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Old 06-17-2012, 10:04 PM   #1
White64Goat
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Exclamation Stiff Steering?

I think I read in one of the other posts in here (possibly from someone who did some on-track time) that their steering seemed to get stiff. I found this right in the BRZ Owners Manual on page 215:

Reduced effectiveness of the electric power steering system

The effectiveness of the electric power steering system is reduced to prevent the system from overheating when there is frequent steering input over an extended period of time. The steering wheel may feel heavy as a result. Should this occur, refrain from excessive steering input or stop the vehicle and turn the engine off. The electric power steering system should return to normal after a little while.

Nice huh? Hey, on lap 3 pull over in turn 6 six sit a few laps...
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:05 PM   #2
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I think you are referring to the Element Tuning post.

I would really like to get some numbers here. "extended period of time" ?
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Old 06-19-2012, 12:25 AM   #3
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Yeah right forget about turning just run into the tire wall. LOL!

It was a fairly major issue for me at Summit Point this weekend racing. I don't hear many others complaining about it but i don't think anyone else is racing the car as hard as we are on slicks.
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Old 06-19-2012, 12:29 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverhks View Post
I think you are referring to the Element Tuning post.

I would really like to get some numbers here. "extended period of time" ?
Very first lap I had issues. It seems to be more related to the sequence of turns and length vs. Time on the track. Its most prominent when trying to trail brake. On both tracks I've raced the FRS is was at a particular section of track not the number of laps i ran. So if it acted up on lap 1 in one section, even on the 8th lap it wouldn't be a problem elsewhere , just always in a particular section.
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Old 06-20-2012, 10:51 AM   #5
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So it's number of inputs close together, as opposed to continual, long term usage like at a track.

That could be bad for my intended goal of an autox car. We tend to do many more fast, repetitive inputs than you track guys.

OTH, several have been autox with no one else mentioning it. So maybe it takes the added resistance of big race rubber.

Phil, were you still on the old rubber? Or did you replace it?
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Old 06-20-2012, 03:04 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverhks View Post
So it's number of inputs close together, as opposed to continual, long term usage like at a track.

That could be bad for my intended goal of an autox car. We tend to do many more fast, repetitive inputs than you track guys.

OTH, several have been autox with no one else mentioning it. So maybe it takes the added resistance of big race rubber.

Phil, were you still on the old rubber? Or did you replace it?
I did swap tires but same brand, compound, and size. Each place is usually a long sweeping turn with braking happening while car is still turning. I'm sure its releated to the sequence extra for this requires along with serious race tires.
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Old 06-20-2012, 03:37 PM   #7
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Isn't stiff steering what you want in racing situations anyways? When you're moving power steering isn't a must. Hell my 67 Nova and 90 Civic Si didn't have PS and I had no problem with them. I see this as a non-issue. I put a quick column in my RS which stiffened my steering as well but I have no issue with it.
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Old 06-20-2012, 05:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lminette View Post
Isn't stiff steering what you want in racing situations anyways? When you're moving power steering isn't a must. Hell my 67 Nova and 90 Civic Si didn't have PS and I had no problem with them. I see this as a non-issue. I put a quick column in my RS which stiffened my steering as well but I have no issue with it.
It's not the same as a car with no PS (BRZ owners correct me if I'm wrong) - but you fight the motor as well.

If this is anything like when you boil PS fluid (like my 05 STi in Auto-X, even with Synthetic fluid) and the PS cuts out - it is more than just like going to a non-PS car. You are actually fighting the pump/fluid and I wonder if this electric motor gives similar resistance. I have to crank the wheel HARD when my fluid is boiling, more than if it simply didn't have PS.

Imagine a quick transition - left/right/left and the PS is will change half-way into the corner - NOT FUN SAFE OR FAST. Hope they get this fixed.
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Old 06-20-2012, 09:22 PM   #9
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Kind of seems to me like if it's in the owners manual, they know about it and now I guess they wait until a few people wreck them and the NHTSB gets involved and there's a recall and it could be a couple of years before they're forced to come up with a solution.
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Old 06-20-2012, 10:14 PM   #10
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There have been plenty of guys who have autocrossed both the BRZ and FRS at this point and I haven't heard any reports of this happening during an autocross, even in cars with multiple drivers.

