing the two unless you get a really crappy amp. I know it sounds like a pain, but trust me it is well worth it to get a halfway decent low cost amp to power those aftermarket speakers.

~REVNU
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Old 04-25-2006, 01:57 PM   #21
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Alot of good info here, thanks guys. I'm planning on doing this when I install my Focal components, so hopefully I'll be sounding good again.

Question though...what kind of mat are you guys using? I've heard some names being thrown around, but I've never heard of them before. My ONLY experience is with dynamat. I've done a little research on e-dead (or whatever it is called)...what do you all recommend?
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Old 04-25-2006, 02:56 PM   #22
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since you only need matting to do 2 things (dampen vibration of panels by adding weight and stay stuck to what you stick it to), any brand that accomplishes these two things is (roughly) equivalent to any other.

that being said, cost becomes a (sometimes major) factor.
the bottom line is RAAM mat geets the job done and is very affordable.
and Rick (at raamaudio) is a great guy, and a site vendor.

i used Cascade matting and I am happy w/ it, but if I had know about RAAM before i bought, I would have went that way for sure.

i think most of the people here who say "you have to buy 'Super Brand' mat" are just trying to justify the fact that THEY bought 'Super Brand'.

also talk to Rick about Ensolite foam (sheet).
Matting dampens vibrations, it does not block sound.
Ensolite foam does.

end of endorsement.
:-)
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Old 04-25-2006, 03:09 PM   #23
1-3-2-4
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Great info^^^, thanks. I didn't even put 2 and 2 together with Rick, his screen name, and RAAM matting. Oh well, I have my moments.

I'm definitely going to pick this stuff up and get my fronts sounding good. I had planned on deleting my rear speakers altogether, but I was hesistant because I was always of the assumption that rear fill was a necessity. Now, I've been convinced otherwise. The rears will be gone (do 4" speakers that low in the door even qualify as 'rear fill', anyway?).
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Old 04-25-2006, 11:07 PM   #24
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happy to help.
were you convinced by stuff on the forum, or the results in your car?
because there are definitely opinions here on rear fill vs. soundstage and a ton of audio issues.
if you get three 'experts' you will get 4 or more 'answers' and none will agree.
you have to set up your system how YOU like it. it's your car, your $$ and your ears.

make yourself happy first.
:-)
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Old 04-25-2006, 11:12 PM   #25
1-3-2-4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekw
happy to help.
were you convinced by stuff on the forum, or the results in your car?
:-)
A little of both. Years ago, I ran a pretty nice system which among other things, I had a set of image dynamics compression drivers and components up front for my soundstage. It was great.

It's been years since I've been without rear speakers, but given the puny size of the stockers and my general disregard for rear passengers, I'll be content just focusing on the fronts. Plus, that means I can get away with a larger 2 channel amp instead of a 4!
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