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Old 07-14-2012, 06:36 PM   #26
Scooby South
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JDM Speedwagon 3 LSDs..:)

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Well Hello Thar...

Question for the LSD guru...
I am autocrossing...would you 1.0, 1.5 or 2.0..

I am thinking 1.5... but open to suggestions..

Bill
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Old 07-17-2012, 01:23 PM   #27
Matt Monson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby South View Post
Well Hello Thar...

Question for the LSD guru...
I am autocrossing...would you 1.0, 1.5 or 2.0..

I am thinking 1.5... but open to suggestions..

Bill
Sorry, we don't speak Japanese around these parts...

Here's what I mean. The whole 1, 1.5 and 2 way thing is a patently Japanese LSD manufacturer methodology of talking about set up. It's really vague and obtuse as far as I am concerned.

We use the terminology that was started by Porsche and ZF and continues to be used by most of the German marques to this day. 90% of what we currently manufacture would be what the Japanese call a 1.5 way LSD. However, I'll give you some examples that further clarify. Porsche calls it percentage of anti-slip effectiveness. We just call it percentage locking factor (which is not to be confused with ramp angle in degrees, which the Japanese also something throw into the mix).

When we talk locking factor we talk about both lock up on acceleration and lock up under braking. We always list the acceleration lock up first. So here's some examples:

Mk5/6 GTi: 90/30
911: 40/60
944: 60/40
Cayman: 45/65
STi: 85/35 front, 80/80 rear

What you can see there is that how you configure an LSD varies widely with respect to both where the engine is placed and which wheels are driven.



Every LSD we manufacture actually carries two pairs of ramp cut outs on the pressure rings. I have only listed the most popular configuration of each vechicle above, and each one has another tuning option based on moving the pins over to the other ramps. Our pins are always round and we don't fiddle with those funky trapezoidal/triangular ramps like the Japanese companies do. IMO, there are better ways to tune an LSD.

That said, how you configure the LSD in a BRZ is going to vary with application. I suspect you've got it right with wanting to go toward less lock up under braking on corner entry and more on exit. And I think that in all but the most high powered BRZs, that's what they will like, whether it is auto-x or a road course.

As we go through this process, my car is going to be a real life test mule. I'm going to start with the standard 944 (front engine RWD) ramps that are 60/40 and 80/50 as the two options. I will simultaneously make a set of ramps that are 60/60 and 80/80 to be able to switch in and out. Fortunately, I've got a great racetrack here and should be able to rangle Robb Holland into doing some back to back testing with me to get a professional opinion of what is best before we release this stuff out into the open market. We want to make sure we are putting something out there that is the right product and configuration for this chassis. While this product is being fast-tracked, it also isn't going to be rushed. Though there's still a good chance this LSD will make a great Christmas present.
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Old 07-18-2012, 10:14 PM   #28
Scooby South
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^^^^ Very informative Matt...thank you very much.. If you need a National level Tester..I am your man... and since you know Tom..that makes it even better.

Bill
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Old 07-19-2012, 01:05 PM   #29
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Bill,
Keep in touch over time. I saw in your build thread you were looking to use the Giken. They don't like me very much....
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:19 PM   #30
Matt Monson
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In the immortal words of Styx... Secret, secret, I've got a secret!
More to come tomorrow.
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Old 07-24-2012, 09:58 AM   #31
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great stuff, thanks for sharing the development with everyone.
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:31 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
In the immortal words of Styx... Secret, secret, I've got a secret!
More to come tomorrow.
Subscribed
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Old 07-24-2012, 01:57 PM   #33
Matt Monson
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Now the thing about a secret is that it's no fun if you keep it all to yourself. You've got share it at least a little bit...

http://www.facebook.com/mmonson71/po...type=1&theater
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:33 PM   #34
Scooby South
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JDM Speedwagon 3 LSDs..:)

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
Bill,
Keep in touch over time. I saw in your build thread you were looking to use the Giken. They don't like me very much....
will do sir......the winter is coming, which means the car ain't going nowhere cept up on blocks for the winter..

Bill
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Old 08-03-2012, 12:43 PM   #35
Matt Monson
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'73 914 and 2012 BRZ

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby South View Post
will do sir......the winter is coming, which means the car ain't going nowhere cept up on blocks for the winter..

Bill
I thought Christmas was in the Winter, but it looks like Santa Claus came early this year...

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Old 08-03-2012, 01:29 PM   #36
Calamity Jesus
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So, it is officially an AZ6 or did they give it another designation?

