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Old 06-19-2012, 02:44 PM   #26
Tainen
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Hey Phil.

some tire/wheel questions for ya.

You went with an 18, can you help me understand this decision? I'm not sure if I want to go 17 or 18. I thought there was performance ramifications if you went 18 instead of 17? Some people say that 18s are for show 17s are for go, but I'm not sure about the real data behind that. Also does tire selection play a big role in that decision? Especially for a street car I guess.
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Old 06-19-2012, 02:54 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrad_150 View Post
It seems like tuners are leaning towards the scion? I lot of the interior i guess doesnt matter for someone who wants to just get it track ready. I have always hated scions just because of the other little wanna be cars and such but this FRS might pull the name out of the lake! I myself mfg. CF parts for subies and I have been studying this new FT86 and just kind of stuck between getting the FRS or BRZ.
For us it was really a matter of what I could get first. Then it was price and not really needing the extra nicer bits like the headlights and some interior leather trim that comes on the top of the line BRZ because it's going to be a track car. People already know us in the Subaru community so I knew it wasn't going to be a big deal either way.

Now that I own it and I've looked over the BRZ enough I think the FRS front end is the winner for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrad_150 View Post
Also is the Raven black like just plain ol' black no metallic or anything ? Because I hate black with metallic in it!
It's has a high metallic content in it but since my car is always dirty it just looks black.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrad_150 View Post
Good job guys on the color choice! Besides white the black is killing it with the looks reminds me of an all black ferrari 599
I really wanted black or white so I was happy to get a black one so quickly. It's going to be a mean looking car is full race trim!
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:19 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tainen View Post
Hey Phil.

some tire/wheel questions for ya.

You went with an 18, can you help me understand this decision? I'm not sure if I want to go 17 or 18. I thought there was performance ramifications if you went 18 instead of 17? Some people say that 18s are for show 17s are for go, but I'm not sure about the real data behind that. Also does tire selection play a big role in that decision? Especially for a street car I guess.
You know it's really going to depend on your end goal for the car. Having raced this car already in classes way above what this car should run in and compared the times to where the car should class, here are my suggestions.

If you are going to keep it NA I would say keep the car as light as possible. This means the lightest wheels and the lightest tires. You will be better off with a narrower tire and rim that will allow maximum negative camber. Since the car is pretty light I would even say keep the OEM brakes, just do cooling and brake pads.

Now if you are going to build a turbo setup like us, then follow our lead. 18" wheels will give you more room for a huge brake kit and a larger diameter tire increases your contact patch. We also run a radial slick in Porsche Cup sizes which are 18".

Most of what I've done was because I had the stuff laying around from the STi race car not really because I thought it was best for an NA BRZ/FRS.
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Old 06-20-2012, 12:32 AM   #29
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epic. Thanks for the wonderful advice

I'm just doing bolt ons right now. Headers were just designed on the car this week... hoping to get near 200whp with just bolt ons and a tune. I'm thinking something like 17x8 with 225s, maybe as high as 245s. I really want some enkei nt03m+s in hyper black (fell in love with them when they were on the wall at world one), but the only ones I can seem to find in stock anywhere are 17x7.5 +38. no idea of that would fit or be a compromise, since everyone else seems to be going +45 or so.
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Old 06-20-2012, 02:48 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tainen
epic. Thanks for the wonderful advice

I'm just doing bolt ons right now. Headers were just designed on the car this week... hoping to get near 200whp with just bolt ons and a tune. I'm thinking something like 17x8 with 225s, maybe as high as 245s. I really want some enkei nt03m+s in hyper black (fell in love with them when they were on the wall at world one), but the only ones I can seem to find in stock anywhere are 17x7.5 +38. no idea of that would fit or be a compromise, since everyone else seems to be going +45 or so.
I doubt the +38 offset would be a problem. The stock wheels are +48 right? I mocked up some 17x9s +28 and was surprised that it wasn't too bad. Just had an issue with the 5x100 holes on my wheels or I might have been able to do it.

I think +45 is just more common for 17x8.
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Old 06-21-2012, 06:57 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tainen View Post

I'm just doing bolt ons right now. Headers were just designed on the car this week... hoping to get near 200whp with just bolt ons and a tune.
200whp from headers/exhaust on a NA 2.0L that produces 160whp? You're gonna have to wait for cams to hit 200whp. And then you're gonna have to pull the motor to install cams.

Unless you're going to wait for bolt-on supercharger/turbocharger. There's no way this motor will make 250hp with just an intake/exhaust/tune combo.
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Old 06-21-2012, 03:48 PM   #32
Tainen
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I suppose we'll see.

My car is already at 170whp, from 159 starting, with just a downpipe and axleback.

I expect intake to add 3-5, and headers to add 10. 183-185 whp... (the car is on the dyno right now). After a tune, who knows, maybe 190-195. From there, some simple things like pulleys, lighter suspension components, etc, and it'll be at around that level.
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Old 06-21-2012, 04:11 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tainen
I suppose we'll see.

My car is already at 170whp, from 159 starting, with just a downpipe and axleback.

I expect intake to add 3-5, and headers to add 10. 183-185 whp... (the car is on the dyno right now). After a tune, who knows, maybe 190-195. From there, some simple things like pulleys, lighter suspension components, etc, and it'll be at around that level.
Where did you get the downpipe and axleback from?
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Old 06-21-2012, 04:51 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m_clark54 View Post
Where did you get the downpipe and axleback from?
  1. Tainen's BRZ thread.

  2. His reply in the BRZ Aftermarket Parts thread that concerns his exhaust.
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Old 06-21-2012, 05:45 PM   #35
Tainen
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Calamity, has anyone ever told you how awesome you are?



here's the dyno results thread:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8755

Sorry for de-railing your thread ET! To get it back on topic:
Any potential solutions for the power steering? Remove it all together?
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Old 06-21-2012, 06:37 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tainen View Post
I suppose we'll see.

