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Old 06-01-2012, 06:38 PM   #1
tibug
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Default Removing flex plate from flywheel? Or amianidiot?

Hey everyone. I bought a new flywheel for my Outback (5MT, yes 5MT) and it did not come with the flex plate on it. The weird bolts that hold the flexplate onto the flywheel are weird 6 pointed star shaped bolts and I am confused. I guess Subaru doesn't want me taking those those bolts out? The flywheel is an AC Delco (Yes, AC Delco) and it appears to be the same part sans flexplate. I shouldn't have bought it, but it was 50$ shipped brand new off eBay.

So, 2 options:

1) Find what the hell that bolt style is and swap the flex plate.
2) Chalk it up to a $50 mistake, use the flywheel for a discus and buy an Exedy.


The first option is appealing to my wallet, the second to the slight sense that I do have.

Edit: Update in post 19. Cliff notes: don't buy a ****ing AC Delco unless you like doing things the hard way.
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Last edited by tibug; 06-06-2012 at 12:15 AM.
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Old 06-02-2012, 08:18 AM   #2
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Pics please. The only flywheel that I have seen actually bolt to a flexplate was in a Dodge Neon. The flywheel/clutch/pressure plate were all one unit riveted together. i can't imagine why Subaru would have a flexplate on the flywheel unless the flywheel does not bolt directly to the engine.
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Old 06-02-2012, 08:20 AM   #3
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I always try to leverage my brain to perform as overcomplicated a Rube Goldberg fashioned approach as I possibly can to maintenance in order to save $7. Glad to see someone else does the same thing. I do this by not reading the sticky threads at the top of this forum, especially ones germanely titled such as Clutch & Flywheel FAQ and using lateral thinking with the primary goal of adding drama to my simple life.
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Old 06-02-2012, 08:51 AM   #4
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Ron, you need to leverage your brain to read the very same faq you speak of. After digesting what it says, use that very same information to come back here and make an actual contribution to this thread. Nobody here is contraptionizing anything.

I took the time to look through this "magical" thread and found nothing at all to help this person with the issue at hand.
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:24 AM   #5
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Subarus don't have a flex plate on the fly wheel if they're a MT. The pressure plate bolts to the flywheel.

Did you buy a flywheel for an automatic?
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:44 AM   #6
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Thanks Unabomber. I think you might be a little confused, though. And I think that confusion stems from the fact that I didn't post pictures of my problem. If I had posted pictures, I think I would have saved you the time it took you to write your hilariously sarcastic but utterly useless reply. Apologies, sir.

I'm sorry I didn't post pictures before. Here they are:




Old flywheel:


New flywheel:
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:50 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyc View Post
Subarus don't have a flex plate on the fly wheel if they're a MT. The pressure plate bolts to the flywheel.

Did you buy a flywheel for an automatic?
Okay then maybe it isn't a flex plate...I don't know what to call it then. The "thingy that bolts to the flywheel and contains the eight bolt holes for the crankshaft mount and is not the pressure plate."
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Old 06-02-2012, 10:24 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tibug View Post
Thanks Unabomber. I think you might be a little confused, though. And I think that confusion stems from the fact that I didn't post pictures of my problem. If I had posted pictures, I think I would have saved you the time it took you to write your hilariously sarcastic but utterly useless reply. Apologies, sir.

I'm sorry I didn't post pictures before. Here they are:




Old flywheel:


New flywheel:
Umm... wtf is that??
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Old 06-02-2012, 10:29 AM   #9
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Looks like what I would call a male torx or star bit. If you have a regular 6 point socket that fits tightly on them, you may be able to get them off that way. I would suggest some penetrating oil on them before trying this. You may want to check your local tool stores to see if they have any external torx sockets, too.
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Old 06-02-2012, 10:29 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroTrike View Post
Umm... wtf is that??
Umm, those are the backsides of flywheels. A flywheel attaches to the engine and transfers power.
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Old 06-02-2012, 10:33 AM   #11
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You may be able to get a 12 point socket on there, just make sure there is absolutely no play so you run the lowest chance of stripping the heads off. If that fails, or you feel slippage, go with what dragoontwo said, and find an external torx socket that fits.
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Old 06-02-2012, 10:36 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragoontwo View Post
Looks like what I would call a male torx or star bit. If you have a regular 6 point socket that fits tightly on them, you may be able to get them off that way. I would suggest some penetrating oil on them before trying this. You may want to check your local tool stores to see if they have any external torx sockets, too.
Whoa, I didn't even know they made such a thing, but I just looked up "female torx socket" and it looks very similar, if not identical, to these bolts. Awesome! I already tried a few 6 point and 12 point sockets. The closest one was a 1/2" 6 point socket, but it still wouldn't break it.

