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Old 06-22-2012, 05:46 PM   #26
aschen
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it is more FUN to use 3 pedals.......


when I am having fun I feel superior to those who are bored. Launch control is pretty silly in the real world. Then again 2 of my 3 cars don't have cup holders .
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Old 06-22-2012, 06:17 PM   #27
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Not too surprising considering it's size and customer base at this point. It's a stellar car but is mostly a fashion accessory.
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Old 06-22-2012, 06:58 PM   #28
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I wouldn't mind this as long as they offer the dual clutch technology and things like paddle shifters. It will be years before the cars that are really built for driving enthusiast and not luxury status machines are moved away from manual transmissions.

Interestingly enough, there was something that came out recently that said manual transmissions had made a comeback in the US and were selling very well. I can't remember where I read it though.
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Old 06-22-2012, 07:02 PM   #29
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MAD magazine? :P
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Old 06-22-2012, 07:20 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83 View Post
But in this day and age, even the 2013 Mustang GT500 has launch control (and I thought that the Z06 or ZR1 might have had it introduced recently, if I'm not mistaken), but I don't think that it ever gets criticized; it actually gets praised by most for its "optimized" launches. But on something like the GT-R, the perception of its launch control is quite different.
Actually launch control for any car is purely for numbers. Completely useless feature unless you care about bragging or making You tube videos of course.
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Old 06-22-2012, 07:55 PM   #31
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Actually launch control for any car is purely for numbers.
I think there are a lot of things added to cars purely for numbers. You could make the same argument for faster-shifting automated manuals introduced throughout the past several years, with one company saying that theirs shifts in 100 ms and another company saying that theirs shifts in 50 ms.
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:09 PM   #32
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hai guys.

automatic > manual when it comes to performance.

last i checked physically shifting a gear is no where near close to seamless shifting.

so sure if you want to feel connected and "faster" go ahead and ask for the stick.

but on a 4000lb boat... no thanks.
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:11 PM   #33
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Not you could say that, you SHOULD say that. Automated manuals are only there for numbers bragging rights. They are not cheaper. They are not stronger. They are only their for quicker lap times around the track because they save time shifting. For a daily driver, it is an automatic for all intensive purposes. What it lacks is the involvement.

Made just for numbers...
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:32 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
Not you could say that, you SHOULD say that. Automated manuals are only there for numbers bragging rights. They are not cheaper. They are not stronger. They are only their for quicker lap times around the track because they save time shifting. For a daily driver, it is an automatic for all intensive purposes. What it lacks is the involvement.

Made just for numbers...
menh. in this day and age if you are buying a 4000lb vehicle you are not interested in rowing gears.

you just want to mash the pedal and go.
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:33 PM   #35
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also scuse me as i am a fifth deep in various alcohols right now.
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Old 06-23-2012, 08:13 AM   #36
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Then I think you are amazingly coherent ID!
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:18 AM   #37
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If anything, if fans want to be pissed and blame someone about the presence of paddle shifted automated manuals in production performance cars, then blame the racing industry, since they are the ones obsessed with performance numbers and quicker lap times over the 'heart and soul' of true manual transmissions. So basically it's time to lynch Bernie Eccelstone, the various members of the FIA and other bigwigs in prof motorsports for allowing such transmissions to proliferate and ruin it for the ordinary folk.
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Old 06-23-2012, 11:05 AM   #38
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if you truly want heart and soul go drive a 60s roadster.

no synchros.... lots of clunking, horrible suspension, feeling every bump in the road etc.

I think a lot of you guys need to accept progress.

There was a time when I absolutely hated automatics... but after driving the IS350 and some VW DSGs I am sold on them.

Sure I love driving a stick shift, I recognize that there is a place for them... and a $70k 4000lb grand tourer is not that place.
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Old 06-23-2012, 11:52 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indocti Discant View Post
if you truly want heart and soul go drive a 60s roadster.

no synchros.... lots of clunking, horrible suspension, feeling every bump in the road etc.

I think a lot of you guys need to accept progress.

There was a time when I absolutely hated automatics... but after driving the IS350 and some VW DSGs I am sold on them.

Sure I love driving a stick shift, I recognize that there is a place for them... and a $70k 4000lb grand tourer is not that place.
I agree, what makes me sad about this report is not that there are types of performance cars in which a true manual transmission is a bit out of place, but that the M5 has become one of them.

The new 3er is like the old 5er, so I guess the new M3 will be like the old M5.

I only wish the 1er wasn't so damn ugly.
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Old 06-23-2012, 12:30 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO
For a daily driver, it is an automatic for all intensive purposes. What it lacks is the involvement.
I agree with the sentiment that autos lack involvement. I'd also like to note that while the purposes being discussed may be intense, the idiom actually is "for all intents and purposes."



/me does clutchless upshifts all the time... with the dogbox on his motorcycle. That's a class of vehicles that's largely stayed true to its involvement-at-all-costs roots.
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Old 06-23-2012, 12:48 PM   #41
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5 of my last 7 cars that ive driven and owned have been MT, so nobody can accuse me of being some AT elitist.