My car is already at 170whp, from 159 starting, with just a downpipe and axleback.

I expect intake to add 3-5, and headers to add 10. 183-185 whp... (the car is on the dyno right now). After a tune, who knows, maybe 190-195. From there, some simple things like pulleys, lighter suspension components, etc, and it'll be at around that level.
That said, you're expecting 30whp from headers and a tune on a NA 2.0L, and that's about what a typical v6 gets from headers, some not even that. IDK, but..... good luck. I still think this power plant is going to need cams in the bolt-on-brew of parts to hit 200whp and certainly not on anything but premium fuel.

To what RPM do you plan on raising the limiter to?

I'll be watching your thread, so keep us up to date!
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Old 06-21-2012, 07:02 PM   #37
Tainen
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headers, intake, exhaust, tune, expecting around 23-25whp. hoping for 30.
I'll be updating my thread with the header dyno information as soon as I have it. it's on the dyno right now. (also getting individual power figures for several other parts)

ET: I saw you mention in the other thread, that all race cars these days have power steering, so I guess you can't really go without. Hmm. So I guess some sort of aftermarket power steering setup will haveto be used? Sounds complicated.
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Old 06-21-2012, 08:29 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tainen View Post
headers, intake, exhaust, tune, expecting around 23-25whp. hoping for 30.
I'll be updating my thread with the header dyno information as soon as I have it. it's on the dyno right now. (also getting individual power figures for several other parts)

ET: I saw you mention in the other thread, that all race cars these days have power steering, so I guess you can't really go without. Hmm. So I guess some sort of aftermarket power steering setup will haveto be used? Sounds complicated.
That torque dip is ugly and reminds one of Hondas and their vtec changeover. Power looks like there's no point in waiting till 7400rpms to shift, more like 7100 and some change. I bet cams could resolve that!
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Old 06-21-2012, 08:35 PM   #39
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You can drive around the power steering issue but you'll give up some lap time. When we get more serious with the car we may have to look into making some sort of cooler.
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Old 06-21-2012, 09:12 PM   #40
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How does electric power steering even work? Is it still a pump and fluid?
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Old 06-21-2012, 09:24 PM   #41
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There is no pump and fluid, it's an electric motor in the steering column. Instead of cooling it it might be better to piggyback the steering control unit and reduce the voltage going to the motor. This would increase steering effort but in theory would reduce the amount of heat generated.
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Old 06-21-2012, 10:17 PM   #42
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In theory it shouldn't require much effort to overcome turning the electric motor unlike a fluid pump on a normal ps rack. So why would I be getting that sensation? I'm guessing to have a quick rack there is very little gear reduction and I'm just fighting the natural tendency for the car to want to go straight while braking with such massively sticky race tires.
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Old 06-21-2012, 10:49 PM   #43
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Maybe.....just mayyybe they shouldn't have used this electric motor system for the power steering on a car they know people are going to be racing on tracks with. Just sayin!
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Old 06-22-2012, 07:19 AM   #44
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Besides this particular issue on big race rubber the steering feels spectacular. I'm hoping a simple blower motor directed at the PS motor will do the trick or maybe even an ice pack.
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Old 06-22-2012, 11:19 AM   #45
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Hey Phil. It's Billy from Freed Engineering. Met you at Hyperfest. Car was looking good sunday on the track.

I dunno if you guys do much welding/fab work but we will have a great exhaust system for turbo/race applications.
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Old 06-22-2012, 12:43 PM   #46
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Thanks CJ!
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Old 06-24-2012, 10:43 AM   #47
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The Gurus at Hydra EMS sniffing CAN data for Hydra EMS implementation. The CAN system is very extensive on the FRS/BRZ but they've cracked everything they need for the CAN integration into the Hydra EMS



Let the wiring begin! Stand-alone EMS integration these days if very involved for plug and play systems. Full CAN integration is the only way to go. We've already found mistakes in a few of the wiring schematics (not uncommon in the early stages).



And you thought your stereo wiring was tough. Luckily Hydra EMS is plug and play.



Here is a baseline dyno (OEM ECU) we did while dumping CAN data. This was done with 18x9.5 wheels. Dyno operator at ISP mentioned his dyno reads low. Not concerned at the point as I will most likely be doing my work on a Mustang dyno and will baseline again.

The Element Hydra EMS is in our FRS so stay tuned!
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Old 07-01-2012, 11:58 PM   #48
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I've been running the Hydra EMS in full stand-alone over the last couple days and have spent many hours feeling out this engine. As I suspected the torque dip is primarily due to the intake and exhaust cam timing. You can smooth this out but its hard to say what I'm giving up or gaining until i get it on the dyno. Since i am tuning from zero and not from stock I have still have a long way to go but I'm getting the impression the more I boost low rpm power the more you feel that dip.

Maximizing the power curve on pump gas will be tough but with E85 or race fuel there is lots to be gained but she's knock prone on pump. This is why the oem maps goes really rich at high rpm.

We are going to make a push to extract some decent NA power out of this for Ultimate Track Car Challenge.
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Old 07-02-2012, 06:19 PM   #49
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really glad to see someone using their BRZ/FRS as a track car. good luck with it and nice talking with you and the crew at njmp.

my local Subaru dealer contacted me Saturday to let me know they received their BRZ it's been running through my mind all weekend but I'm just not sure what I really want to do. when I bought my STi it wasn't like that I knew I wanted it and that was it.
once again good luck hope to see you at the track soon.
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Old 07-05-2012, 11:10 AM   #50
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Interesting.
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