Thanks for the help! It's very appreciated.

The last thing is whether it's a good idea to swap the plates or not...I can't think of why it wouldn't be, as long as I use whatever thread locker may or may not have been used on the original bolts. The only problem is I don't know the torque spec.
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Old 06-02-2012, 10:40 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tibug View Post
Umm, those are the backsides of flywheels. A flywheel attaches to the engine and transfers power.
Thanks, I didn't know that..

The "wtf is that" was in reference to the fact that I've never, ever seen a flywheel with a gaping hole that you had to reuse your hub.

I don't think they were meant to be taken apart.

Maybe that's why it was $50?
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Old 06-02-2012, 10:58 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroTrike View Post
Thanks, I didn't know that..

The "wtf is that" was in reference to the fact that I've never, ever seen a flywheel with a gaping hole that you had to reuse your hub.

I don't think they were meant to be taken apart.

Maybe that's why it was $50?
Oh, well you quoted all the pictures so I was confused as to which you were talking about. Yea, I know, it wasn't smart of me to buy an AC Delco, but I bought it according to their website, which said that it was compatible. The pictures on eBay didn't show the whole flywheel because it was packaged in cardboard and plastic wrap.

I know I know...I just want to know if I can use it, though. If I can't, I'm out this $50 plus the $100+ for a new one.
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Old 06-02-2012, 11:11 AM   #15
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Looks like you have a 2pc flywheel... not uncommon... I've never seen those bolts before.. Was your car converted to MT??

Most have a solid fly..



50$ shipped spookes me for something that spins up to 6k+
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Old 06-02-2012, 11:35 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron'z 2.5RS View Post
Looks like you have a 2pc flywheel... not uncommon... I've never seen those bolts before.. Was your car converted to MT??

Most have a solid fly..


50$ shipped spookes me for something that spins up to 6k+
No, my car has always had a manual transmission...as far as I know.

It's a $110 part on Rockauto. $50 shipped was the eBay auction I won.

Edit: I can't find a definitive size for the Torx head. It seems that it's between E-14 and E-16. It's probably an E-16, but if Subaru REALLY didn't want people taking this thing off, then it would be the E-15 which I cannot find.
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Old 06-02-2012, 11:59 AM   #17
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Here's some more information on this for anyone interested:

http://www.rs25.com/forums/f8/t16936...-flywheel.html

It appears that an E16 is the right torx socket. I ordered mine from McMaster Carr for $5.89 + shipping. Better than $100+ for a new flywheel, but we will see if this is a wise choice when I get the engine back in. I will try to update this thread if I remember.

Last edited by tibug; 06-02-2012 at 12:34 PM.
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Old 06-02-2012, 06:17 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tibug View Post
Whoa, I didn't even know they made such a thing, but I just looked up "female torx socket" and it looks very similar, if not identical, to these bolts. Awesome! I already tried a few 6 point and 12 point sockets. The closest one was a 1/2" 6 point socket, but it still wouldn't break it.

Thanks for the help! It's very appreciated.

The last thing is whether it's a good idea to swap the plates or not...I can't think of why it wouldn't be, as long as I use whatever thread locker may or may not have been used on the original bolts. The only problem is I don't know the torque spec.

No problem. Let us know how it works out. Sometimes the OEM does wacky stuff with parts that should be simple. If I were to guess, it would seem to me that they did that to keep the weight of the flywheel down. Or maybe some other reason.
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Old 06-06-2012, 12:06 AM   #19
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Default Wtf

So that was fun. Jesus Kris Kringle.

I got the E-16 Torx bit in today and went to town on the flywheel bolts. Four came out without a hitch. The rest were a pain in my rectal area and had to be drilled out. Fortunately, the plate remained relatively unscathed. I test fit it on the new flywheel and it is an exact match. We are go for take-off. Oh wait, we need some new bolts first. A couple conclusions/notes thus far:

1) Don't buy a goddamn AC Delco flywheel for your Subaru. It is really not worth the hassle (in my opinion). By the end, I will have spent close to $25 on top of this 50$ flywheel to get it to work. I'm happy that I saved money, but had I known the extra labor involved, I would have happily paid extra...