I had planned a trip to the dragon... not sure about doing like 300 tight turns with the runoff being a ravine.

Phil, how many laps did you do before you saw the issue?
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Old 06-20-2012, 10:31 PM   #11
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Note the auto-x guys on stock tires aren't having major issues. The race tires he is running are probably amplifying the effect considerably. Read thru the manual on the Civic Si which i believe is an electric rack also. If it has the same warning I wouldn't worry over much.
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Old 06-21-2012, 07:20 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwx View Post
There have been plenty of guys who have autocrossed both the BRZ and FRS at this point and I haven't heard any reports of this happening during an autocross, even in cars with multiple drivers.

I had planned a trip to the dragon... not sure about doing like 300 tight turns with the runoff being a ravine.

Phil, how many laps did you do before you saw the issue?
An acquaintance of mine took his FRS through the dragon, repeatedly on a Monday. No reported problems with the steering. I wouldnt be concerned about this on street tires..

He DID comment that the brakes began to fade after the 2nd pass,and that he noticed it being on a soft stock suspension.

I'm thinking the steering is only going to show up with BIG race rubber/ maybe r-comps


Phil, trail braking is a Major component of my driving style... OTH, there are not many long corners of any type in autox

Last edited by silverhks; 06-21-2012 at 01:51 PM. Reason: for clarity
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Old 06-21-2012, 03:47 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverhks View Post
An acquaintance of mine took his FRS through the dragon, repeatedly on a Monday. No reported problems with the steering. I wouldnt be concerned about this on street tires..

He DID comment that the brakes began to fade after the 2nd pass,and that he noticed it being on a soft stock suspension.

I'm thinking the steering is only going to show up with BIG race rubber/ maybe r-comps


Phil, trail braking is a Major component of my driving style... OTH, there are not many long corners of any type in autox
Yeah I agree it's probably more of an issue with race rubber. I did lap the car with OEM rubber and I didn't experience that.

I'm also a major trail braker which is exacerbating this issue for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPotter View Post
It's not the same as a car with no PS (BRZ owners correct me if I'm wrong) - but you fight the motor as well.

If this is anything like when you boil PS fluid (like my 05 STi in Auto-X, even with Synthetic fluid) and the PS cuts out - it is more than just like going to a non-PS car. You are actually fighting the pump/fluid and I wonder if this electric motor gives similar resistance. I have to crank the wheel HARD when my fluid is boiling, more than if it simply didn't have PS.

Imagine a quick transition - left/right/left and the PS is will change half-way into the corner - NOT FUN SAFE OR FAST. Hope they get this fixed.
This is exactly right when you loose power steering on a power assist rack it's not the same as not having PS at all. Also every modern professional motorsports road racing car has power steering as its required to be able to turn the wheel with huge grip and downforce.
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Old 06-24-2012, 05:21 PM   #14
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The good news is that during the Hydra EMS development this weekend we discovered the interaction between the EMS and the power steering (CAN systems) and we can manipulate the system to try and tune this out. The system is tuned via speed and RPM at the very least but we should be able to dial back the power steering on the track in an effort to reduce heat build up.
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Old 06-25-2012, 06:30 PM   #15
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Increasing effort slightly for consistent feel seems like a winner to me
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Old 06-26-2012, 10:47 AM   #16
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It would be nice if there was at least a way to know it was going into overheating mode. It might not be hard to add cooling under the dash(i.e. small fan).
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Old 06-26-2012, 11:26 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nquillen View Post
It would be nice if there was at least a way to know it was going into overheating mode. It might not be hard to add cooling under the dash(i.e. small fan).
We are confident the system is backing down due to overheating under the conditions I'm putting it through. It's easier for us to dial back the power steering at high speed to see if it's beneficial than to convince Hydra EMS to strap $3000+ worth of equipment in it while I go around the track at race pace
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