Are the mounts next to the shift shaft used for supporting the shift lever or for mounting the trans?
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Old 08-03-2012, 01:36 PM   #37
Matt Monson
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They appear to be calling is an AA8. There's 4 bolt holes on the underside that appear to be for the tranny mount. I suspect that what you are seeing is related to the shifting assembly. I really need to get my car up on a lift and give it a good poking around.

I'll have it at the dealer for the first oil change in the next week or so. I'll see about getting some uncarriage shots then.
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Old 08-03-2012, 01:38 PM   #38
Calamity Jesus
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Very interesting. Thanks, Matt. Congrats on the 'research materials'.

What kind of products do you intend to make for the trans? Gearsets?
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Old 08-03-2012, 02:31 PM   #39
Matt Monson
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See that really pretty bellhousing? Gonna rip the rest of the gearbox off it and bolt up our V8 touring car sequential gearbox to it, kind of like Gazoo did with a Holinger box when they ran the 24 Hours of the Ring last month.

That will be the first official product for the car. I'll install it in my personal car until we find a race team that wants to buy it. With it in my car they'll be able to try before they buy, even if it's not in a full blown race car.

We've finished measuring Tom's TBD and have started turning bodies for the prototype LSDs. Gonna do an initial run of half a dozen for testing while we determine what the best locking factors are for the chassis.

Then, sometime next year we'll take the rest of that gearbox you see there and make a short ratio dog box option for it. I'd like to get to it sooner than that, but we've given a Cayman sequential gearbox priority over the BRZ/FRS products. We've only got one engineer on staff, so nothing gets developed quickly.

Those are the only 3 products planned at this point. We don't mess around with the synchronized stuff.
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Old 08-03-2012, 10:31 PM   #40
Calamity Jesus
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Is that sequential box going to howl on the street, or are they helical gears?
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:44 PM   #41
Matt Monson
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Gonna howl. Not helical gears. Not that I am going to care. I wouldn't ever try to sell it to someone with a street car anyway. I can live with it, but would never ask anyone else to. Actually, that's a lie. I sell straight cut gears to 996TT and GT3 owners all the time.
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Old 08-06-2012, 06:59 AM   #42
DHRDAN
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How much does this car suck???????? It's slow... no power... .. how do you like this car..

????????????


mr mattson... you car sucks... recognize....... then come and talk to me.



you're a ****ing ***.got.. too. lol
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:56 AM   #43
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^ Wut?
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:30 AM   #44
Matt Monson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom@kartboy View Post
^ Wut?
That's Dan. He's a professional troll. He follows me around harassing me until he gets banned for a while. Then he gets a 6 month timeout. Rinse. Repeat.
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:58 AM   #45
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Sweet. I've had a few stalkers over the years. Nothing this good. You must be doing something right.
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:47 PM   #46
Matt Monson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom@kartboy View Post
Sweet. I've had a few stalkers over the years. Nothing this good. You must be doing something right.
You think Dan is good? Check out my old buddy Sixpack...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...aussie&page=40
Sixpack was straight up off his rocker...
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:57 PM   #47
tom@kartboy
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LulZ

all my stalker ever did was send me emails threatening to kill my family...
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Old 08-06-2012, 03:18 PM   #48
Matt Monson
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http://jalopnik.com/5614985/huge-por...s-his-porsches

This guy threatened me once, in person. On one of the Porsche boards I called his hoard of 911s and 912s a pile of turds. He was very upset by this to the point that the next time he came down to Colorado for a PCA event I got right up in my face with a bunch," Are you still such a big man in person? What do you have to say now that you aren't hiding behind your keyboard? etc. etc." It was pretty funny. This was in someone's shop with about 50 PCA members who all knew his story standing around watching. I just told him he had a lot of nerve acting like that in someone else's place of business but if he wanted to talk further we could go outside. He just turned and stormed off to the buffett table and made himself a plate of food.

To this day he still sends me angry emails every once in a while. He goes on about how he's going to ruin my business and that I'm just a stupid greasy handed mechanic and he's going to make sure nobody ever brings their car to my non-existent shop. He still doesn't know what I really do for a living. He stalked me for a while and assumed I was a gearbox mechanic. He doesn't have a clue.
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Old 08-06-2012, 04:49 PM   #49
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:like:
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Old 08-07-2012, 10:40 AM   #50
silverhks
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Wow! That's hilarious and scary at the same time
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