But I'll say this, yes it sucks that MT is being phased out as an option in certain cars, for others I feel like it brings nothing do the table performance wise, but at the same time, why do we care.

The simple truth is manual drivers feel like it makes them better people than those who aren't. I know this is true in my case and pretty much everyone else who drives manual. Those who deny it are in denial or lying. Also those who argue that driving MT makes them feel more like 'one with the machine' it's true to an extent

but it's also incredibly self-important, fatuous, pompous, nonsense. It's the equivalent of someone tooting his own horn. If someone likes driving manual for the saking of driving manual, that's great. But when one is openly vocal about it as some thinly veiled gesture of 'look how awesome I am! and you guys who don't suck!' really need to get over themselves.
(I love my MT Subaru. It's not because I think I'm better than other drivers. It's because I feel more involved with the driving experience. I feel more engaged using my hands and feet more. I simply enjoy it.)

That being said, you're looking from the wrong perspective to base your criticism. The car industry is business. So all the chatter is just talk unless it's affecting a buying customer's decision. I may only drive MT sports cars for a long time. So my enjoyment of the MT is important... To a lower price range than an M5. lol.

The only opinions that matter to BMW are the opinions of BMW shoppers that have the income to afford one and who are in the market. Same goes with all car makers. What you should criticize is how thousands of people have comments on just about every car and what they don't like about them. But if you ask 90% of them if they're even in the market to buy one, they say "No".
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Old 06-23-2012, 01:46 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
I agree with the sentiment that autos lack involvement. I'd also like to note that while the purposes being discussed may be intense, the idiom actually is "for all intents and purposes."



/me does clutchless upshifts all the time... with the dogbox on his motorcycle. That's a class of vehicles that's largely stayed true to its involvement-at-all-costs roots.
that was really nagging me... but I have often too many times opposed scrappydoo so kept quiet.

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Old 06-23-2012, 06:35 PM   #43
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Yeah, but you usually win ID.

And thanks for the correction... I am embarrassed to admit, I did not know I was wrong until now. I will definitely work that into my vocabulary.

thanks for the correction.
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:53 PM   #44
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I find it surprising that demand for the M5 with manual transmission is now higher in the United States than it is in Europe.
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Old 06-24-2012, 12:46 AM   #45
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I rarely touch the clutch in stop and go traffic, so I have no issue with driving a manual in LA traffic at all. Just leave a gap and you can slow enough by engine braking before the car in front takes off again. Sure, there are some people who like to change lanes into your space, but not too many do that. This also gives better gas mileage than idling all the time. I get 30+ mpg in traffic.

But I also wouldn't mind having an auto/automated manual in a more luxurious GT car such as the M5. And I love my manual transmissions.
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Old 06-24-2012, 02:54 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aigochamaloh
I rarely touch the clutch in stop and go traffic, so I have no issue with driving a manual in LA traffic at all. Just leave a gap and you can slow enough by engine braking before the car in front takes off again. Sure, there are some people who like to change lanes into your space, but not too many do that. This also gives better gas mileage than idling all the time. I get 30+ mpg in traffic.

But I also wouldn't mind having an auto/automated manual in a more luxurious GT car such as the M5. And I love my manual transmissions.
Your claims that ppl in LA don't rush in to fill the gap you leave is entirely untrue. I've driven in rush hr traffic in LA over 5 years and drivers do it all the time. What you describe simply doesn't work.
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Old 06-24-2012, 09:54 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indocti Discant View Post
that was really nagging me... but I have often too many times opposed scrappydoo so kept quiet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
And thanks for the correction... I am embarrassed to admit, I did not know I was wrong until now. I will definitely work that into my vocabulary.

thanks for the correction.


Thank you for taking it so graciously, heh. That idiom is one of the most frequently mangled due to people mentally transcribing it from hearing other people saying it. The other leaders would have to be per se (incorrect: persay or per say) and beaucoup (incorrect: "bokou" and the like).
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Old 06-24-2012, 10:09 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zach9734

The only opinions that matter to BMW are the opinions of BMW shoppers that have the income to afford one and who are in the market. Same goes with all car makers. What you should criticize is how thousands of people have comments on just about every car and what they don't like about them. But if you ask 90% of them if they're even in the market to buy one, they say "No".
I agree w this and have made this point several times as well, to the armchair Internet idiots who cry and complain at news like Ferrari dropping MT entirely from their lineup of new cars because you know theyve all just cancelled their deposits on their upcoming Italia 475s

Maybe they should have all worked a little harder to become those high power lawyers and entertainment execs so they could actually speak w their consumer dollars.
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Old 06-24-2012, 10:20 AM   #49
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Yeah, but you usually win ID.

And thanks for the correction... I am embarrassed to admit, I did not know I was wrong until now. I will definitely work that into my vocabulary.

thanks for the correction.
winning means nothing unless the other person and myself understand what we mean.

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Old 06-24-2012, 10:44 AM   #50
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[img]http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/image_pictures/0078/7906/aw_jeez_not_this_****_again_crop_340x234.jpg[/img]
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