2) The E-16 Torx is the right size, but it only worked on 4 out of the 9 bolts for me. I had a breaker bar and applied as much downforce to the bit as I could, but the socket is hard as hell to center correctly.

3) There is no form of thread lock on the nine bolts. They are torqued pretty good. Between 30 and 100 Nm (I don't fackin know).

4) This is retarded.

Dammit, it's already after midnight. Goodnight.
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Old 06-06-2012, 12:08 AM   #20
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Those four bolts on the far left of the picture are the ones I got out with the E16 bit. I tried penetrating oil, heat, a dremel/large screwdriver, vise grips, and a drill. The drill was ultimately the only successful way, although I did get one bolt out by only using penetrating oil and the vise grips.



E16 bit:



Plate laying on new flywheel:

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Old 06-08-2012, 04:38 PM   #21
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Thats just goofy. I would have got a solid FW if it would have fit. Would a solid FW fit?
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:06 PM   #22
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Quote:
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Thats just goofy. I would have got a solid FW if it would have fit. Would a solid FW fit?
Yea it would. Could have probably got an Exedy instead.
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Old 06-09-2012, 08:50 PM   #23
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For anyone interested, I finally got the flywheel all set up. Bought some grade 8 hex head bolts from the hardware store to replace the E-16 bolts. I know, grade 8 isn't necessary but it's worth the couple extra bucks for the peace and piece of mind. I torqued them all to 52.2 Nm. Through fastener physics and materials analyzing I came to the conclusion that 52.2 Nm is the optimal torque given the metallurgy of the flywheel.

Yea, I pulled the torque spec out of my ass, but this ass torque was applied by a precisely calibrated Brownline digital torque wrench.

I also drove in the new pilot bearing. With about 6 hours work today, I replaced the rear main seal, resealed the rear access panels, and put together this flywheel. I think I win the award for ratardation.



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Old 06-28-2012, 11:07 PM   #24
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Just wanted to update this to tie up the loose ends in the unlikely event that someone ends up in the situation that I did. I finally finished up my engine and dropped it back in. So far, everything seems great! The new Exedy clutch and the AC Delco flywheel seem to be working flawlessly! I've only driven it a few miles, but there is absolutely no clutch shudder, noise, or trouble shifting. The engagement point of the clutch seems to be higher than it used to be, but I haven't driven this car in so long that it's really a moot point.

To those maybe reading this in the future, here is the rundown:

1) Avoid buying an AC Delco flywheel for your Subaru because it will only come with the flywheel portion of the assembly, not the center mounting plate.
2) Assuming you already bought one, the only thing you need to make it work is the center mounting plate from your old flywheel (hopefully you still have it--the replacement flywheels from Exedy are one-piece so your SOL if that's what is in your car)
3) The nine bolts that hold the plate onto the flywheel are male torx bolts that require an E-16 socket. However, you will likely have to drill the heads off some of them to get them out.
4) Bring the E-16 bolts to the hardware store and pick up some normal hex head bolts that are much more user friendly.
5) Install the flywheel like normal and everything will work perfectly or your money back.

Good luck to anyone who is in this situation...
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Old 10-07-2013, 12:40 PM   #25
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Bumping this thread to say thanks for verifying it's an external torx bolt. I still cannot fathom why. I fell into the same situation when I went to replace the flywheel on our beater 1999 Forester.

I went with this external torx set from Amazon (you never know when these might come up again):

Amazon.com - Anytime Tools 11 pc FEMALE E-TORX (Star) SOCKET Set w/RAIL E4 - E20Amazon.com - Anytime Tools 11 pc FEMALE E-TORX (Star) SOCKET Set w/RAIL E4 - E20

Also, I had no problems at all removing the torx bolts. I put the E16 from the above set onto my impact on a low setting and it had no problem taking out each one. I just laid the flywheel face down in the garage and put my weight on the impact to help it stay seated on the shallow fastener grooves. I figured worst case scenario the head snaps off, but since it's in the old flywheel I didn't really care. Hopefully that helps others.
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